Strong's Greek Lexicon says it is.
What is the express image of God?
- Thread starter keypurr
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Strong's Greek Lexicon says it is.
keypurr
Well-known member
Many scholars question it my friend. Strong's is made by humans.
keypurr
Well-known member
True, but in what way?
keypurr
Well-known member
Not to worry about poor keypurr. It would be better for you to come up with some verses to rebut me. Any one can stand on the side and yell about poor keypurr.
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
What would the "express image of the invisible God be GM?
It is your turn to enlighten me if I need the help you say I need.
He personified the idea of Truth corresponding to what is real, to the reality within which we exist.
The image of Truth in our head is the sanity that allows us to live in the reality to which it corresponds, instead of the fantasy worlds constructed by liars and fools.
Do you understand that Truth, as an Ideal, is different from a particular truth, such as you are telling us you see in the way you understand the Bible?
Truth is the son of the ever unfolding next frame of Reality which presents us with "what is," the next moment of reality that tells us, "I am."
John1:1
In the beginning was the Word, (i.e.; Truth: [John 14:6]), and the Word, (Truth, itself), was (synonymous) with God, (i.e.; Reality), and the Word, (Truth: [John 14:6]), was (indistinguishable from Reality), God, (the almighty for all men).
2 "He," (Truth, the symbolic Word to come: [Jud 1:3]) was with God, (i.e.; the ever unfolding Reality), in the beginning, (that is, the initial unfolding of material Reality in what was the actual physical Creation).
Jn 1:3 ALL (real) THINGS, (phenomenally, i.e.; mentally), came into existence, (for man), through him, (i.e.; this concept of Truth), and apart from him, (this ideal of Truth), not even ONE (real) thing came into (actual) existence (for men).
All the churches which insist they have the truth about the Bible and hence, religion, are wrong since Truth is the God of the Bible,...
Truth is the "logos," or the one word that sums the Bible.
"I am the truth, and the way, and the life"....
I'm sort of with you , I think.
John 8:32
King James Version (KJV)
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:32
King James Version (KJV)
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
keypurr
Well-known member
I think I understand you, but I am not sure I agree. What we see as truth should be proven to pass our line of reason. It is not what the majority rule type of thing. Facts, statements and verses need to be understood as they appear in scripture. All men make mistakes yet all men think differently.
I have to go with what I see as the content of what I see and understand in the Bible.
keypurr
Well-known member
John1:1
In the beginning was the Word, (i.e.; Truth: [John 14:6]), and the Word, (Truth, itself), was (synonymous) with God, (i.e.; Reality), and the Word, (Truth: [John 14:6]), was (indistinguishable from Reality), God, (the almighty for all men).
2 "He," (Truth, the symbolic Word to come: [Jud 1:3]) was with God, (i.e.; the ever unfolding Reality), in the beginning, (that is, the initial unfolding of material Reality in what was the actual physical Creation).
Jn 1:3 ALL (real) THINGS, (phenomenally, i.e.; mentally), came into existence, (for man), through him, (i.e.; this concept of Truth), and apart from him, (this ideal of Truth), not even ONE (real) thing came into (actual) existence (for men).
All the churches which insist they have the truth about the Bible and hence, religion, are wrong since Truth is the God of the Bible,...
Truth is the "logos," or the one word that sums the Bible.
"I am the truth, and the way, and the life"....
Why do you trust Strong's?
Just because others do?
keypurr
Well-known member
Since I am free I must have truth.
Only if you know the truth. It is truth that makes you free.
I'm gonna post this here. I replied to this in another thread.
For your reference in the KJV
Hbr 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
"who being in the brightness of his glory" Who's glory?
express image is charaktēr not eikon image We find image of the invisible God in Col. "the image of the unseen"
Express image is seeing the character of real person inside
NASB
Hbr 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
That is what express image is "character" of God's true nature
For your reference in the KJV
Hbr 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
"who being in the brightness of his glory" Who's glory?
express image is charaktēr not eikon image We find image of the invisible God in Col. "the image of the unseen"
Express image is seeing the character of real person inside
NASB
Hbr 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
That is what express image is "character" of God's true nature
Isaiah 43:11 tells us that God is the Savior. It even explains how:
The ONE and only Spiritual God came into the world in the form of his ONE and only image... named LORD.
BTW, I don't talk about "invisible images." There is no such thing. I talk about visible images and the fact that God created ONE for himself to use.
Now, regarding the WORD of God mentioned in John 1 and whether it might should be interpreted as the PLAN of God , I really do not find it important to quibble over that language nuance... in this discussion.
The truth about God is this: HE is LIFE and he is invisible SPIRIT... therefore if any characteristic of his invisible nature is single out and mentioned, then we would have to say that what was singled out was God and was alive.
If God mentions his WORD or his PLAN coming into the world as the Savior or the Christ, then one would say that the WORD or PLAN is God, was with God, and is alive. This is one reason that the concept of God's living WORD works in helping us understand things about the Savior.
The WORD of God was with God and was God from eternity ... etc.
It was the WORD of God that came to men in the OT to speak to them and several times men mentioned that they SAW the WORD of God in a vision. That takes the identity of the WORD of God that existed before the world was up a notch for our understanding. This means that God already had a way of revealing the promised Savior visually even before the days of our Lord of flesh.
God even tells us something very interesting about the where abouts of the Savior before the days of the manifestation of the Christ/Savior in flesh.
Isaiah 45:15
Verily You art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Savior. The Christ/Savior was hidden within the invisible nature of the ONE and only Spiritual God ... but when God chose to reveal him, then He could.
I believe that the Angel of God/ aka / the Angel of the LORD was one way God could reveal the Savior.
The super-natural image of God (IOW an angelic presence) could be used to reveal the Father and the promised Savior. Ultimately the Savior was revealed as the image of God named Lord in a natural fleshly form rather than an angelic form. God manifested the Savior as mortal flesh so that IT could experience a physical death for us.
The image is NOT God ... but is a tool created by God for his personal plans and purposes. God was able to manifest IT of a super-natural essence and as a mortal fleshly essence as well. The level or intensity of ITs glory could also be manipulated by God as well.
Of course, the essence of flesh diminished the level of ITs glory when God appeared among men as the Savior/Emmanuel.
keypurr
Well-known member
It would be an exact copy in ALL ways, but it is a creation. The father was pleased that it had his fullness. He is the image of the invisible God. That makes him spirit like his father. Christ is much more than a man. Jesus was a man, Christ is spirit. Made so much higher than the angels, he created the angels.
The Glory of the son is a reflection of his father's. He is a copy of the father. But his father is the only true God. Christ has a God, his father does not. All power was given to Christ, he did not have it, he is not God. There is no God the son. There is One God and One Lord.
Hi Keypurr,
You wrote:
I have always understood that we are close on many issues and that is why I enjoy discussing this topic with you.
The Christ/Savior was not named Jesus until he was born of Mary ... but that does not take away from the fact that Jesus was the promised Savior.
So, how did God send his WORD into the world?
This is my best effort to explain it:
The WORD was mentioned many times in the OT as the voice of God that came and spoke unto men. The WORD was God and was with God and was used by God (audibly) to speak things into being and to communicate with mankind.
On more than one occasion men said that they saw the WORD of God in a vision ... so God already had a way to reveal "My Lord the WORD" unto men even before "My Lord the WORD" came into the world through Mary.
In the OT God was able to manifeste a visible bodily form through which HE spoke HIS WORD unto men. In the OT this form was super-natural.
In the NT God was able to manifest a visible bodily form through which HE spoke HIS WORD unto men. In the NT this form was a mortal natural presence.
God accomplished the fleshly aspect of his image by producing the form of the Lord through a human female. Somehow this process made the image of God a literal earthly man rather than a super-natural man.
God was able to taste fleshly death through the natural form of his image ... but being God, who is LIFE itself, HE was able to resurrect that body again to life and then glorify IT in heaven.
In fact, Jesus explains for us that he and the Father had shared the ONE glorious image of God even before the world was.
John 17:4,5
I (Lord Jesus the Christ) have glorified YOU (LORD God the Father) on the earth: I have finished the work which YOU gave me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify YOU me with YOUR own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
You see, I've come to the conclusion that when anyone saw the super-natural presence of the Father in the OT then they had seen the pre-incarnate super-natural glory of the Son as well... because being God - the Father and the Son shared the ONE presence whenever God wanted to come among men as Emmanuel.
Just as Jesus told us this about himself: When you have SEEN ME (seen the fleshly presence of the Lord Emmanuel) you have seen the FATHER as well... because, being God, he and the Father shared the ONE presence whenever God wanted to come among men as Emmanuel.
He and the Father are ONE God. Now, that is a whole new topic of how THEY can be HIM ... and HE can be THEY!
You wrote:
I have always understood that we are close on many issues and that is why I enjoy discussing this topic with you.
The Christ/Savior was not named Jesus until he was born of Mary ... but that does not take away from the fact that Jesus was the promised Savior.
So, how did God send his WORD into the world?
This is my best effort to explain it:
The WORD was mentioned many times in the OT as the voice of God that came and spoke unto men. The WORD was God and was with God and was used by God (audibly) to speak things into being and to communicate with mankind.
On more than one occasion men said that they saw the WORD of God in a vision ... so God already had a way to reveal "My Lord the WORD" unto men even before "My Lord the WORD" came into the world through Mary.
In the OT God was able to manifeste a visible bodily form through which HE spoke HIS WORD unto men. In the OT this form was super-natural.
In the NT God was able to manifest a visible bodily form through which HE spoke HIS WORD unto men. In the NT this form was a mortal natural presence.
God accomplished the fleshly aspect of his image by producing the form of the Lord through a human female. Somehow this process made the image of God a literal earthly man rather than a super-natural man.
God was able to taste fleshly death through the natural form of his image ... but being God, who is LIFE itself, HE was able to resurrect that body again to life and then glorify IT in heaven.
In fact, Jesus explains for us that he and the Father had shared the ONE glorious image of God even before the world was.
John 17:4,5
I (Lord Jesus the Christ) have glorified YOU (LORD God the Father) on the earth: I have finished the work which YOU gave me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify YOU me with YOUR own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
You see, I've come to the conclusion that when anyone saw the super-natural presence of the Father in the OT then they had seen the pre-incarnate super-natural glory of the Son as well... because being God - the Father and the Son shared the ONE presence whenever God wanted to come among men as Emmanuel.
Just as Jesus told us this about himself: When you have SEEN ME (seen the fleshly presence of the Lord Emmanuel) you have seen the FATHER as well... because, being God, he and the Father shared the ONE presence whenever God wanted to come among men as Emmanuel.
He and the Father are ONE God. Now, that is a whole new topic of how THEY can be HIM ... and HE can be THEY!
T L had said:
Well, that is what I try to tell you all the time.
God is an invisible spirit, but he created a visible image for his personal use. God then used that ONE image to manifest himself as the Father and then later as the Son. People had only seen the super-natural form of what they understood to be the Father until the time of Jesus.
At the time Jesus was among men it was the first time even anyone had seen the image of God manifested as God the Son of flesh.
John 1:18
No man at any time hath seen God the begotten Son ... but he (John the Baptist) hath declared Him.
God is a noun and the phrase "the begotten Son" is an appositive. This simply means that the appositive renames the noun in a way that it makes the identity of the noun more clear.
It's like saying for clarity:
Mary the mother of Jesus
Ronald Reagan the President of the United States
Bat Man a super hero
God the begotten Son
This makes it clear that it was God who had come as the begotten Son (and begotten means that God had finally come as his own Son and as the fleshly son born of Mary). God the Son was given the name of Jesus and became known as our Lord and Savior.
This was the manifestation of the "My Lord" that was mentioned by both King David and by Moses.
You asked:
Well, that is what I try to tell you all the time.
God is an invisible spirit, but he created a visible image for his personal use. God then used that ONE image to manifest himself as the Father and then later as the Son. People had only seen the super-natural form of what they understood to be the Father until the time of Jesus.
At the time Jesus was among men it was the first time even anyone had seen the image of God manifested as God the Son of flesh.
John 1:18
No man at any time hath seen God the begotten Son ... but he (John the Baptist) hath declared Him.
God is a noun and the phrase "the begotten Son" is an appositive. This simply means that the appositive renames the noun in a way that it makes the identity of the noun more clear.
It's like saying for clarity:
Mary the mother of Jesus
Ronald Reagan the President of the United States
Bat Man a super hero
God the begotten Son
This makes it clear that it was God who had come as the begotten Son (and begotten means that God had finally come as his own Son and as the fleshly son born of Mary). God the Son was given the name of Jesus and became known as our Lord and Savior.
This was the manifestation of the "My Lord" that was mentioned by both King David and by Moses.
keypurr
Well-known member
Friend, you have given me a lot to ponder over.
It is not easy to get into the spiritual world and fully digest it. You present an interesting view.
The answer to seek is:
How did an infinite Spiritual God manage to come into the finite created world - that he made?
keypurr
Well-known member
Right Divider
Body part
As I told you before keypurr, you have an overly literal idea of what individual words mean and you let that confuse you as to what the Bible text actually MEANS. Words to NOT have meaning ALL BY THEMSELVES. Their meaning is always within the context that they are used. Is Jesus made of wood?
Joh 10:9 KJV
(9) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.