ECT What is Preterism

[musterion]

I may be off on this - my understanding is that, at least as viewed by some within Preterism "that which is perfect" refers both to the complete canon of Scripture and to the return of Christ; both of which they assert took place near about or in, 70AD.

One of their bigger names - J.S. Russell, held that with said return, the more elite of the Christians back then were Raptured to Heaven.

Just goes to show all Tet's nonsense about Darby's supposed Rapture invention, or what have you, not only points its remaining fingers right back at one of their main giants, but has him concluding an idea not much different from the JW's 144,000 elite.

It's all fascinating to me.

A fascinating mess, all right.

 

[Danoh]

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?118282-A-Question-Preterists-Can-t-Seem-to-Answer

 

[Tambora]

I may be off on this - my understanding is that, at least as viewed by some within Preterism "that which is perfect" refers both to the complete canon of Scripture and to the return of Christ; both of which they assert took place near about or in, 70AD.

One of their bigger names - J.S. Russell, held that with said return, the more elite of the Christians back then were Raptured to Heaven.

Just goes to show all Tet's nonsense about Darby's supposed Rapture invention, or what have you, not only points its remaining fingers right back at one of their main giants, but has him concluding an idea not much different from the JW's 144,000 elite.

It's all fascinating to me.

The preterist [FONT=&quot]Ed Stevens say about the same thing in his work "Silence Demands a Rapture", in which he says the reason there is silence about it is because they were gone - raptured!



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[musterion]

The preterist Ed Stevens say about the same thing in his work "Silence Demands a Rapture", in which he says the reason there is silence about it is because they were gone - raptured!

Leaving believers since then with absolutely no hope. The Return is past; resurrections are past; rapture is past. Nothing left but an ever worsening world under a useless God who has done all He's going to do, and an invisible mute King who may as well never came back for all the difference He makes.

Never realized until this moment just how depressing the conclusions of preterism actually are.

May as well rename it Christian nihilism.

 

[Tambora]

Leaving believers since then with absolutely no hope. The Return is past; resurrections are past; rapture is past. Nothing left but an ever worsening world under a useless God who has done all He's going to do, and an invisible mute King who may as well never came back for all the difference He makes.

Never realized until this moment just how depressing the conclusions of preterism actually are.

May as well rename it Christian nihilism.

It's flabbergasting how they like to teach that the destruction/wrath is realized as seen/literal/physical.
But the peace, safety, and a righteous government is all unseen/symbolic/spiritual.
The wrath is real, the blessing isn't.
As gods go, it's a real let down.

 

[andyc]

I think preterism and dispensationalism comes from the desire to want to know what hasn't yet been fully revealed.
There are serious problem verses with both views, hence the reason why discussions get heated.

 

[Interplanner]

Or they are both trying to resolve how the world is supposed to be perfect one day.

Well, I'm not depressed because 2 Peter 3 says the NHNE will be home to righteousness.

As for the direction of the world, I'm only depressed about the reporting of credit. All the good in the world right now is due to the Christian beliefs and faith. All the evil is due to enmity against it, but which claims to have made the world more fair and safer. 'Marxism is a cult of Christianity' but they have the media outlets, and keep claiming to have produced fairness and safety through centralized government. Marxism believes it is supposed to be in charge of capital to socialize it. But this ruins character, and it never works. (Stalinism just went straight at an equal society and has neither capital or happiness as a result. It couldn't bear to admit that capital was needed.) At least Marxism admits that it 'needs' the free market for capital to be accumulated. That means there is hope that it will fail as it should.

 

[God's Truth]

Or they are both trying to resolve how the world is supposed to be perfect one day.

Well, I'm not depressed because 2 Peter 3 says the NHNE will be home to righteousness.

As for the direction of the world, I'm only depressed about the reporting of credit. All the good in the world right now is due to the Christian beliefs and faith. All the evil is due to enmity against it, but which claims to have made the world more fair and safer. 'Marxism is a cult of Christianity' but they have the media outlets, and keep claiming to have produced fairness and safety through centralized government. Marxism believes it is supposed to be in charge of capital to socialize it. But this ruins character, and it never works. (Stalinism just went straight at an equal society and has neither capital or happiness as a result. It couldn't bear to admit that capital was needed.) At least Marxism admits that it 'needs' the free market for capital to be accumulated. That means there is hope that it will fail as it should.

Those saved ARE resurrected now, but there still has to be a NEW EARTH literally, because this world STILL DECAYS.

Romans 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.


Did you read that?

The earth is still decaying. We still decay. Preterism is right about many things, but not about the end.

 

[God's Truth]

We were not meant to die physically.

The whole world decays still...and that is because of sin.

Since all humans, and the whole creation still decay, it is still under the power of the devil.

Even though all things are put under Jesus---not all things are shown to be put under Jesus.

Jesus conquered death and took the power from the devil.

When Jesus comes again we will have our physical bodies redeemed, and we will also have a new earth that does not decay.

 

[God's Truth]

Hebrews 2:8 and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.

 

[God's Truth]

If it were just spiritual and nothing physical, as the Preterists say, then why does Paul say we do not SEE everything subject to him?

 

[God's Truth]

I have heard preterists say that we did not get resurrected until after 70 a.d ; but Paul says when he dies (which he did physically die before the destruction of the temple) that he will be with the Lord; and, the Bible shows that as soon as we are saved, we are resurrected spiritually to heaven. True that we do not 'see' our resurrection with Christ until after we die physically, but there still is a physical resurrection of our bodies.

In addition, there is still a change that will have to happen to this physical, earthly world...all things change, and this world must also literally be changed to that which is spiritual.

 

[Interplanner]

Those saved ARE resurrected now, but there still has to be a NEW EARTH literally, because this world STILL DECAYS.

Romans 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.


Did you read that?

The earth is still decaying. We still decay. Preterism is right about many things, but not about the end.

Your last line is right. They may believe that the new creation is already in existence in Christ, but they don't seem to realize that must be manifested one day as in 2 Pet 3.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

In a nutshell as to these nuts - that the Bible appears to contradict itself, so it's off to sources outside Scripture for one's answers and anyone who actually believes Matt. 4:4 and 2 Tim. 3:16-17, in other words; who simply relies in faith on Scripture alone for the answers to such seeming contradictions is a fool.

They will now post attempted, vain, failed rebuttals proving this very fact.

Given this "what are the beliefs" after that one, are a total waste of time to bother with.

The problem with believing that scripture contradicts itself is that it shows a serious case of blindness, deafness and ignorance.

I was trying to share the Gospel with a Brother in humanity that was bathed in the doctrine of a church that adds books as required reading. He called their author a prophet. I kept turning to scripture that showed the error.

He looked up at me after a couple hours of interest and said; "so that's why people say the bible has been ruined over time, now I can see it. I'm thankful for my prophet."

I was frustrated, but left the matter alone from that day forward.

Not only do these people miss out on the true joy of the gospel, but they don't understand that God can answer scriptural questions from the Holy Spirit within.


Sent from my iPad using TOL Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

 

[Interplanner]

The problem with believing that scripture contradicts itself is that it shows a serious case of blindness, deafness and ignorance.

I was trying to share the Gospel with a Brother in humanity that was bathed in the doctrine of a church that adds books as required reading. He called their author a prophet. I kept turning to scripture that showed the error.

He looked up at me after a couple hours of interest and said; "so that's why people say the bible has been ruined over time, now I can see it. I'm thankful for my prophet."

I was frustrated, but left the matter alone from that day forward.

Not only do these people miss out on the true joy of the gospel, but they don't understand that God can answer scriptural questions from the Holy Spirit within.


Sent from my iPad using TOL Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

All D'ist thought (inc. MAD) ends in contradiction, so I avoid it. I stick with the self-organizing passages themselves for answers.

 

[Danoh]

All D'ist thought (inc. MAD) ends in contradiction, so I avoid it. I stick with the self-organizing passages themselves for answers.

You THINK you do.

Fact is, you don't even know the self-organizing principle that MAD is actually based on.

Let alone; the passages.

Even some MADs forget it, from time to time.

What hope do you have, lol.

Took me a minute myself.

But after that; the Scripture was never again the same ol closed book.

Tons of questions clearing up even before I'd contemplate them.

Automatic understanding kicking in.

Just like a great, genuine, organizing principle is meant to behave.

Then again, as you and others often prove - false positives work in the same way :crackup:

I know... you're not going to let that stop you from sticking both your foot and your leg in your mouth when it comes to your supposed expert opinion against MAD.

Seriously HOW do you expect to be taken seriously if you don't even know, let alone understand; what you would debate against?

Okay, not seriously :chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, they said it was to solve James 2 about faith and works. To 'solve' that they found all kinds of evolving gospels in early Acts.

 

[Interplanner]

I am not here to solve MAD or any systems like it. I'm here to enjoy, embrace, fellowship that everything promised to the fathers was fulfilled in the resurrection so that there can be justification from our sins.

 

[Danoh]

I am not here to solve MAD or any systems like it. I'm here to enjoy, embrace, fellowship that everything promised to the fathers was fulfilled in the resurrection so that there can be justification from our sins.

First you misrepresent MAD and then, in this very next post, you talk of enjoying, and embracing, and fellowship...

Bats in the belfry; bats in the belfry - WROCK! WROCK! Never more; never more...

 

[ClimateSanity]

Took me a minute myself.

But after that; the Scripture was never again the same ol closed book.

Tons of questions clearing up even before I'd contemplate them.

Automatic understanding kicking in.

Just like a great, genuine, organizing principle is meant to behave.

Once it sunk in in 1997 in Chicago at a Grace Church, I had the same experience and I have never gone back to the old way.