God's Truth
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God told Moses to speak to the rock. Moses struck the rock.
What is faith?
- Thread starter iouae
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God told Moses to speak to the rock. Moses struck the rock.
Good post
iouae
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Num 20
10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.
We will just have to take out of this passage what we will
I'll throw this in every few pages or so.
Hebrews 11:1 KJV - Hebrews 11:2-3 KJV -
Hebrews 11:1 KJV - Hebrews 11:2-3 KJV -
God's Truth
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Num 20
10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.
We will just have to take out of this passage what we will
Belief and obedience go together. The scripture proves that fact.
God told Moses to speak to the rock. Moses did not believe and obey God.
Numbers 20:8 Take the rod, and gather you the assembly together, you, and Aaron your brother, and speak unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth its water, and you shall bring forth to them water out of the rock: so you shall give the congregation and their animals drink.
Numbers 20:11 Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.
iouae
Well-known member
My private opinion is that God WANTED Joshua to take over.
Proof is the good job Israel did under Joshua.
So God was letting Moses down gently by not saying "You know what Moses, you bring out the worst in the people. Your leadership style kinda sucks. Its time for a better leader to take over, and there will be no room for you looking over his shoulders. And by the way, Aaron has to go too".
Instead, God points to the TINY sin of Moses and blames that, so Moses' LARGE self-esteem can remain intact.
But please ignore what goes on in my head.
Proof is the good job Israel did under Joshua.
So God was letting Moses down gently by not saying "You know what Moses, you bring out the worst in the people. Your leadership style kinda sucks. Its time for a better leader to take over, and there will be no room for you looking over his shoulders. And by the way, Aaron has to go too".
Instead, God points to the TINY sin of Moses and blames that, so Moses' LARGE self-esteem can remain intact.
But please ignore what goes on in my head.
Num 20
10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.
We will just have to take out of this passage what we will
There is more and it appears your first comment was correct.
Psalms 106:32-33 KJV
32. They angered him also at the waters of strife, so that it went ill with Moses for their sakes:
33. Because they provoked his spirit, so that he spake unadvisedly with his lips.
iouae
Well-known member
God's Truth
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We have to be careful not to add to God's word.
Look what happened to Aaron's sons when they offered fire that God did not command.
In the Septuagint, Joshua, (which name is sometimes rendered Jesus because it is the same in Greek) did not go out from the tabernacle-tent of Moses. Think about that symbolism and let it sink in. :chuckle:
EDIT:
Exodus 33:7-11 Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
7. And Moses took his tabernacle and pitched it without the camp, at a distance from the camp; and it was called the Tabernacle of Testimony: and it came to pass that every one that sought the Lord went forth to the tabernacle which was without the camp.
8. And whenever Moses went into the tabernacle without the camp, all the people stood every one watching by the doors of his tent; and when Moses departed, they took notice until he entered into the tabernacle.
9. And when Moses entered into the tabernacle, the pillar of the cloud descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and God talked to Moses.
10. And all the people saw the pillar of the cloud standing by the door of the tabernacle, and all the people stood and worshipped every one at the door of his tent.
11. And the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as if one should speak to his friend; and he retired into the camp: but his servant Joshua the son of Naue, a young man, departed not forth from the tabernacle.
http://biblehub.com/sep/exodus/33.htm
iouae
Well-known member
I am only sharing with you what I think privately, warning you not to believe me. There never is a sin for thinking something is there?
Especially thinking of the motivations behind what Moses did and God's response.
And I know God loves us all so much He has nothing against us trying all possible explanations out in our heads.
Now it would be wrong of me to preach that when God tells you to speak to a rock you should smite it twice. Now that would be disobedience.
God's Truth
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I do believe our thoughts can be sinful.
It's a good thing we can always repent and find mercy.
iouae
Well-known member
Exodus 33:11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Is there meant to be any significance to this?
Could it imply that Joshua was closer to God than Moses?
Moses visited God. Joshua stayed with God?
iouae
Well-known member
Again - just to let you into my private thoughts for a second...
I am not big on this whole guilt trip thing.
I don't think it accomplishes much.
I think what I like, and outside the box with zero guilt.
Perhaps it is because I am a middle child.
I have even heard preachers say we should repent of the evil we dream. That is hilarious to me.
My reading of the Bible is that the Biblical term "Repent" has almost nothing to do with feelings of guilt.
It has EVERYTHING to do with changing one's lifestyle.
This preoccupation with feelings of guilt is a modern indulgence IMHO.
You must have posted this while I was editing my previous post.
Take look at what is written in the Septuagint now quoted above.
iouae
Well-known member
You must have posted this while I was editing my previous post.
Take look at what is written in the Septuagint now quoted above.
Joshua was the right choice, as history was to prove.
Joshua 24:31 And Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that overlived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the Lord, that he had done for Israel.
Judges 2:7 And the people served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that outlived Joshua, who had seen all the great works of the Lord, that he did for Israel.
God's Truth
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Don't you know we are told our thoughts could be sinful?
Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve."
Jeremiah 11:20
But you, LORD Almighty, who judge righteously and test the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance on them, for to you I have committed my cause.
Revelation 2:23
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
iouae
Well-known member
Even two of the scriptures you quoted show it is the DEEDS which proceed from the mind which are the problem.
That said, it is very wrong to fantasise about sinning.
I am not talking about that. We were speaking about God's motivation for firing Moses.