ECT What is better about D'ism?

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Clarification: 2 Pet 3 is the longest, most complete ORDINARY, NON-SYMBOLIC passage, when placed beside I Cor 15, Rom 2, Heb 9, Acts 17 about the coming day of judgement. There is nothing Judaic in the events of the 2nd coming.
Your lack of respect for the ENTIRE Bible is astonishing.

So SYMBOLISM gives you problems? I thought that you were a "grammar scholar".

I do not source things out of the Rev, though it helps secondarily. As for Isaiah, most of it is describing what would happen in Christ and his mission, as it says.
More lack of IP understanding.... well done.

Isaiah 60 and Rev 21 are practically identical in their descriptions of the NHNE that you're normally so fond of.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Your lack of respect for the ENTIRE Bible is astonishing.

So SYMBOLISM gives you problems? I thought that you were a "grammar scholar".


More lack of IP understanding.... well done.

Isaiah 60 and Rev 21 are practically identical in their descriptions of the NHNE that you're normally so fond of.




I don't put symbolic on the same level as ordinary, didactic explanations, no. It has been a logical rule of interp since the Reformation.

I have gone through the Rev and accounted for personnel and materiel, and when I got half way through, I was at -275% and stopped doing that. Obviously, that is not what it meant to do.

Yes Is 60 and Rev 21 are similar and non-Judaic and not part of this earth. There is no such description of a Judaic millenium on this earth.
 

Right Divider

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I don't put symbolic on the same level as ordinary, didactic explanations, no. It has been a logical rule of interp since the Reformation.

I have gone through the Rev and accounted for personnel and materiel, and when I got half way through, I was at -275% and stopped doing that. Obviously, that is not what it meant to do.

Yes Is 60 and Rev 21 are similar and non-Judaic and not part of this earth. There is no such description of a Judaic millenium on this earth.
The millennium is Christ ruling over Israel and in turn the entire planet called earth.

Here is a little taste of His Kingdom:

Luke 22:29-30 (AKJV/PCE)
(22:29) And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; (22:30) That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Perhaps you think that they'll be eating and drinking on Mars.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The millennium is Christ ruling over Israel and in turn the entire planet called earth.

Here is a little taste of His Kingdom:

Luke 22:29-30 (AKJV/PCE)
(22:29) And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; (22:30) That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Perhaps you think that they'll be eating and drinking on Mars.






No I never use Mars when referring to Christian fellowship. He meant they would be leaders in his church and his cup to drink was the sacrifice of their lives for the mission.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
So here we have you saying he is ruling over Israel, but yesterday you denied that you ever meant the nation of Israel and said you were always only referring to Jewish believers. Which is it? There is no such vision in the NT that Jewish believers (apparently brought back to life) will be in a different segregated 'heaven'.
 

Right Divider

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So here we have you saying he is ruling over Israel, but yesterday you denied that you ever meant the nation of Israel and said you were always only referring to Jewish believers. Which is it?
Once AGAIN, you are either confused or lying.

QUOTE the POSTS so that we can see for sure what was said, because I NEVER said what you CLAIM that I said.

You are a liar and a deceiver that needs to get saved and BELIEVE the truth.

There is no such vision in the NT that Jewish believers (apparently brought back to life) will be in a different segregated 'heaven'.
They will be resurrected on the earth. Read Ezekiel 37, but it's probably too "symbolic" for you to understand.

Ezek 37:11-14 (AKJV/PCE)
(37:11) ¶ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. (37:12) Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. (37:13) And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, (37:14) And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
You just said yesterday that you never meant unbelieving Jews were the seed of Abraham in rom 9:6. It was an exclusion not an inclusion. I believe it was an inclusion, because the plain meaning of 9:24 is the inclusion of non-Jews and 4 OT passages are used to support that.

"...even us, whom he called, not only from the Jews but also from the gentiles?" But all believers of the Gospel.
 

Right Divider

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You just said yesterday that you never meant unbelieving Jews were the seed of Abraham in rom 9:6. It was an exclusion not an inclusion. I believe it was an inclusion, because the plain meaning of 9:24 is the inclusion of non-Jews and 4 OT passages are used to support that.

"...even us, whom he called, not only from the Jews but also from the gentiles?" But all believers of the Gospel.
Your lying way just keep going strong.

God does call ALL to come to faith. That is NOT the same as cancelling all of the promises made to Israel.

Why did God SEPARATE Israel from the rest of the world in the first place? Start a thread on that.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Your lying way just keep going strong.

God does call ALL to come to faith. That is NOT the same as cancelling all of the promises made to Israel.

Why did God SEPARATE Israel from the rest of the world in the first place? Start a thread on that.





You are so confusing. So now we are back to all of Israel--the DNA Israel--getting the promises? Wasn't it just for those who believe on Christ whom Abraham saw?

But there is no refuting Rom 9:24. It is about both and both is "us" and it is faith that creates a son of Abraham, not a sexual reproduction.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Your lying way just keep going strong.

God does call ALL to come to faith. That is NOT the same as cancelling all of the promises made to Israel.

Why did God SEPARATE Israel from the rest of the world in the first place? Start a thread on that.





God worked with Israel to eventually launch the mission. You might say it started by getting Abraham out of Asia to the place where all 3 continents converge, so that when people went home from Pentecost, they went to every nation under heaven.

The gospel was announced in advance to Abraham: All nations will be blessed through you, and he (God) was referring to justification by faith, Gal 3:8, the official interp of the Genesis promise. It was about justification by faith in Christ. That's why Acts 13's sermon says the same thing. All of the promises have been fulfilled in the resurrection. The resurrection being the proof that there is justification from sins.
 

Danoh

New member
God worked with Israel to eventually launch the mission. You might say it started by getting Abraham out of Asia to the place where all 3 continents converge, so that when people went home from Pentecost, they went to every nation under heaven.

The gospel was announced in advance to Abraham: All nations will be blessed through you, and he (God) was referring to justification by faith, Gal 3:8, the official interp of the Genesis promise. It was about justification by faith in Christ. That's why Acts 13's sermon says the same thing. All of the promises have been fulfilled in the resurrection. The resurrection being the proof that there is justification from sins.

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

You make the same mistake on that passage as the Acts 28ers within Dispensationalism.

That passage is not focusing on what was preached unto Abraham.

Rather, on the fact that Abraham believed what had been preached unto him way back then.

He only mentions it because he is pointing out to these Law bound Galatians that the very father of the circumcision who now have them in bondage under the Law; Abraham himself: had operated on the principle of faith alone, that day, way back when.

It is asserting the exact same principle that Paul has been preaching all along, and that he will reiterate some ten years or so later, in Romans 4.

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Verse 8 is actually a repetition, in a sense, of the principle mentioned in verse 6.

Verse 6 is the principle and verse 8 is the context in which Abraham had operated under said principle.

Sort of like saying "You know how back when God said such and so to Abraham, and he believed Him, so God counted His faith for righteousness - well it's the same principle....

3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Paul will later summarize all that...

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

That last passage is UNDERSTOOD as "For we through what the Spirit has accomplished from the very moment in which we believed Christ died for our sins, wait or confidently rest in the hope that is now ours as a result - the righteousness which is now ours by faith, or from the very moment in which we believed.

Note..

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Nope, IP, you can keep your notion that Abraham had believed this as some sort of a "one size fits all" the same exact, good news, across the board.

Acts 17:11,12.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Putting a question here because it has to do with the 'better' theme of Hebrews. I'll also be putting it in 'Hebrews ranks angels, priests, covenants.'

Do Dispensationalists think that 'salvation' (soterian) in heb 9:28 is a restored Judaism/Judea, since 'bearing sin' would have addressed the Gospel event?
 

Danoh

New member
Putting a question here because it has to do with the 'better' theme of Hebrews. I'll also be putting it in 'Hebrews ranks angels, priests, covenants.'

Do Dispensationalists think that 'salvation' (soterian) in heb 9:28 is a restored Judaism/Judea, since 'bearing sin' would have addressed the Gospel event?

No Dispy thinks that restoring Judaea, or what have you, is salvation.

:doh:

Rom. 5:8
 

Right Divider

Body part
You are so confusing. So now we are back to all of Israel--the DNA Israel--getting the promises? Wasn't it just for those who believe on Christ whom Abraham saw?
God chose Israel.... period.

That some did NOT believe and are cut off for the unbelief does NOT change God's choosing.

Why did God separate Israel from the other people of the world?

Lev 20:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:24) But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I [am] the LORD your God, which have separated you from [other] people.

I guess that you ignore that verse because it includes the land.
 

Right Divider

Body part
God worked with Israel to eventually launch the mission. You might say it started by getting Abraham out of Asia to the place where all 3 continents converge, so that when people went home from Pentecost, they went to every nation under heaven.

The gospel was announced in advance to Abraham: All nations will be blessed through you, and he (God) was referring to justification by faith, Gal 3:8, the official interp of the Genesis promise. It was about justification by faith in Christ. That's why Acts 13's sermon says the same thing. All of the promises have been fulfilled in the resurrection. The resurrection being the proof that there is justification from sins.
OK, so the rest of the numerous promises made to Israel are just silently cancelled..... got it.
 

Right Divider

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Putting a question here because it has to do with the 'better' theme of Hebrews. I'll also be putting it in 'Hebrews ranks angels, priests, covenants.'
Since the gentiles NEVER had a priesthood, how can they have a "better" one?
Since the gentiles NEVER had a covenant, how can they have a "better" one?
Etc. etc. etc.

Do Dispensationalists think that 'salvation' (soterian) in heb 9:28 is a restored Judaism/Judea, since 'bearing sin' would have addressed the Gospel event?
There is MORE than one TYPE of salvation in the Bible, "grammar scholar".

The salvation referred to in Hebrews 9:28 is a YET future salvation.

Paul tells us that we are SAVED now (Rom 5:11).

Another example of "saved" is in Luke 1:71ff
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Since the gentiles NEVER had a priesthood, how can they have a "better" one?
Since the gentiles NEVER had a covenant, how can they have a "better" one?
Etc. etc. etc.


There is MORE than one TYPE of salvation in the Bible, "grammar scholar".

The salvation referred to in Hebrews 9:28 is a YET future salvation.

Paul tells us that we are SAVED now (Rom 5:11).

Another example of "saved" is in Luke 1:71ff[/QUO



OK, so answer the question and get out of your horrible mood.

Do you think the salvation of that verse is the erasing of debt or is it something else , and specifically for Jewish believers?
 
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