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The US in that scripture does NOT refer to Israel, oh confused one.
ECT What gospel was Paul saved under?
- Thread starter Lazy afternoon
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You believe the Father cast away his firstborn, right?
Do you believe Jesus was sent to tell Israel they had been disowned by their Father?
We are Israel, the Father's firstborn.
Right Divider
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I believe what the scripture says and not the many "novel ideas" about what it says.
Rom 11:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin. (11:2) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, (11:3) Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Provide some scripture and we can discuss it.
Novel....
Interplanner
Well-known member
Interplanner
Well-known member
Except that ch 9-10 was about him speaking to the Gentiles and in ch 15's conference he says God sent him to the Gentiles.
It is if you understand what Paul was saying. Jesus made it clear that he was not sent to loosen the law, but to make it complete, to make it full.
How? How did he do that?
He did that by installing a better priesthood. (Hebrews 7:11)
And Israel was changed from the letter of the law to the spirit of the law. (Romans 7:6)
Israel was the Father's firstborn. Israel is the Father's firstborn. Israel will be the Father's firstborn.
Did Paul go to Rome and establish a Gentile church? Is that what you are saying?
Interplanner
Well-known member
He is trying to keep a tidy 2P2P Bible and it does not exist. Acts 9, 10 and 15 have Peter reaching out directly to non-Jews, and the intention anyway of Pentecost was that massive amounts of people in all nations would hear about the sacrifice and glory of Christ.
2P2P Biblicism is cult from the 1800s like Mormonism.
Leave it to the Preterist, Interplanner to continue to ask that MADs play nice even as he hurls derisives like "cult" at members of the Body.
Hypocrite.
And you would link Dispys to time of Mormonisn's origin even as you ignore that one of the men most highly respected by your mess - Preterism - J.S. Russell - held to a notion very similar to the Jehovah's Witness 144, O00 bunk.
In his fool view, only the higher echolon of saints were raptured back around 70AD.
He even cites as one evidence James' "thousands of Jews that believe..."
He wrote that nonsense around the same time that Darby was writing.
And Peter did not preach to Gentiles in Acts 9. That was Acts 10.
You are ever sloppy.
Individuals being what any school of thought is comprised of, it depends on which MADist you ask.
I'd say no - I hold that the Romans were already members of the Body.
Others will say otherwise.
These kinds of different understandings are found within all schools of thought.
As with all understandings within Christianity, it's best you not allow yourself to view all who hold to a particular school of thought as holding to the same understanding on all things.
Interplanner
Well-known member
When Paul wrote Romans, the evicted Jews (Acts 18) had returned. When they came back they thought the Gentiles Christians would be doing poorly. They were not and some of the Jews were more complicated than they needed to be , ch 14.
Paul was saved under the one and only everlasting Gospel of Christ, as the church began under in Acts chapter 2.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Jud 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Jud 1:2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
LA
Lazy sure fits you...
Peter is preaching the 2nd Coming of Christ to Israel in His wrath; it is why they were pricked in their heart, and what he meant by save yourselves from this untoward generation (Israel).
Save yourselves how?
By doing the opposite of said UNTOWARD generation: repent, or turn BACK to TOWARD the God of our fathers and His Christ. He elaborates further on that in Acts 3.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
He is telling them the man they crucified was the Lord's Christ.
And in Israel's Prophetic timeline that means that Israel is in her Prophesied "last days" "the wrath to come."
You remain WILLFULLY incompetent on these issues.
Peter is preaching the 2nd Coming of Christ to Israel in His wrath; it is why they were pricked in their heart, and what he meant by save yourselves from this untoward generation (Israel).
Save yourselves how?
By doing the opposite of said UNTOWARD generation: repent, or turn BACK to TOWARD the God of our fathers and His Christ. He elaborates further on that in Acts 3.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
He is telling them the man they crucified was the Lord's Christ.
And in Israel's Prophetic timeline that means that Israel is in her Prophesied "last days" "the wrath to come."
You remain WILLFULLY incompetent on these issues.
Interplanner
Well-known member
There is debate though about how far back the quote of Samuel was reaching. Did he mean that Samuel warned of disbelief after the Gospel or the disbelief that was part of it? "These days" are the present with the spirit at work. This is what Israel was supposed to become and to be in the mission of the gospel, to bless all nations. Not all of it goes directly to the 2nd coming, which was thought to be in that generation in any case.
Your prophetic timeline missed the mission, as far as I can tell. It was in no sense an after thought nor interposition nor Plan B nor 'mystery.'
1_Israel's CONTINUED unbelief INTO the days of Matthew thru Acts disbelief was prophesied.
The Lord noted he spoke in parables because Israel was still in the unbelief of Isaiah's day.
Stephan relates their continuing in their father's same failure.
At the end of Acts Paul leaves Israel in that same state of unbelief Isaiah had had to pronounce against his nation.
2_In Acts 1, Peter relates in Acts 1 that Israel is in her last days in the same section in which he relates the various signs to follow in the heavens.
3_I have never viewed things as a plan A and plan B anymore than I view the Father's witness in the Prophets: the OT; the Son's witness in Mtt-John; or the Spirit's witness in Acts as some sort of plan A, B, and C.
Rather, they are Progressive Revelation of the Father's Will as He unfolds it.
As Daniel was given revelation none before him had been given, as John was given revelation that Daniel was not given, so with Paul.
That is Progressive Revelation.
Doughhead fits you.
No. Peter is speaking of Christs first coming. They were pricked in their heart because they went along with the crowd in the dark day.
Yes.
No.
Peter taught the continuation of the elect of Israel as the NT church, which would continue right up to the second coming of Christ, when He would gather them to Himself--
Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
Deu 30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
When you stop adding your dumb theories to Gods word then you might learn something.
LA
Interplanner
Well-known member
On "save yourselves from this generation" you ultimately have to ask how a generation X000 years in the future saves themselves...from something going on right then. There is therefore this sense to "saving": that, having failed in the crucifixion, they could at least 'redeem' themselves by becoming the ministers of the new covenant and its Gospel.
These verses apply throughout this age and the next.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
In an attempt to merely compare notes, if I am not mistaken; even you assert the Lord's return has not yet taken place. That, as you assert; it was delayed (your Matt. 23b).
In this, you are asserting a version of a delay in some things.
Normally, a delay means a clock has temporarily stopped, even as time outside said clock ticks on.
As when aspects of what Daniel had been made privy to underwent many a century sealed.
Now, if you wish to make with the derisive labels in your reply, no problem; I'll simply jump down your throat about that, once more: if that is where you want to go.
It takes two to make an enemy.
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