What ever happened to...

[patrick jane]

Is "punk" necessary?

Troll. He said I had low intelligence, can you read?

 

[meshak]

Troll. He said I had low intelligence, can you read?

You see, you abuse the word "troll" on a regular bases. what you are doing is troll.

That was all tongue and cheek comments.

The OP has been insulted and ridiculed by most of you.

So I can see why he said that.

 

[Bright Raven]

Correct. Correct.Not quite correct.Correct.Correct.Basically an incorrect assumption.

Explain why you believe part of the answer to be incorrect.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

If Jesus is the only way to Heaven:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Then where did all the people who lived before Jesus' death and all the people who had never heard the Good News go?

After all it was not there fault they didn't hear the Good News. So where did they go Heaven or Hell?

And if they went to Hell is this fair? And why is it fair?

They went to Sheol. When Jesus opened the gates of heaven they then went to heaven. Very simple.

Jesus preached to them in Sheol between the Good Friday crucifixion and the Sunday resurrection.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

They went to Sheol.

Yes that is true.

When Jesus opened the gates of heaven they then went to heaven. Very simple.

Nope, that did not happen and there are no verses to support your theory.

Jesus preached to them in Sheol between the Good Friday crucifixion and the Sunday resurrection.

Yes that bit is also true.

 

[chair]

I know too much but the problem is communicating that information in a way that people of lower intelligence like yourself can understand. As I say face to face is much easier as the written word alone only gives about 5% of the amount of information compared to face to face.

Here he goes again.

 

[God's Truth]

If Jesus is the only way to Heaven:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Then where did all the people who lived before Jesus' death and all the people who had never heard the Good News go?

After all it was not there fault they didn't hear the Good News. So where did they go Heaven or Hell?

And if they went to Hell is this fair? And why is it fair?

The Truth was taught before Jesus came. He is the Truth and was here from the beginning.
No one was made perfect until the Truth, Jesus Christ, shed his blood on the cross.

A person could be saved and a child of God before Jesus came; and, when that person died, they went to Abraham's bosom.

Before Jesus died, the saved went to paradise, which was a place near God; after Jesus came and shed his blood, we are made perfect and are put in God.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

The Truth was taught before Jesus came.

Find a verse that says that Jesus was the way in the OT! You are imagining it because your theology is based on your feelings.

He is the Truth and was here from the beginning.
No one was made perfect until the Truth, Jesus Christ, shed his blood on the cross.

That's right,
perfect through faith in Jesus' shed blood. Which totally contradicts what you meant above.

A person could be saved and a child of God before Jesus came; and, when that person died,

That is a lie straight from the devil. Find a verse that says that. You can't.

they went to Abraham's bosom.

Before Jesus died, the saved went to paradise,

That's right but

which was a place near God

No it was not. It was part of Hell as Jesus described. There are three Paradises described in the Bible; one in Hell, one in Heaven and Eden.

; after Jesus came and shed his blood, we are made perfect and are put in God.

Only for those who truly believe Jesus is the ONLY WAY!:

Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Even the most righteous acts of the most righteous person is to God but rags with a woman's period on them.

John 10:8
All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

Jesus tell it like it is, even the most honoured of the Old testament 'holy' people are but thieves and robbers compared to Jesus.

Isaiah 55:9
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

There is no comparison between man and God and Jesus is God. Without Jesus all are lost, including everyone before Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Explain why you believe part of the answer to be incorrect.

I will but not yet.

 

[patrick jane]

I will but not yet.

Why are you paying heed to seducing spirits? I ended our friendship, good job.


1 Timothy 4:1-6 KJV - [FONT=&quot]Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.[/FONT]

Romans 16:17-18 KJV - [FONT=&quot]Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of
the simple.

2 Timothy 4:3-5 KJV - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry[/FONT]

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Why are you paying heed to seducing spirits? I ended our friendship, good job.


1 Timothy 4:1-6 KJV - [FONT="]Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]3 [/B][/FONT]Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]5 [/B][/FONT]For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.[/FONT]

Romans 16:17-18 KJV - [FONT="]Now I beseech you, brethren, [B]mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; [U]and avoid them[/U].[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of
the simple.

2 Timothy 4:3-5 KJV - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]4 [/B][/FONT][B]And they shall turn away their ears from the truth,[/B] and shall be turned unto fables.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry[/FONT]

So you believe people got into heaven without Jesus, by their own works?

 

[intojoy]

If Jesus is the only way to Heaven:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Then where did all the people who lived before Jesus' death and all the people who had never heard the Good News go?

After all it was not there fault they didn't hear the Good News. So where did they go Heaven or Hell?

And if they went to Hell is this fair? And why is it fair?

Salvation always is by grace alone thru faith alone in God’s revelation up to the point in history.

Adam believed the protoevangelion but did not know that Jesus would die for his sin. It was not until the prophet Isaiah told of Messiah suffering a penal death for sin that men could have known this and yet even after Isaiah up until the gospels saved men and women did not yet know the gospel. So what did they know?

Noah knew the flood was coming.
Abe knew Sarah would conceive.
Moses knew God was going to bring Israel into the land.
David knew there would be a God Man King to reign from his descendants.
The prophets knew of the captivity, the return, the coming kingdom and the coming Messiah.
All of these revelations were to be believed after one believed in Jehovah the God of Israel as the one true God and Israel God’s chosen people. If you believed that prior to the cross you were saved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Salvation always is by grace alone thru faith alone in God’s revelation up to the point in history.

Try backing that up with a verse? You can't!

Adam believed the protoevangelion but did not know that Jesus would die for his sin. It was not until the prophet Isaiah told of Messiah suffering a penal death for sin that men could have known this and yet even after Isaiah up until the gospels saved men and women did not yet know the gospel.

Again no verse supports that theory.

So what did they know?

Noah knew the flood was coming.
Abe knew Sarah would conceive.
Moses knew God was going to bring Israel into the land.
David knew there would be a God Man King to reign from his descendants.
The prophets knew of the captivity, the return, the coming kingdom and the coming Messiah.
All of these revelations were to be believed after one believed in Jehovah the God of Israel as the one true God and Israel God’s chosen people. If you believed that prior to the cross you were saved.

Then you believe demons go to heaven:

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

And for example all those who recognised who God was such as the men of Jericho who fought against Gods people:

Joshua 2
10We have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed. 11When we heard of it, our hearts melted in fear and everyone’s courage failed because of you, for the Lord your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below.

 

[meshak]

Salvation always is by grace alone thru faith alone in God’s revelation up to the point in history.

:deadhorse:

It is your theory not Jesus' word.

Jesus even stated to be faithful until the end, and we all will be judged by according to what we have done.

Jesus never said only non-believers will be judged according what they have done.

You are Jesus denier.

You know nothing about God and Jesus' love.

 

[God's Truth]

Find a verse that says that Jesus was the way in the OT! You are imagining it because your theology is based on your feelings.

Jesus was the way but it was not yet revealed.
Here is the scripture that proves what I said:

1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ

Now you have learned something. Aren’t you glad?

That's right,
perfect through faith in Jesus' shed blood. Which totally contradicts what you meant above.

Believing and obeying God has ALWAYS been the way, since the beginning.
Would you like me to prove that to you too?

That is a lie straight from the devil. Find a verse that says that. You can't.
they went to Abraham's bosom.

People were called children of God before Jesus came. God was with them.
Are you really going to deny and blasphemy against such a known thing?

Deuteronomy 14:1
"You are the sons of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave your forehead for the sake of the dead.

Romans 9:4
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory and the covenants; theirs the giving of the Law, the temple worship, and the promises.

Only for those who truly believe Jesus is the ONLY WAY!:

Of course a person has to believe and obey.

Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Even the most righteous acts of the most righteous person is to God but rags with a woman's period on them.

You are badly mistaken to think the most righteous person and most righteous acts are as that.

You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.

How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!

The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.


Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.

John 10:8
All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.

Jesus tell it like it is, even the most honoured of the Old testament 'holy' people are but thieves and robbers compared to Jesus.

Not the holy people of God. How would you EVER get that? Do you really think that Abraham was a thief and a robber?

There is no comparison between man and God and Jesus is God. Without Jesus all are lost, including everyone before Jesus' death and resurrection.

You have some issues you need to work out.

 

[marhig]

If Jesus is the only way to Heaven:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Then where did all the people who lived before Jesus' death and all the people who had never heard the Good News go?

After all it was not there fault they didn't hear the Good News. So where did they go Heaven or Hell?

And if they went to Hell is this fair? And why is it fair?

What about moses and Elias? They appeared with Jesus on the mountain in glory. Don't you think that they came from heaven?

 

[marhig]

Yes you did in post #2:
"God is merciful. those people who are decent and law abiding will be in God's kingdom."

So you think by simply loving others we can get into Heaven. Hitler loved his wife, so you think Hitler went to Heaven too.

Hitler didn't love God with all his heart and mind and his neighbour as himself, if he did he wouldn't have murdered all those people.

Loving our family and loving God and doing his works are different. We will do things for our family because we love them in the flesh, but with God's love, we will do things that we would never do in the flesh and we will care for others much more than we would if we put our flesh first. And God's love in the hearts of those born of him, reaches and cares for whomsoever we meet and see in need regardless of who they are, as God cares for everyone and he is no respecter of persons.

 

[marhig]

It was taught for over a thousand years before Jesus came along:

Leviticus 19:18
"'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

Do you realise that Christ was in the prophets?

 

[marhig]

So why do you reject Jesus as your saviour? And rely on being a good person to get into Heaven.

You know what amazes me, people here teach that people have to believe that Jesus died on the cross to save us and that we won't enter heaven unless we believe this, (yet it doesn't say this in the Bible). And yet Jesus teaches that those who live by the will of God are those who enter into the kingdom of heaven, yet many skip past this and ignore it when I show them the verse. And then many say there are no works, but if we live by the will of God then there are works, and we have to be doers of the word and not just hearers only. Jesus showed us the way to live to please God, he showed us a new and living way to follow.

If we love God and have true faith, then we will obey him and Christ, and with obedience comes works, not the works of the flesh which brings boasting and pride, but the works of God where we become humble and last in the world and put God first in our lives and live to please him as we are taught by Christ Jesus, and then as we are taught daily in our hearts by the Spirit, who teaches and guides us showing us the truth and helping us to turn from sin and overcome.

 

[marhig]

Read it plainly. It says that faith in God pleases God because it show a person believes He exists. There is nothing there that say faith in God will get you into heaven. The Jews believe in the same God as the Christians but they are all going to Hell. It is Jesus who you need to believe in order to go to Heaven. Deny that and you have condemned yourself:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in HIM shall not perish but have eternal life.

Basics man, basic!

You can't condemn everyone before Jesus came, only God can judge them, blimey Watchman you're condemning some of the strongest men of God that there has ever been. Christ was in and with them. Christ was the spiritual rock that they drank from.