What are the main challenges facing Mankind today?

[Dan Emanuel]

Not at all true...

Are you furry? I'm not, and I don't know anybody who is.

...Did you miss the thousands of people who died in India during a heat wave?...

So is it you're thought that we should instead try to cool the planet? Because otherwise, I don't understand what you're point is. So their will be more heatwave's, yes, and yes, its been happening for a long time; people dying in heatwave's, and we already can't figure out how to keep all of ourselve's safe during heatwave's, so therefore we should go along with the old saying, "If at first you don't succeed, give up?" Maybe we should make it a global priority to protect from people from heatwave's? Maybe thats a bit smaller of a bite than trying to steer the whole planets climate?

...Do you think 113 degrees Fahrenheit is good for people and plants?...

I know that plant's are fine with it so long as they'res moisture. Failing that, we'd have desert's. And we already have those.

...Higher temperatures means evaporation increases and insects aren't killed by the cold. Both of those things are very bad for plants...

We've already invented/discovered plenty of insecticide's that are designed for this very thing. We've been managing insect's for century's. Check that 1 off you're list.

...It helps regulate the climate...

Doesn't this assume that we are already at our planets optimal climate? Why are we so sure of this?

...stores water that would otherwise inundate a large area of land...

Again, your assuming that the sea level is at the right level now. Its like we woke up 1 day, and assumed that the way thing's were on the day we woke up, is the right way, and that sound's for all the world amazingly like radical fundamentalist reasoning going on right their.

...Well we're going to have to adapt. I'm not worried about human beings going extinct, but the death and suffering has the potential to be tremendous and the longer we fail to act on climate change the worse things are going to get...

I'm just a little shocked that you accept the way thing's are today as the best possible way. How do you know this?

...Humans survived many ice ages...

How many ice age's have human's lived through?

...But the worst mass extinction in earth's history as far as we know was heat during the permian...

During the Permian, their occurred "the only known mass extinction of insects."

...We don't know if we're going there or not but it stands to reason to stop experimenting on our only home.

Except, science. We learn so much quicker when we experiment than when we just sit idly by and watch stuff happen, or worse, fight like heck to prevent any and all change, even deliberate experimentation designed to further our fundamental knowledge of thing's. Don't you agree?


DJ

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[Dan Emanuel]

What a dangerously ignorant rationalization!

What you don't realize is that the system is complex, and very interdependent...

No, I get that.

...There will be a tipping point after which a 'cascade effect' ensues. We don't know exactly what that point is, but we do know that once triggered, we're all totally screwed. Because there will be no turning it back. The Earth could become a dead planet, like Mars. And we humans have no where else to go once we destroy the only home that can sustain us...

I assume that you believe the archeological evidence for all the tremendous climate swing's that this planet has undergone over the hundred's of million's of year's of it's existence? This was all pre-human. Given what tend's to happen when we're not a factor at all, I cannot see good justification for the doomsayer's of climate change. "Dead planet?" Can you provide a N.A.S.A. link or something similar to support that "sky is falling" cry?

...Yet you seem to imagine that we can just keep abusing our own home indefinitely, and never suffer any real consequence...

Everything we do is using stuff that we've found lying around our home. It was a package deal. All the molecule's that we're making now are made from raw material's we found in the ground.

...Like a fool urinating and dedicating in his own house year after year and imaging that the worst that can happen is the smell.

:AMR:

What smell?


DJ

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[Quetzal]

Dan, you have a drastic misunderstanding of the consequences of even the smallest change in our environment. Further, you are purposefully ignorant of the topic and do not accept the possibility of an alternative outside of your misinformed opinion. Unfortunate.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

Dan, you have a drastic misunderstanding of the consequences of even the smallest change in our environment...

You're language indicate's that I am so far off from the truth, that a simple link should set me entirely straight, and put me on the right road. And you offered me a simple link, to an accepted authority in science (N.A.S.A.), which didn't persuade me to change my position at all, let alone did it set me straight.

So by all mean's, try again. I don't like the idea of being "drastically" misunderstanding of anything, especially something that so many intelligent people claim is so important that I get right.

...Further, you are purposefully ignorant of the topic...

What is you're proof for this judgment?

...and do not accept the possibility of an alternative outside of your misinformed opinion. Unfortunate.

If that were the case, I'd agree with you.


DJ

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[Quetzal]

You're language indicate's that I am so far off from the truth, that a simple link should set me entirely straight, and put me on the right road. And you offered me a simple link, to an accepted authority in science (N.A.S.A.), which didn't persuade me to change my position at all, let alone did it set me straight.

So by all mean's, try again. I don't like the idea of being "drastically" misunderstanding of anything, especially something that so many intelligent people claim is so important that I get right.
What is you're proof for this judgment?
If that were the case, I'd agree with you.


DJ

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The fact that I offered you a source from a scientific authority and you still downplay the concept is all the proof I need.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

The fact that I offered you a source from a scientific authority and you still downplay the concept is all the proof I need.

I read everything in the link you provided me.

I read it, and I remain unconcerned. Nobodies' talking about extinction event's here, and when somebody does, its nothing like the threat of a bolide impact (way beyond our control). Here is 1 of the thing's that N.A.S.A. say's:

"Taken as a whole," the IPCC states, "the range of published evidence indicates that the net damage costs of climate change are likely to be significant and to increase over time."​

Is it the economic cost that worry's you?

What am I missing? What exactly from you're link concern's you, and what do you think should concern me?

And thank's for the neg rep. You have all the patience of a hungry animal at chow time.


DJ

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[chrysostom]

And thank's for the neg rep. You have all the patience of a hungry animal at chow time.

just put him on ignore
he is not worth your time

 

[Quetzal]

I read everything in the link you provided me.

I read it, and I remain unconcerned. Nobodies' talking about extinction event's here, and when somebody does, its nothing like the threat of a bolide impact (way beyond our control). Here is 1 of the thing's that N.A.S.A. say's:

"Taken as a whole," the IPCC states, "the range of published evidence indicates that the net damage costs of climate change are likely to be significant and to increase over time."​

Is it the economic cost that worry's you?

What am I missing? What exactly from you're link concern's you, and what do you think should concern me?

And thank's for the neg rep. You have all the patience of a hungry animal at chow time.


DJ

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From the article...

Northeast. Heat waves, heavy downpours, and sea level rise pose growing challenges to many aspects of life in the Northeast. Infrastructure, agriculture, fisheries, and ecosystems will be increasingly compromised. Many states and cities are beginning to incorporate climate change into their planning.

Northwest. Changes in the timing of streamflow reduce water supplies for competing demands. Sea level rise, erosion, inundation, risks to infrastructure, and increasing ocean acidity pose major threats. Increasing wildfire, insect outbreaks, and tree diseases are causing widespread tree die-off.

Southeast. Sea level rise poses widespread and continuing threats to the region’s economy and environment. Extreme heat will affect health, energy, agriculture, and more. Decreased water availability will have economic and environmental impacts.

Midwest. Extreme heat, heavy downpours, and flooding will affect infrastructure, health, agriculture, forestry, transportation, air and water quality, and more. Climate change will also exacerbate a range of risks to the Great Lakes.

Southwest. Increased heat, drought, and insect outbreaks, all linked to climate change, have increased wildfires. Declining water supplies, reduced agricultural yields, health impacts in cities due to heat, and flooding and erosion in coastal areas are additional concerns.

None of these things alarm you?

 

[PureX]

No, I get that.
I assume that you believe the archeological evidence for all the tremendous climate swing's that this planet has undergone over the hundred's of million's of year's of it's existence?

Those swings were all naturally occurring. The current warming of the atmosphere is not. Those swings involved global cooling, not warming, and so do not give us much of an understanding about how much warming the climate can stand before a cascade effect ensues. So that for both reasons, the excuse of past changes does not mitigate the danger of the current changes (except for those who are seeking excuses for ignoring the danger).

This was all pre-human. Given what tend's to happen when we're not a factor at all, I cannot see good justification for the doomsayer's of climate change.

Perhaps that is because you are actively looking for reasons not to be alarmed. Looking for any reason you can find to excuse the warnings. And my question would be; why? Why, given the seriousness of the possible catastrophe, and the evidence of it's possibility, would you deliberately choose to seek out ways of ignoring them? Especially when it's not just your own life that would be at stake, but the lives of future generations of humans, and perhaps even of all life on the planet?

"Dead planet?" Can you provide a N.A.S.A. link or something similar to support that "sky is falling" cry?

How long do you imagine we can continue to poison and pollute our own environment before we suffer the consequences? You're trying to characterize the threat as absurdly exaggerated, and yet you completely ignore the absurdity of continuing to deliberately poison our one and only sustaining environment, while it already is showing us serious signs of ill effects.

Which is really the more absurd?

Everything we do is using stuff that we've found lying around our home. It was a package deal. All the molecule's that we're making now are made from raw material's we found in the ground.

What does this have to do with anything? We can render the whole planet dead in a matter of weeks using materials we found in the ground, and by combining them in just a certain way, causing a thermonuclear explosion. And we have already manufactured enough of these devices to destroy the whole planet 10 times over. So if this comment was intended to somehow show that it's not possible given the resources, you've failed miserably.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

From the article...


None of these things alarm you?

Are you going to answer my question with another question?

I see nothing that isn't easily managed by the millennia-old maneuver known as migrating. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Their's no reason to burden the whole world of value-creator's with regulation's intended to slow down or stop or even reverse climate change. We can handle it, and we have.

How many ice age's has humanity lived through?


DJ

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[Quetzal]

Are you going to answer my question with another question?

I see nothing that isn't easily managed by the millennia-old maneuver known as migrating. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Their's no reason to burden the whole world of value-creator's with regulation's intended to slow down or stop or even reverse climate change. We can handle it, and we have.

How many ice age's has humanity lived through?


DJ

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You can't use history as a backing for your argument because these problems, as we face them, are unprecedented. You do see from my previous post that these problems are everywhere, right? Are you being dense on purpose?

 

[Dan Emanuel]

Those swings were all naturally occurring. The current warming of the atmosphere is not. Those swings involved global cooling, not warming, and so do not give us much of an understanding about how much warming the climate can stand before a cascade effect ensues. So that for both reasons, the excuse of past changes does not mitigate the danger of the current changes (except for those who are seeking excuses for ignoring the danger)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian

...Perhaps that is because you are actively looking for reasons not to be alarmed. Looking for any reason you can find to excuse the warnings...

I don't think I'm doing this, but I could be wrong. Can you grant the opposite, as far as your concerned? Can you grant that perhap's it is you who is actively looking for reason's to be alarmed?

I guess it doesn't matter, since only 1 of us can be right, at most.

...And my question would be; why? Why, given the seriousness of the possible catastrophe, and the evidence of it's possibility, would you deliberately choose to seek out ways of ignoring them?...

I don't "give" this. Thats my sticking point. It doesn't sound so bad.

...Especially when it's not just your own life that would be at stake, but the lives of future generations of humans, and perhaps even of all life on the planet?...

I heard you before say that the sky is falling. I'm just looking for evidence so that, if it is true that the sky is falling, then I can help with the effort to protect ourselve's from it.

...How long do you imagine we can continue to poison and pollute our own environment before we suffer the consequences? You're trying to characterize the threat as absurdly exaggerated, and yet you completely ignore the absurdity of continuing to deliberately poison our one and only sustaining environment, while it already is showing us serious signs of ill effects.

Which is really the more absurd?...

Again, I am assuming that you believe all the archeological evidence that suggest's that the planets been through a whole lot more over the past hundred's of million's of year's than anybody is suggesting will happen from human-caused climate change. Perhap's I'm mistaken. If anything, archeological, geological evidence suggest's that this planet is as hearty as they come regarding it's ability to sustain life over the long haul, no matter what happen's in the near-term.

Of course they're is the threat of the sun burning itself out of hydrogen fuel, and whenever that happen's, we'll wish we were just dealing with a little climate change.

...What does this have to do with anything? We can render the whole planet dead in a matter of weeks using materials we found in the ground, and by combining them in just a certain way, causing a thermonuclear explosion. And we have already manufactured enough of these devices to destroy the whole planet 10 times over. So if this comment was intended to somehow show that it's not possible given the resources, you've failed miserably.

Well are we talking about the threat posed by climate change, or by global nuclear war? Their not the same thing.


DJ

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[Dan Emanuel]

You can't use history as a backing for your argument because these problems, as we face them, are unprecedented...

So therefore lets throw caution to the wind and place all our bet's on un-tested novelty's? Why should we all fall in line with idea's for which they're is no history to help guide us? You may prefer the devil you don't know, but I'll stick with the 1 I do.

...You do see from my previous post that these problems are everywhere, right?...

Yes. Just like today. Every area on earth has its weather peculiarity's. That will not change. If you don't like tornadoes then don't live in Oklahoma.

...Are you being dense on purpose?

Sure.


DJ

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[Quetzal]

So therefore lets throw caution to the wind and place all our bet's on un-tested novelty's? Why should we all fall in line with idea's for which they're is no history to help guide us? You may prefer the devil you don't know, but I'll stick with the 1 I do.

All the more reason to invest in research and precautions. The bigger gamble is to say "Oh, no need, everything will be fine" and then have things start to go bad. This is something we need to try to stay ahead of.

Yes. Just like today. Every area on earth has its weather peculiarity's. That will not change. If you don't like tornadoes then don't live in Oklahoma.

Evidence suggests these events are becoming more frequent and more severe. These are problems we need to begin to talk about and address.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

All the more reason to invest in research and precautions. The bigger gamble is to say "Oh, no need, everything will be fine" and then have things start to go bad. This is something we need to try to stay ahead of...

You can't convince me by talking about what is and what isn't a wise gamble. If this is a gamble at all, then I say lets wait and see. If its a sure thing, then lets talk. But so long as you are seeing it as a gamble, then I remain unconvinced.

...Evidence suggests these events are becoming more frequent and more severe. These are problems we need to begin to talk about and address.

OK. Clearly you know that these change's are happening more rapidly than can be addressed within even a single generation of people? If somebody is living somewhere and they don't like what the weathers doing, they move, if they can. This is not going to change. If you don't like how high the sea is rising near where you live, you move. Same as alway's.

Maybe some city's will shrink, maybe other's will grow. Thats not new either. City's that used to thrive exist only in ruin's today, for a variety of reason's, including environmental change's (a biblical example: Ephesus used to be thriving, but then its port dried up --no more Ephesus).


DJ

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[Quetzal]

You can't convince me by talking about what is and what isn't a wise gamble. If this is a gamble at all, then I say lets wait and see. If its a sure thing, then lets talk. But so long as you are seeing it as a gamble, then I remain unconvinced.
OK. Clearly you know that these change's are happening more rapidly than can be addressed within even a single generation of people? If somebody is living somewhere and they don't like what the weathers doing, they move, if they can. This is not going to change. If you don't like how high the sea is rising near where you live, you move. Same as alway's.

Maybe some city's will shrink, maybe other's will grow. Thats not new either. City's that used to thrive exist only in ruin's today, for a variety of reason's, including environmental change's (a biblical example: Ephesus used to be thriving, but then its port dried up --no more Ephesus).


DJ

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This conversation is over. Your lack of vision and critical thought is appalling.

 

[Nick M]

1. Look up socialism.

I know what it is. It is income redistribution hidden in "compassion" which really destroys lives.

Even the Wikipedia will do.

lain:

2. What exactly did Samuel say?

Samuel spoke on behalf of God. Do you accept or reject that? If you reject it, there is no point. I mean it literally. The prophet spoke on behalf of God, with absolute authority. If you accept it (I know you don't) then I will spoon feed you what you should already know.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

This conversation is over. Your lack of vision and critical thought is appalling.

Think. Think hard. If you need a coach to teach you how to think hard, I will do it. You have to alway's think as hard as you can, and right now I can promise you that you have never thought hard in all you're life for any extended period.

You're post's speak for themselve's, regardless of what you think your saying in them.


DJ

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[Quetzal]

Think. Think hard. If you need a coach to teach you how to think hard, I will do it. You have to alway's think as hard as you can, and right now I can promise you that you have never thought hard in all you're life for any extended period.

You're post's speak for themselve's, regardless of what you think your saying in them.


DJ

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Ironic considering you are dismissing the entire case based on nothing but your own opinion. If you were in charge, you would rather risk our population and this planet so you could "wait and see" instead of at least consider the possibility that it could happen.

 

[bybee]

Think. Think hard. If you need a coach to teach you how to think hard, I will do it. You have to alway's think as hard as you can, and right now I can promise you that you have never thought hard in all you're life for any extended period.

You're post's speak for themselve's, regardless of what you think your saying in them.

Now I have formed just the opposite opinion of him based on his posts. I believe he shows great intelligence and the ability to become wise.
DJ

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