ECT WHAT ACTS 2:28 REALLY MEANS !!

[God's Truth]

I see you don't want to answer the question? Why?

Why don't you do what God says and search for yourself?

You say you believe Paul.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Why don't you do what God says and search for yourself?

You say you believe Paul.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

My questions are about you and your supposed obedience. If you
don't know how you're being obedient, just say so?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

GT, you're acting like somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You're using Scripture to hide your answers to my questions.

 

[God's Truth]

My questions are about you and your supposed obedience. If you
don't know how you're being obedient, just say so?

How do you not know what the Word of God wants you to do?

Why do you refuse to search?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

How do you not know what the Word of God wants you to do?

Why do you refuse to search?

I see you're trying not to answer the questions by pointing your finger at me. That's an obvious tactic.

 

[God's Truth]

You're using Scripture to hide your answers to my questions.

Do you know what sins are? Do you know what sins you have done and are doing?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Do you know what sins are? Do you know what sins you have done and are doing?

Now, your tactic is to avoid my questions by going off in a different
direction.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I have no more time for you now. You didn't answer even one of my questions.
Interesting.

 

[God's Truth]

Now, your tactic is to avoid my questions by going off in a different
direction.

Jesus says to repent of your sins.

Again, do you know what sins are?

Do you admit you have sinned?

 

[kayaker]

I can proven with scripture that baptism with the Holy Spirit,the out "pouring" of the Spirit, receiving the Holy Spirit, being saved, and speaking in tongues is all the same occurrence.

These are NOT different occurrences, as many here are confused about.

With all these scriptures I am going to prove my beliefs, and are all about Cornelius and his household.

Peter says these Gentiles RECEIVED the Holy Spirit. There is not a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit, a separate pouring out of the Holy Spirit, a separate being saved, and a separate receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Notice that a holy angel told Cornelius to ask Peter to come to his house so that he could HEAR what he had to say? Well, he is hearing the message that SAVES. See also Acts 11:14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.'

Here is another scripture that says Cornelius was going to HEAR the message that saves.

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say."

Acts 11:15-16 "Just as I was starting to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'"

I have shown you with scripture that BEING SAVED, AND BEING BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, the OUT POURING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT, and speaking in tongues are not separate, they are all the same occurrence.

I was comparing and contrasting being water baptized, and being baptized by being filled with, by, poured out upon, fell upon, etc, etc., the Holy Spirit.

Baptismal spiritual regeneration subscribers, like Catholics, LDS/Mormons, Church of Christ, etc., hold water baptism as a prerequisite to achieve salvation, even as a component of 'receiving' the Holy Spirit. I do not subscribe to the notion of water baptism from that perspective.

Anyone here see any light shining around them, btw? I figured that probable took 15 seconds or longer. It is interesting those with Paul on the road to Damascus heard a voice; but, there' no record they understood Jesus' words, fwiw, that's pretty interesting. I also find it interesting folk who 'received' the Holy Ghost never walked on water, although the Catholics can turn water into blood, and bread into flesh! That's pretty cool, huh?

Water baptism is water baptism. Spiritual baptism is Spiritual baptism. The blue-blooded, high-born Ole Nicky poo just couldn't grasp the abstract concept of Spiritual rebirth... that had utterly nothing to do with di-hydrogen monoxide (H2O) from his, or Jesus' perspectives.

I've focused, to the best of my limited ability, on the notion of water baptism, and 'receipt' of the Holy Ghost. And, I'm not hearing about a 20-gig download, except for Paul, and he didn't walk on water, respectfully.

So, what's your take, GT: Is water baptism a prerequisite to obtain salvation? Dan P suggested in his OP that water baptism was not being referenced in Acts 2 as he quoted. I agree with Dan, although I might have an bone to pick with some of his further comments.

Is water baptism a prerequisite to obtain salvation? Is water baptism a prerequisite to 'receive' the Holy Ghost? And, if I'm diverting your tread, I do apologize, Dan.

kayaker

 

[God's Truth]

I was comparing and contrasting being water baptized, and being baptized by being filled with, by, poured out upon, fell upon, etc, etc., the Holy Spirit.

Baptismal spiritual regeneration subscribers, like Catholics, LDS/Mormons, Church of Christ, etc., hold water baptism as a prerequisite to achieve salvation, even as a component of 'receiving' the Holy Spirit. I do not subscribe to the notion of water baptism from that perspective.

Anyone here see any light shining around them, btw? I figured that probable took 15 seconds or longer. It is interesting those with Paul on the road to Damascus heard a voice; but, there' no record they understood Jesus' words, fwiw, that's pretty interesting. I also find it interesting folk who 'received' the Holy Ghost never walked on water, although the Catholics can turn water into blood, and bread into flesh! That's pretty cool, huh?

Water baptism is water baptism. Spiritual baptism is Spiritual baptism. The blue-blooded, high-born Ole Nicky poo just couldn't grasp the abstract concept of Spiritual rebirth... that had utterly nothing to do with di-hydrogen monoxide (H2O) from his, or Jesus' perspectives.

I've focused, to the best of my limited ability, on the notion of water baptism, and 'receipt' of the Holy Ghost. And, I'm not hearing about a 20-gig download, except for Paul, and he didn't walk on water, respectfully.

So, what's your take, GT: Is water baptism a prerequisite to obtain salvation? Dan P suggested in his OP that water baptism was not being referenced in Acts 2 as he quoted. I agree with Dan, although I might have an bone to pick with some of his further comments.

Is water baptism a prerequisite to obtain salvation? Is water baptism a prerequisite to 'receive' the Holy Ghost? And, if I'm diverting your tread, I do apologize, Dan.

kayaker

A person can receive the Holy Spirit before a water baptism, as seen in the scriptures about Cornelius and his whole household.

There is also scripture about people being water baptized and NOT having received the Holy Spirit; as seen in Acts and the Samaritans.

Water baptism is a ceremony and a symbol of what has already happened in a person's heart.

God wants us to be water baptized. Just like God wants us to be faithful to our spouse, and all the other commands.

 

[God's Truth]

God gives us the Holy Spirit when He accepts us, Acts 15:8.

If a person is water baptized, it does not mean their heart was right at that exact time.

God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey, Acts 5:32, and John 14:23.

God gives the Holy Spirit to those He accepts, and He accepts those fear Him and does what is right, Acts 10:35.

 

[kayaker]

FWIW, GT... Are you utterly without sin? I mean, are you able to walk on water? Invariably, good thread subjects are provided by gracious hosts like Dan, and you redundantly, and redundantly, and redundantly repeat your evangelical sermon that folks here aren't repented enough. Isn't one repentance, and one forgiveness, enough already? How many times do you repent for a past sin? Repenting more than once for one sin sorta dilutes the notion of forgiveness in the first place. What are you so guilty of that you keep flogging yourself and others?

So, if it will make you happy... let's all bow and repent of our sins since out last confession. Now, put your flagrum down, and get off your war horse, please.

kayaker

 

[turbosixx]

Great question, T6! JTB was publicly known for water baptizing folk; and, undoubtedly it was relatively common knowledge he and Jesus were close kin. Being 'washed' akin to John's baptism was a common practice among the Jews of those days. I venture to say said Jewish ceremony was a component carried forth from the OT. So, 'baptism', using the term loosely, was not an unfamiliar custom. John baptized preparing a way for the Lord, and I suggest his baptisms differed in that regard as undoubtedly JTB advised his 'converts' to anticipate another baptism, a Spiritual one, beyond JTB's baptism, and beyond the ceremonial 'washing' performed by the Jews, which was indeed a public ceremony in religious circles.

Nicodemus' quandary, previously mentioned on a prior post, testifies to their carnally minded notion of being blue-blooded, hight-born of royal ancestry (an extension of Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9, 10). Being ceremonially 'washed' was evidently an aspect of their religious life.

I seriously doubt the Pharisees 'washed' Gentiles. Even if they did, the Gentile would not become a Jew, LOL! So... there's a bit of hypocrisy there considering Noah sanctioned procreation between the Gentiles (Japheth's descendants: Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV) and the Shemite/Semites in Genesis 9:27 KJV. Ham and his progeny were geographically isolated in the Land of Canaan. So, by default, Noah forbid Gentile/Shemite procreation with the descendants of Ham.

So, the original notion of 'washing', using that term loosely, was a ceremonial public event in the synagogues. Ole JTB gotter did in the muddy rivers, speaking of kayaking, LOL! I suspect that sorta became a burr under the saddle of those blue-blooded, high-born royal folk! (Luke 3:2, 7, 8, 9)... they probably couldn't handle getting a little creek sand in their knickers, ROFLOL!

I'm sorry, T6... I just had to fall out of my kayak on that one... no harm intended, friend. I wasn't making fun at you in the least.

kayaker

I appreciate the humor and it takes a lot to offend me. I’ve been called names and told I was evil and so on but it doesn’t bother me.

Yes, what JTB did was ceremonial but after Jesus became our savior, baptism took on a whole new purpose. If it is only ceremonial, then the bible would say so or we would have to gather from it use that is all there is to water baptism. I believe the bible tells us much about water baptism. For example, here Peter is telling us that water baptism saves us, what it does and he uses an OT example to show water saves.

1 Pt. 3:20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you -not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
He is clearly talking about water baptism in saying the 8 were brought safely through water and baptism is not a bath but an appeal.

Also, we have in Acts 19 where Paul baptized people again who were baptized previously. They received John’s baptism but that doesn’t have Jesus blood behind it, they needed to be baptized into Jesus’ name.

Acts 19:2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

I would suggest to you being baptized (water) into Jesus’ name is how we are added to Christ. If you will notice all conversions, that have any detail, end with the convert being baptized.

 

[God's Truth]

FWIW, GT... Are you utterly without sin? I mean, are you able to walk on water?

Walking on water does not mean you do not have any sins.

Invariably, good thread subjects are provided by gracious hosts like Dan, and you redundantly, and redundantly, and redundantly repeat your evangelical sermon that folks here aren't repented enough.

The thread is ABOUT BAPTISM.

You cannot have any baptism without repenting of sins.

Isn't one repentance, and one forgiveness, enough already? How many times do you repent for a past sin?

If you keep doing that past sin, they you are to keep repenting of it until you do not do it anymore. That is how to work out your salvation.

Repenting more than once for one sin sorta dilutes the notion of forgiveness in the first place. What are you so guilty of that you keep flogging yourself and others?

I see you are feeling guilty too, or else you would not falsely attack me for preaching obedience to Christ.

So, if it will make you happy... let's all bow and repent of our sins since out last confession. Now, put your flagrum down, and get off your war horse, please.

kayaker

There are people here who are going against me because I say we are to obey Jesus and repent of our sins. They say repent means to turn to God and not repent of sins.

What else do you got besides insults?

 

[God's Truth]

I appreciate the humor and it takes a lot to offend me. I’ve been called names and told I was evil and so on but it doesn’t bother me.

That is their only defense. The only way they can defend their false doctrines is to resort to insults. You have done that yourself, turbosixx.

 

[kayaker]

A person can receive the Holy Spirit before a water baptism, as seen in the scriptures about Cornelius and his whole household.

There is also scripture about people being water baptized and NOT having received the Holy Spirit; as seen in Acts and the Samaritans.

Water baptism is a ceremony and a symbol of what has already happened in a person's heart.

God wants us to be water baptized. Just like God wants us to be faithful to our spouse, and all the other commands.

Great post! Thank you. My EX-wife once told me that lusting is just the same as having sex according to the Bible (she was one quarter short of her BS in theology, and her father was an esteemed and educated First Baptist preacher). Of course, I slept on the couch the next month for telling her having sex feels a lot better than lusting, ROFLOL! I got utterly disgusted with her insistently challenging my love. Now, I'm happily divorced!

Only ONE was perfect, GT. NOTHING can make us spiritually perfect except the blood of the Lamb (as Jesus was explaining to ole Nickey poo) although water baptismal spiritual regeneration advocates will tell us water baptism is a critical component, thereof. Did the dude on the cross obey Jesus' commands, GT? I suspect he would have done the best he could had he been set free... but, the UTTERLY best we can do doesn't hold a candle to the blood of the Lamb, and neither does water baptism. The fact is, many of the mentions of "baptism" in the NT are not explicitly clear they involved water (in the KJV).

So, quit flogging yourself and others being NONE of us are worthy, by works, repentance, or water baptism. Repentance is an early step in the process in the NT, water baptism and works, as well. What were they repenting of in the NT, GT? In your alleged Scriptural prowess... give me an example or two of what their sins were... (Scriptural coordinates, please). Something akin to Jesus telling folk, "thy sin(s) be forgiven thee." To your surprise, Jesus NEVER directly and explicitly forgave a specific individual (there is one exception as I recall requiring further discussion). Otherwise, it would have been a 'beam him up, Scottie' scenario. And, I've not seen anyone disappear during a baptism, either, btw.

kayaker

 

[God's Truth]

Great post! Thank you. My EX-wife once told me that lusting is just the same as having sex according to the Bible (she was one quarter short of her BS in theology, and her father was an esteemed and educated First Baptist preacher). Of course, I slept on the couch the next month for telling her having sex feels a lot better than lusting, ROFLOL! I got utterly disgusted with her insistently challenging my love. Now, I'm happily divorced!

This is what JESUS says.

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Don’t you think it matters what is in your heart?

Only ONE was perfect, GT. NOTHING can make us spiritually perfect except the blood of the Lamb (as Jesus was explaining to ole Nickey poo)

Jesus’ blood washes away our sins. We are then made perfect. Then we are to live up to that.


Read all these scriptures about how holy and perfect those saved are:

Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

John 17:19 John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,



Now read all these scriptures about how you are to live up to that:

2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election.

Philippians 3:16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

Ephesians 4:1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.

Colossians 1:10
so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,

Colossians 2:6
So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him,

1 Thessalonians 2:12
encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

1 Thessalonians 4:1
As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.

King James Bible
2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
2 Thessalonians 1:5 It is a clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment that you will be counted worthy of God’s kingdom, for which you also are suffering,

although water baptismal spiritual regeneration advocates will tell us water baptism is a critical component, thereof. Did the dude on the cross obey Jesus' commands, GT?

The thief on the cross obeyed Jesus’ commands to be saved.
He feared God; he was sorry for his sins and repented of them. He confessed Jesus in front of others. He called on Jesus to remember him.

I suspect he would have done the best he could had he been set free... but, the UTTERLY best we can do doesn't hold a candle to the blood of the Lamb, and neither does water baptism. The fact is, many of the mentions of "baptism" in the NT are not explicitly clear they involved water (in the KJV). So, quit flogging yourself and others being NONE of us are worthy, by works, repentance, or water baptism.

You have no life if you do not obey Jesus.

Kind of like how you are separated from your wife.

Repentance is an early step in the process in the NT, water baptism and works, as well. What were they repenting of in the NT, GT?

Just as Jesus says, they are to repent of their sins.

In your alleged Scriptural prowess... give me an example or two of what their sins were... (Scriptural coordinates, please). Something akin to Jesus telling folk, "thy sin(s) be forgiven thee." To your surprise, Jesus NEVER directly and explicitly forgave a specific individual (there is one exception as I recall requiring further discussion). Otherwise, it would have been a 'beam him up, Scottie' scenario. And, I've not seen anyone disappear during a baptism, either, btw.

kayaker

You are going to have to explain what you are trying to convey.

 

[heir]

The gospel of Christ is about Jesus dying for the sins THAT WE CONFESSED AND REPENTED FROM DOING!

The gospel of Christ is that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). All of our sins were in the future when He did so, so he died for ALL of them/every single one of them whether one believes that or not! Do try and think!

GT does not believe that Christ died for all of her sins. She is not saved.