ECT We know that God does not hear sinners ...

[glorydaz]

Have you ever sinned?

Of course I have sinned. All men sin and come short of the glory of God.

Did you continue sinning when you became a believer, or did you stop sinning?

Did I stop sinning? NO, I was delivered from the law and it's condemnation when I was created IN CHRIST JESUS.


Since Jesus Christ is the end of the law for all who believe, I am no longer under the law.

If I were still under the law, I would be condemned by the law for every thought of my heart...not just by every act that man could see, but by every thought only God can see. I would be condemned for any lack of faith, any moment of worry and fear, every single time I desired something that wasn't mine. I most certainly stopped doing many things that would be considered as sin, but not through any effort on my part, but because of the change of my heart through the operation of God. That aside, I still do many things that would be considered as sin had I not been delivered from the law. When the Lord came, he made the law HOLY. So holy that it's applies to all our actions AND all our thoughts.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you know why John the baptizer was arrested? Don't you know that it is because Herod came to get baptized, but he was not really sorry for his sins and was not going to repent of his sins?

Someone here has gone against me concerning the reason John the baptizer was arrested.

I will use only the KJV to explain why he was arrested, since that is the only translation the debater would respect.

King James Version---

Matthew 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Mark 6:17 For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.


Mark 6
14 King Herod heard about this, for Jesus’ name had become well known. Some were saying, “John the Baptist has been raised from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him.”
15 Others said, “He is Elijah.”
And still others claimed, “He is a prophet, like one of the prophets of long ago.”
16 But when Herod heard this, he said, “John, whom I beheaded, has been raised from the dead!”
17 For Herod himself had given orders to have John arrested, and he had him bound and put in prison. He did this because of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, whom he had married. 18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” 19 So Herodias nursed a grudge against John and wanted to kill him. But she was not able to, 20 because Herod feared John and protected him, knowing him to be a righteous and holy man. When Herod heard John, he was greatly puzzled; yet he liked to listen to him.
21 Finally the opportune time came. On his birthday Herod gave a banquet for his high officials and military commanders and the leading men of Galilee. 22 When the daughter of Herodias came in and danced, she pleased Herod and his dinner guests.
The king said to the girl, “Ask me for anything you want, and I’ll give it to you.” 23 And he promised her with an oath, “Whatever you ask I will give you, up to half my kingdom.”
24 She went out and said to her mother, “What shall I ask for?”
“The head of John the Baptist,” she answered.
25 At once the girl hurried in to the king with the request: “I want you to give me right now the head of John the Baptist on a platter.”
26 The king was greatly distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he did not want to refuse her. 27 So he immediately sent an executioner with orders to bring John’s head. The man went, beheaded John in the prison, 28 and brought back his head on a platter. He presented it to the girl, and she gave it to her mother. 29 On hearing of this, John’s disciples came and took his body and laid it in a tomb.

I read all your quotes and I still don't see it. As they say in Missouri "SHOW ME".

 

[Cross Reference]

Some people can't be shown simply because they refuse to be shown their error even when they have no wiggle room to deny it.

 

[glorydaz]

Bull! I hate that kind of assumption when no boast was intended except in Christ. You don't know the personal battles of individuals dealing with sins in their life that by the strength of their believing for victory, have secured it by the grace of God and that by seeking Him for deliverance and receiving it.

The sins our Lord took upon the cross? :think:

Battle away....your own efforts might produce a lot of blood, sweat, and tears AND a whole bunch of guilt, but it's simply a lack of faith in the Lord's work on the cross. Why do you think Paul said to set your affections on things above instead of things on this earth? Because he knows what a temptation it is for men to look back and how they become a target for the accuser of the brethren...getting people to focus on themselves. Yes, battle away, but believers aren't to battle sins. That's been done.

 

[glorydaz]

Does any Reader here think that glorydaz will be able to 'see' what the scriptures say?

Paul says he wants us to boast in each other.

For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus. See 2 Corinthians 1:13,14.

Paul shows us we can boast in ourselves.

2 Corinthians 1:12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God's grace.

2 Corinthians 7:14 I had boasted to him about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to Titus has proved to be true as well.

1 Thessalonians 2:10
You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.


2 Corinthians 12:6
Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth.

Acts 23:1
Paul looked straight at the Sanhedrin and said, "My brothers, I have fulfilled my duty to God in all good conscience to this day."

1 Corinthians 9:15 But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me, for I would rather die than allow anyone to deprive me of this boast.

Yeah, I've heard this from you before, but I never see you boasting in others....only in yourself. :chew:

 

[ClimateSanity]

Of course I have sinned. All men sin and come short of the glory of God.





Did I stop sinning? NO, I was delivered from the law and it's condemnation when I was created IN CHRIST JESUS.


Since Jesus Christ is the end of the law for all who believe, I am no longer under the law.

If I were still under the law, I would be condemned by the law for every thought of my heart...not just by every act that man could see, but by every thought only God can see. I would be condemned for any lack of faith, any moment of worry and fear, every single time I desired something that wasn't mine. I most certainly stopped doing many things that would be considered as sin, but not through any effort on my part, but because of the change of my heart through the operation of God. That aside, I still do many things that would be considered as sin had I not been delivered from the law. When the Lord came, he made the law HOLY. So holy that it's applies to all our actions AND all our thoughts.

I want to save this.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Since Jesus Christ is the end of the law for all who believe, I am no longer under the law.

Are you continuing to sin because you are not under the law?

Romans 6:15 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.​

If I were still under the law, I would be condemned by the law for every thought of my heart...not just by every act that man could see, but by every thought only God can see. I would be condemned for any lack of faith, any moment of worry and fear, every single time I desired something that wasn't mine.

God is not as petty as you are making Him out to be.

I most certainly stopped doing many things that would be considered as sin

Then you did stop sinning.

, but not through any effort on my part, but because of the change of my heart through the operation of God.

Are you aware that the change of your heart is because the law was put into your heart and written in your mind?

Hebrews 10:16 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;​

That aside, I still do many things that would be considered as sin had I not been delivered from the law.

Are you planning on continuing in them, or are you planning on stopping them?

When the Lord came, he made the law HOLY. So holy that it's applies to all our actions AND all our thoughts.

The law was HOLY when it was given.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Some people can't be shown simply because they refuse to be shown their error even when they have no wiggle room to deny it.

Your claim that Herod threw John the Baptist into prison because Herod came to be baptized is without any scriptural support.

 

[Cross Reference]

The sins our Lord took upon the cross? :think:

Battle away....your own efforts might produce a lot of blood, sweat, and tears AND a whole bunch of guilt, but it's simply a lack of faith in the Lord's work on the cross.

If Jesus did it that way, why would you suppose it should be any different for the born again of Him? Proving oneself is what love to God is all about. But then you believe it is about a free ticket out of hell. . .it ain't.

Why do you think Paul said to set your affections on things above instead of things on this earth?

Why indeed. . . since, in your mind, that is works salvation.

Because he knows what a temptation it is for men to look back and how they become a target for the accuser of the brethren...getting people to focus on themselves. Yes, battle away, but believers aren't to battle sins. That's been done.

Temptation?? Looking back?? How about temptation to be about the revealing of one's allegiance to God . . like Jesus experienced bein tempted and tried for the revealing of it IN Him?

Jesus didn't remove the issue of sin from our lives which remains an issue for most Christians, like yourself, whose sin is presumption, but the power of it that IF one walks in the Spirit, there will be no condemnation for the sinful thought life "warring in his members". Ergo, no condemnation issue though union and intimacy with God and Christ Jesus is affected.

Indeed, "battle away". That is what "overcoming " is all about.

 

[Nick M]

Are you continuing to sin because you are not under the law?

The Lord Jesus Christ died for sin. Sin being a noun. That means all of the actions that "miss the mark". Having died, she was freed from sin and death.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Lord Jesus Christ died for sin. Sin being a noun. That means all of the actions that "miss the mark". Having died, she was freed from sin and death.

Paul said you have to be led of the Spirit or else you are under the law.

Galatians 5:18 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.​

If you are doing the works of the flesh, you are not led of the Spirit and are still under the law.

Galatians 5:19-21 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.​

The law was made for those that are doing the works of the flesh.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;​

You can claim that you are not under the law all you want, but if you are doing the works of the flesh then you are merely lying to yourself and to the Spirit.

 

[glorydaz]

Are you continuing to sin because you are not under the law?

Romans 6:15 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.​

"What shall we say then?" Paul is giving us the arguments men say as they are trying to understand the law and grace. Just as we hear people saying that we claim grace is a license to sin. Your verse in Rom. 6:15 is the same.

Romans 6:1KJV What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Which is why he says, "God forbid". We should never say we may as well sin because we are not under the law. He goes on to explain how we are "dead to sin"...so how can we possibly live any longer therein.

Romans 6:2KJV God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

If you don't understand what Paul is saying, then this cannot possibly make any sense whatsoever.

Romans 6:7KJV For he that is dead is freed from sin.

God is not as petty as you are making Him out to be.

I'm not making God out to be petty. Jesus told us in Matt. 5 that we were to be "perfect" as the Father in Heaven is perfect. He means exactly that and whatever is not of faith is sin.

Then you did stop sinning.

In the same way I would stop speeding if the speed signs were removed. I lost the desire to speed when I trusted the Lord to get me there on time. I cannot sin if the law is removed. Sin is transgression of the law.

Are you aware that the change of your heart is because the law was put into your heart and written in your mind?

Hebrews 10:16 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;​

I'm not going to get into whether that was written to me or to the Hebrews. What was written to me is what Paul said....that I underwent the operation of God and was baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ...a new creation.

Are you planning on continuing in them, or are you planning on stopping them?

I trust in the Lord to perform that work He began in me. I am quite confident He will do it. Whatever I try to do through my own efforts fails. It's because God intends us to walk entirely by faith.

The law was HOLY when it was given.

He made it holy when He explained in Matt. 5 that even looking at a woman with lust was committing adultery. And, He revealed to the Apostle Paul EXACTLY what the purpose of the Law was and what it is NOT.

 

[ClimateSanity]

He made it holy in the sense the full scope and intent of the law was revealed.

 

[genuineoriginal]

"What shall we say then?" Paul is giving us the arguments men say as they are trying to understand the law and grace. Just as we hear people saying that we claim grace is a license to sin. Your verse in Rom. 6:15 is the same.

Romans 6:1KJV What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Which is why he says, "God forbid". We should never say we may as well sin because we are not under the law.

Paul is saying God does not want us to sin more in order to receive more grace.

He goes on to explain how we are "dead to sin"...so how can we possibly live any longer therein.

Romans 6:2KJV God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

If you don't understand what Paul is saying, then this cannot possibly make any sense whatsoever.

Romans 6:7KJV For he that is dead is freed from sin.

I see how your misunderstanding of what Paul said is causing your confusion.

Paul is saying that we are to mortify (put to death) the deeds of the flesh (sin).

Romans 8:13 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.​

In modern English, that means we are to stop sinning as much as a dead person has stopped sinning.

I'm not making God out to be petty.

You did make God out as petty.

Jesus told us in Matt. 5 that we were to be "perfect" as the Father in Heaven is perfect. He means exactly that and whatever is not of faith is sin.

"perfect" means mature, if you check the definition of the Greek word.
It does not mean what the modern English word "perfect" means.

In the same way I would stop speeding if the speed signs were removed. I lost the desire to speed when I trusted the Lord to get me there on time. I cannot sin if the law is removed. Sin is transgression of the law.

The law was not abolished.

I'm not going to get into whether that was written to me or to the Hebrews. What was written to me is what Paul said....that I underwent the operation of God and was baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ...a new creation.

Romans 2:15 was written by Paul

I trust in the Lord to perform that work He began in me. I am quite confident He will do it.

I do as well.

Whatever I try to do through my own efforts fails. It's because God intends us to walk entirely by faith.

This is what Paul is speaking of when he talks about walking by faith:

Romans 6:15-19 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.​

You seem to think that walking by faith means you don't have to become a slave of righteousness.

He made it holy when He explained in Matt. 5 that even looking at a woman with lust was committing adultery. And, He revealed to the Apostle Paul EXACTLY what the purpose of the Law was and what it is NOT.

The law was holy when it was given because it was given by God Himself.

The purpose of the Law was to provide a guide for people to help them discern between good and evil.
The law was not a list of what a person needed to do to please God.

Those people that pleased God by being righteous also fulfilled the requirements of the law as a side effect.
Those people that displeased God by being wicked also broke the law as a side effect.

 

[Nick M]

Paul said you have to be led of the Spirit or else you are under the law.

That means you ignore the actions of the flesh. To be carnally minded is to have your mind on the performance of the flesh. You are trying to be justified by the law. You need to review Galatians 5 if you wish to continue.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law....16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That means you ignore the actions of the flesh. To be carnally minded is to have your mind on the performance of the flesh.

No, it means you must stop doing the works of the flesh, as Paul stated in Galatians.

Galatians 5:17-24 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.​

Your choice to ignore it whenever you find yourself doing the works of the flesh is not crucifying the flesh with the affections and lusts, it is walking after the flesh.

 

[Nick M]

No, it means you must stop doing the works of the flesh, as Paul stated in Galatians.

Go to hell.

17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[glorydaz]

"perfect" means mature, if you check the definition of the Greek word.
It does not mean what the modern English word "perfect" means.

Okay, these post are getting too long, so I'm breaking them up. I'll start with this one.

In Matthew 5, Jesus said that we are to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. You say that means "mature". So, you think Jesus is saying we are to be "mature" as God is "mature"? Really? :think:

I say He was talking about our being perfect IN CHRIST, which is what He would reveal to Paul down the road, so to speak.

Colossians 1:28
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:​

What ends up happening is people think they can somehow stop sinning and be good enough...call it mature or whatever word you like, but our own righteousness can never be good enough no matter how old we get. It's why we must be given the righteousness of God through faith. It comes with the gift of salvation.

 

[patrick jane]

Romans 8:4 KJV - Philippians 3:9 KJV -

 

[God's Truth]

Go to hell.

17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

That scripture is about the Holy Spirit helping you to not sin.