justchristian
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1Timothy 1:15 is refering to Paul counting himself worst among sinners not the first among sinners to be saved.
Was Jesus a Jew?
- Thread starter BillyBob
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justchristian
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???
Mr. 5020
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Different version?justchristian said:
1 Timothy 1:15-16 KJV
(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
(16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
(16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Mr. 5020
New member
The Bible says that all Christians are members of the Body of Christ.BillyBob said:
1 Corinthians 12:12-27 KJV
(12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(14) For the body is not one member, but many.
(15) If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
(16) And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
(17) If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
(18) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
(19) And if they were all one member, where were the body?
(20) But now are they many members, yet but one body.
(21) And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
(22) Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
(23) And those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
(24) For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honor to that part which lacked:
(25) That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
(26) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.
(27) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
(12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(14) For the body is not one member, but many.
(15) If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
(16) And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
(17) If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
(18) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
(19) And if they were all one member, where were the body?
(20) But now are they many members, yet but one body.
(21) And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
(22) Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
(23) And those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
(24) For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honor to that part which lacked:
(25) That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
(26) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.
(27) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
justchristian
New member
"first" in verse 16 and "chief" in 15 are same greek meaning
NIV and NLT translate as worst. I think the overall context and logic would suggest that he is refering to first in place (worst to be saved) not first in time (first to be saved).
ItIsWritten
New member
FYI - 1Ti 1:16Mr. 5020 said:
Howbeit 235 for this 5124 cause 1223 I obtained mercy 1653 , that 2443 in 1722 me 1698 first 4413
Greek for 4413 - protos {pro'-tos}
[contracted superlative of 4253 (see below)]
Part of Speech - adj
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) first in time or place
a) in any succession of things or persons
2) first in rank
a) influence, honour
b) chief
c) principal
3) first, at the first
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 104
AV - first 84, chief 9, first day 2, former 2, misc 7; 104
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Greek for 4253 - pro {pro}
Part of Speech prep
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) before
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 48
AV - before 44, above 2, above ... ago 1, or ever 1; 48
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Moreover, the purpose clause needs to harmonize with one's understanding of the verse.
The purpose clause here being: "might show all longsuffering
for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting."
[might shew forth 1731 all 3956 longsuffering 3115, for 4314 a pattern 5296 to them which should hereafter 3195 believe 4100 on 1909 him 846 to 1519 life 2222 everlasting 166]
But enought said on this. Just food for thought.
justchristian
New member
So? The KJV is a poor translation.
justchristian
New member
Any just check the greek
I always do.
I always do.
This is a topic I have often wondered about.
As you read in my post earlier, I credit Paul with the 'invention' of 'Christianity' but what were the followers of Christ considered as before Paul came around?
Also, what is the significance of the 'Body'?
Was the thief on the cross a member?
As you read in my post earlier, I credit Paul with the 'invention' of 'Christianity' but what were the followers of Christ considered as before Paul came around?
Also, what is the significance of the 'Body'?
Was the thief on the cross a member?
Mr. 5020
New member
Ask :knight:!!BillyBob said: