Unless You Believe That I Am "HE" (GOD) You Will Die In Your Sins, John 8:24

[meshak]

God the Father and Son are one because.....they have the same attributes.
Jesus is omnipotent
He has "all authority"...Matthew 28:18

Jesus is omnipresent
"Where 2 or 3...I am there" Matt. 18:20

Jesus is omniscient.
John 1:48-50 Jesus knew where Nathaniel was.

Jesus is called God.
"Of the Son he(God the Father) says, "Thy throne oh God..."" Heb. 1:8
And,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
So the Word WAS GOD...... then compare to v14... the Word became human

Jesus is also called 'Lord'. Matt. 22:43-45

Jesus is the 'King of kings and Lord of lords'. Rev. 19:16

Jesus receives worship from angels and humans
.."Let all the angels of God worship Him" Heb. 1:6
And...
"At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, of those who are in Heaven, and those on earth, and under the earth."
Phil. 2:10

Jesus claimed to be equal to his father.
"I and the Father are one." John 10:30

Jesus is the mighty God and the everlasting Father Is.9:6

Jesus is the Creator. Col. 1:16

Jesus forgives sin Luke 7:48

We can be in agreement with Him... but we are not Him.

You have been refuted already. Repetition will not change the truth, friend.

You are adding your own assumption just like RP.

 

[Bright Raven]

You have been refuted already. Repetition will not change the truth, friend.

You are adding your own assumption just like RP.

And you said Jesus is eternal in the the Jesus is eternal thread. Therefore Jesus is God.

 

[6days]

Nobody has said that we are him! YOU are saying that because it says at John 10:30 that Jesus and the Father are "one," that means that Jesus is God. Then his disciples are ALSO God, because they are "one" with the Father and Jesus. Comprende??? So all the disciples are equal to God, if, indeed, Christ is equal to God.

No... It has nothing to do with one verse only. Its the entirety of scripture. We don't base doctrine on just single verses.

I don't see anywhere where Jesus is said to be "omnipotent." And he does have "all authority," but he was GIVEN it by his Father!

Omnipotence means all powerful. Yes, Jesus had all authority. He and God the Father both had all authority.

Jesus didn't have to be omniscient to know where Nathaniel was. His Father gave him the power to know things that ordinary men did not.

Again, we should not base doctrine on a single verse, but on the entirety of scripture.

For example 1 Chron. 28:9 says of God that He "searches all hearts and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts." . Compare to Jesus saying ""And all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts" (Rev. 2:23). Jesus was omniscient... all knowing. Peter recognized the omniscience of Jesus by saying "Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee" (John 21:17).

Hebrews 1:8 DOES NOT say that Jesus is God. To say, "Thy throne O God" is an improbable translation.... This is the way it should be translated, and the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn explains why (pages 97-101). He convinced me.

Sadly you have been convinced by heretical teaching rather than by God's Word.

BeDuhn rejects many translation TEAMS and inserts his beliefs into scripture... all the while claiming he is looking at this from a blank slate view.

Lets look at how various teams of translators show Heb. 1:8
New International Version
"Your throne, O God,

New Living Translation
"Your throne, O God,

English Standard Version
“Your throne, O God

Berean Study Bible
"Your throne, O God

Berean Literal Bible
"Your throne, O God

New American Standard Bible
"YOUR THRONE, O GOD,

King James Bible
Thy throne, O God

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Your throne, God,

International Standard Version
"Your throne, O God,

NET Bible
"Your throne, O God,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Your throne, oh God,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Your throne, O God,

New American Standard 1977
“THY THRONE, O GOD,

Jubilee Bible 2000
Thy throne, O God

Young's Literal Translation
'Thy throne, O God,

ETC.... ETC,,,,, Other translations are the same. If you wish, you can find out the scholarly credentials of the translators on each.

Only the JW Bible is different (Who are the translators? Will they tell us) says "But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne...
The reason the JW Bible is different because they inject their doctrine to fit scripture...... rather than fit the doctrine to God's Word.

 

[6days]

And you said Jesus is eternal in the the Jesus is eternal thread. Therefore Jesus is God.

Over..... and over... and over in scripture; both in OT and NT we see that Jesus is God.

 

[Krsto]

It is anti-Christ to say that Jesus was not God in the flesh, 1 John 4:2, 3.

Jesus was the Godman. He was all that God could be and all that man could be in one person.

If Jesus was not God then who was that, that turned water into wine, walked on water, stilled a storm, healed the sick, made the blind to see, raised the dead and ascended into heaven?

Already answered.

 

[Krsto]

Over..... and over... and over in scripture; both in OT and NT we see that Jesus is God.

Which leads to the next question: how, or in what way, is Jesus "God"? Understanding how people in the Old Test. like Moses were considered "God" would be helpful.

 

[Krsto]

So you believe that Jesus was just God's robot?

Oh sure, THAT'S the logical conclusion. How did I miss that one?

 

[Krsto]

he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness Phil:2:7
I and the Father are one. Jn 10:30
etc

Please explain how that answers the question.

 

[Robert Pate]

Oh sure, THAT'S the logical conclusion. How did I miss that one?

That's your conclusion, not mine.

Jesus was co-creator with God, Colossians 1:15-19.

"All things were created BY HIM and for him" Colossians 1:16.

Forum Bible has the wrong interpretation. All things were created BY HIM.

 

[Krsto]

That's your conclusion, not mine.

Jesus was co-creator with God, Colossians 1:15-19.

"All things were created BY HIM and for him" Colossians 1:16.

Forum Bible has the wrong interpretation. All things were created BY HIM.

You are going to make a case based on the English word? :wazzup:The Greek word is dia which means "through". "Through" in this case meaning with Christ as the goal, not the agent. Sorry for your confusion. Notice 2a3 below:

From Strong's Concordance re: dia - 2) through 2a) the ground or reason by which something is or is not done 2a1) by reason of 2a2) on account of 2a3) because of for this reason 2a4) therefore 2a5) on this account

 

[Robert Pate]

You are going to make a case based on the English word? :wazzup:The Greek word is dia which means "through". "Through" in this case meaning with Christ as the goal, not the agent. Sorry for your confusion. Notice 2a3 below:

From Strong's Concordance re: dia - 2) through 2a) the ground or reason by which something is or is not done 2a1) by reason of 2a2) on account of 2a3) because of for this reason 2a4) therefore 2a5) on this account

There are many scriptures that say "BY HIM" or made "BY HIM", here are just a couple.

"All things were MADE BY HIM; and without him was not anything made that was made" John 1:3.

"He was in the world, and the world was MADE BY HIM, and the world knew him not" John 1:10.

The Forum Bible is not correct.

 

[keypurr]

That's your conclusion, not mine.

Jesus was co-creator with God, Colossians 1:15-19.

"All things were created BY HIM and for him" Colossians 1:16.

Forum Bible has the wrong interpretation. All things were created BY HIM.

Scripture does not say that Jesus created the world. Jesus is a man, the true son of God is a spirit. You assume to much, better if you dig a little deeper and find out who the real son is that God created everything through.

 

[6days]

*both in OT and NT we see that Jesus is God.

Which leads to the next question: how, or in what way, is Jesus "God"?

God the Father and Son are one because.....they have the same attributes.*

Jesus is omnipotent
He has "all authority"...Matthew 28:18

Jesus is omnipresent
"Where 2 or 3...I am there"*Matt. 18:20

Jesus is omniscient.
John 1:48-50*Jesus knew where Nathaniel was.

Jesus is called God.
"Of the Son he(God the Father) says, "Thy throne oh God...""*Heb. 1:8
And,*
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."*John 1:1
So the Word WAS GOD...... then compare to v14... the Word became human

Jesus is also called 'Lord'.*Matt. 22:43-45

Jesus is the 'King of kings and Lord of lords'.*Rev. 19:16

Jesus receives worship from angels and humans
.."Let all the angels of God worship Him"*Heb. 1:6
And...
"At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, of those who are in Heaven, and those on earth, and under the earth."
Phil. 2:10

Jesus claimed to be equal to his father.
"I and the Father are one."*John 10:30

Jesus is the mighty God and the everlasting Father*Is.9:6

Jesus is the Creator.*Col. 1:16

Jesus forgives sin*Luke 7:48

Understanding how people in the Old Test. like Moses were considered "God" would be helpful.

If you think that would be helpful, there may be a cult that would embrace you.*

 

[6days]

Jesus was co-creator with God,*Colossians 1:15-19.
"All things were created BY HIM and for him"*Colossians 1:16....

Scripture does not say that Jesus created the world. ...

Actually Keypurr it does. We can even see this in the heretical JW paraphrase we see that Jesus is our Creator.
Gen. 1:26Then God said: “Let us make man in our image.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2This one was in the beginning with God. 3 *All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.... 14. So the Word became flesh

 

[keypurr]

Actually Keypurr it does. We can even see this in the heretical JW paraphrase we see that Jesus is our Creator.
Gen. 1:26Then God said: “Let us make man in our image.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2This one was in the beginning with God. 3 *All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.... 14. So the Word became flesh

God created all through his son. We agree on that.

But Jesus is not the son God used for the creation. Hebrews 1:3 tells you that his true son is the EXPRESS, EXACT IMAGE of the Father. The Father is a SPIRIT. So the WORD in John 1 is NOT Jesus, God's flesh son, it is his spiritual son that came down from heaven and was anointed into Jesus. Christ spoke through Jesus. Christ is the WORD, not Jesus. When The spirit son entered Jesus it was then God said this is my Son.

 

[keypurr]

The US/WE/OUR in Genesis is the Father and his spirit son.
Jesus was BORN many years later.

 

[Robert Pate]

Scripture does not say that Jesus created the world. Jesus is a man, the true son of God is a spirit. You assume to much, better if you dig a little deeper and find out who the real son is that God created everything through.

My Bible says... "BY HIM"

"For BY HIM were all things created" Colossians 1:16.

Jesus is the second person of the Godhead. We have been created in his image, Genesis 1:26.

 

[freelight]

prepositions.......

prepositions.......

My Bible says... "BY HIM"

"For BY HIM were all things created" Colossians 1:16.

Jesus is the second person of the Godhead. We have been created in his image, Genesis 1:26.

Again, a matter of translation eh? There are some translations that say that "all things were created in him" and a few that do say "Through him", so its a grammatical issue and contextual one, however that's 'nuanced' in the Greek.

Looks like a toss up of "by", "through" or "in".

Still Jesus is the Son of God, the representative and agent of God, his anointed servant.

Bible Gateway list of translations of this verse here.

 

[keypurr]

My Bible says... "BY HIM"



"For BY HIM were all things created" Colossians 1:16.



Jesus is the second person of the Godhead. We have been created in his image, Genesis 1:26.

Consider that any power Jesus Christ had was given to him by his God. The express image of God is a spirit being. This is the son God used to create everything. Jesus is the body mentioned in Heb 10:5, the express image needed a body to dwell in so that he could bring light into the world. This spirit spoke and worked in Jesus to enlighten us as to God's will. This express image is a form of God, yet he is not the most high God. The Father is the only true God just as Jesus tells you in John 17:3.

I believe that the Father was alone before he created his express image. He was pleased that his spirit son had his fullness. However the son is in subjection to his Father. The true son, the son of man, came down from heaven. Jesus was born, Christ was sent. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing, remember the Dove, that is when he received the power of the true son. Acts 10:38.

God can not die, however his flesh son could. God was not on the cross, Jesus was the Lamb. Scripture is clear that there is only one true God and Jesus went to his God. That should tell you something.

Peace Robert

 

[6days]

The US/WE/OUR in Genesis is the Father and his spirit son.*
Jesus was BORN many years later.

Jesus was born (became flesh) 4000 years later, but even using the JW Bible, we see that Jesus was the creator

John 1:1*In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him,*and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.... 14. So the Word became flesh