Unless You Believe That I Am "HE" (GOD) You Will Die In Your Sins, John 8:24

[Robert Pate]

So you are confirming the point that Jesus' followers are "one" with him and the Father, therefore, the disciples must be God. OR ELSE....being "one" means to be in agreement. I really think that the latter meaning is correct, and it can also be applied to John 10:30.

As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we are not really one with Christ. We need to be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:52.

 

[KingdomRose]

You no longer have to have faith? It is a one time work?

What do they put in your food? Jeesh. Faith and works are clearly delineated by James who says, "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26) So faith is NOT works.

James showed that we have to have BOTH---faith AND works. The demons believe in Jesus, but they are condemned. It takes more to truly live the life of a Christian. (James 2:14-26)

 

[KingdomRose]

Yes Keypurr...... Only God the Father knows.
I'm going to create a thread using that line.

However, the Son and the Father are one.

Yeah, just like the DISCIPLES are one with the Son and the Father! I guess they are ALL God! (John 17:21-23) Jehovah, Jesus, and the disciples. Wow, how many persons is that?

The Son and the Father are "one" because they are in agreement. The disciples are "one" with them, because they are in agreement with the Son and the Father. Or else they are God also. Which is it?

 

[Robert Pate]

What do they put in your food? Jeesh. Faith and works are clearly delineated by James who says, "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:26) So faith is NOT works.

James showed that we have to have BOTH---faith AND works. The demons believe in Jesus, but they are condemned. It takes more to truly live the life of a Christian. (James 2:14-26)

Works that are not associated with Christ and his Gospel are without the Holy Spirit and are works of the flesh.

Hearing and believing the Gospel brings the Spirit, Galatians 3:2.

It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that will produce the Christian life and good works, Ephesians 2:10.

 

[KingdomRose]

This proves He's whom He says He is by raising Himself from the dead.

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


everready

That is one of the most ridiculous ideas I've ever heard. A dead man raising himself back to life. LOL!!!! How can you stand it? The Scriptures clearly say that GOD raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus is not God because God and Jesus are clearly differentiated. "God has made him [Jesus] both Lord and Christ." (Acts 2:36) God MADE Jesus Lord and Christ. He didn't make himself! Neither did Jesus resurrect himself.

"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed THROUGH him in your midst, just as you yourselves know---this man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put him to death. But God raised him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for him to be held in its power." (Acts 2:22-24, NASB)

God. Jehovah. The Father.

 

[KingdomRose]

Jesus had unlimited power just like God, Colossians 1:16-19.

You quote one scripture and IGNORE another. You can't do that. All Scripture must harmonize. You can't pick and choose which verses you believe! Jesus said repeatedly that he could do nothing of himself.

And Colossians 1:16-19 doesn't even say that Jesus had unlimited power "just like God." All the power Jesus had was GIVEN to him by the Father. If Jesus was equal to God, he wouldn't have had to have anything GIVEN to him.

 

[KingdomRose]

this has been addressed many times but it has been dismissed all the time.

Yes! Why does that have to be so? It's so clear just how Jesus and the Father are "one." Just like they are with the disciples!:deadhorse:

 

[KingdomRose]

that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me Jn 17:21

That was no answer, turkey.:dizzy:

 

[KingdomRose]

6 days did not answer my confrontation as usual. that's how it goes when trinity believers being pointed out their inconsistency.

Yes....there are scriptures that they cannot get around, so they ignore. Pathetic.

:comeout:

 

[KingdomRose]

No... unlike Jesus, I am not sinless, omnipotent, omniscient, Holy, worthy of worship, eternal etc.
However because of Jesus, I am righteous and one with Him.

That's avoiding the question! You are now saying that you are God also, because you are "one" with Jesus and his Father, right?

 

[KingdomRose]

It is anti-Christ to say that Jesus was not God in the flesh, 1 John 4:2, 3.

Jesus was the Godman. He was all that God could be and all that man could be in one person.

If Jesus was not God then who was that, that turned water into wine, walked on water, stilled a storm, healed the sick, made the blind to see, raised the dead and ascended into heaven?

No it is not "anti-christ" to say that Jesus was not God in the flesh. I John 4:2,3 does not say that Jesus was God in the flesh! It says: "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the anti-christ, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. (4) You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." (NASB)

Doesn't it say that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh? Not God. You twist scriptures and add to them!

I can't believe that you don't know what "through" indicates!!!

Jesus was attested to by God with miracles "which God performed THROUGH him." (Acts 2:22, NASB)


God GAVE Jesus the power to perform miracles. Jesus said that he could do nothing of himself. (John 5:19)

 

[KingdomRose]

If Jesus is not God then he is not Lord.

If he is not Lord then you are still in your sins and are without hope.

What a crock of crap.:blabla:

 

[KingdomRose]

Interesting

All those scriptures quoted and yet No one agrees on their exact meaning.

Two Jews = 3 Opinions

Two Christians = No Agreement of Opinion

Maybe, That is why we need a Mediator .:thumb:

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that
speaketh better things than that of Abel.

If YOU gave it any thought, I'm sure you could see who has the better logic here. Now, just take the scriptures you just quoted. Jesus is the MEDIATOR between God and men. Notice: God is on one side, so to say, and mankind is on the other. Jesus comes between. He mediates. Therefore he can not be God, because he is mediating BETWEEN God and men.

 

[Robert Pate]

No it is not "anti-christ" to say that Jesus was not God in the flesh. I John 4:2,3 does not say that Jesus was God in the flesh! It says: "By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the anti-christ, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. (4) You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." (NASB)

Doesn't it say that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh? Not God. You twist scriptures and add to them!

I can't believe that you don't know what "through" indicates!!!

Jesus was attested to by God with miracles "which God performed THROUGH him." (Acts 2:22, NASB)


God GAVE Jesus the power to perform miracles. Jesus said that he could do nothing of himself. (John 5:19)

So you believe that Jesus was just God's robot?

 

[meshak]

So you believe that Jesus was just God's robot?

He was and is His Father's faithful Servant. That's why His Father gave Him authority and power to be our Lord.

 

[6days]

The Son and the Father are "one" because they are in agreement. The disciples are "one" with them, because they are in agreement with the Son and the Father. Or else they are God also. Which is it?

God the Father and Son are one because.....they have the same attributes.
Jesus is omnipotent
He has "all authority"...Matthew 28:18

Jesus is omnipresent
"Where 2 or 3...I am there" Matt. 18:20

Jesus is omniscient.
John 1:48-50 Jesus knew where Nathaniel was.

Jesus is called God.
"Of the Son he(God the Father) says, "Thy throne oh God..."" Heb. 1:8
And,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
So the Word WAS GOD...... then compare to v14... the Word became human

Jesus is also called 'Lord'. Matt. 22:43-45

Jesus is the 'King of kings and Lord of lords'. Rev. 19:16

Jesus receives worship from angels and humans
.."Let all the angels of God worship Him" Heb. 1:6
And...
"At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, of those who are in Heaven, and those on earth, and under the earth."
Phil. 2:10

Jesus claimed to be equal to his father.
"I and the Father are one." John 10:30

Jesus is the mighty God and the everlasting Father Is.9:6

Jesus is the Creator. Col. 1:16

Jesus forgives sin Luke 7:48

We can be in agreement with Him... but we are not Him.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yes, you do by default claim to be God, and anyone else who believes all that the scripture says about the matter sees very clearly what you are claiming. You simply do not fully understand the impact of your doctrine. Take it to its conclusion: if "Jesus is God" just because he says he is one with the Father then by default so are you because of statements made elsewhere that yet concern the very same words and context, (John 17). It is by default that you claim to be God, and do not even know it, because you choose to ignore what others have shown many times over throughout these forums.

We claim to be divine, we claim adoption as children. Christ was conceived in the womb by the Holy Ghost...that is what makes Him God.

He has imparted to believers His own divine nature, so when folk say He is not God we know that they do not have the divine nature

 

[6days]

That was no answer, turkey.:dizzy:

:turkey:

 

[KingdomRose]

So you believe that Jesus was just God's robot?

Oh be real, Robert Pate. What a stupid thing to say.

Of course Jesus was not God's "robot"! Jehovah sent him here because He knew that His Son would represent Him in the finest way. Jesus wanted to always do the things "pleasing to Him." (John 8:29) Jesus desired to please the Father.

 

[KingdomRose]

God the Father and Son are one because.....they have the same attributes.
Jesus is omnipotent
He has "all authority"...Matthew 28:18

Jesus is omnipresent
"Where 2 or 3...I am there" Matt. 18:20

Jesus is omniscient.
John 1:48-50 Jesus knew where Nathaniel was.

Jesus is called God.
"Of the Son he(God the Father) says, "Thy throne oh God..."" Heb. 1:8
And,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
So the Word WAS GOD...... then compare to v14... the Word became human

Jesus is also called 'Lord'. Matt. 22:43-45

Jesus is the 'King of kings and Lord of lords'. Rev. 19:16

Jesus receives worship from angels and humans
.."Let all the angels of God worship Him" Heb. 1:6
And...
"At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, of those who are in Heaven, and those on earth, and under the earth."
Phil. 2:10

Jesus claimed to be equal to his father.
"I and the Father are one." John 10:30

Jesus is the mighty God and the everlasting Father Is.9:6

Jesus is the Creator. Col. 1:16

Jesus forgives sin Luke 7:48

We can be in agreement with Him... but we are not Him.

Nobody has said that we are him! YOU are saying that because it says at John 10:30 that Jesus and the Father are "one," that means that Jesus is God. Then his disciples are ALSO God, because they are "one" with the Father and Jesus. Comprende??? So all the disciples are equal to God, if, indeed, Christ is equal to God.

I don't see anywhere where Jesus is said to be "omnipotent." And he does have "all authority," but he was GIVEN it by his Father!

Jesus didn't have to be omniscient to know where Nathaniel was. His Father gave him the power to know things that ordinary men did not.

Hebrews 1:8 DOES NOT say that Jesus is God. To say, "Thy throne O God" is an improbable translation. The writer of that verse in Hebrews was quoting Psalm 45:6. Psalm 45:6, as quoted from the Jewish Publication Society's Tanakh reads like this:

"Your divine throne is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity." Nothing about "O God." The throne of the Messiah would have the backing of God---God, from whence the power and authority came. That is why the Jewish writer of the Psalm called it a "divine throne." The writer did not call the subject of the psalm "God." Another way to say "your divine throne is everlasting" is to say, "God is your throne forever." All of the Son's authority comes from God. This is the way it should be translated, and the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn explains why (pages 97-101). He convinced me.

The final stroke to end the ridiculous "O God" business comes in the very next verse, verse 9 in Hebrews 1. It sticks close to the verse at Psalm 45:8.

"You love righteousness and hate wickedness; rightly has GOD, YOUR GOD, chosen to anoint you with oil of gladness over all your peers."

The translators of Heb.1:8 overlooked verse 9, apparently! They botched the translation of verse 8 really badly. Verse 9 contradicts what they rendered, due to their incredible BIAS. What do you know....the Son has a God! Guess what....he can't BE God, then.