Understand scripture based in use of terms

[Right Divider]

Paul's writings supplemented the writings of the other apostles, they did not supplant them.

Paul's epistles did NEITHER.

Paul was given REVELATION directly from the Lord Jesus Christ AFTER His ascension.

You are doing a horrible job of showing that Paul is someone a believer in Jesus the Messiah should to listen to.

You are incorrect, as usual.

Your argument is flawed, as is your conclusion.

Wrong again, you are.

In Paul's writings, he was not laying the same foundation again that was laid by the other apostles, which was the teachings of Jesus Himself that were to be passed on to all believers by the people that Jesus taught during his life.

On that part, I completely agree.

Paul was writing to the believers who were living in the time between Jesus ascending to heaven and Jesus returning to earth to set up the kingdom of God.

Indeed, and also believers in a completely new and difference dispensation of God.

 

[Right Divider]

Don't try to split the gospels off from Paul's writings as if they were about a different Jesus.

Same Jesus... different ministry, different dispensation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Indeed, and also believers in a completely new and difference dispensation of God.

Same Jesus... different ministry, different dispensation.

Paul said it was the same dispensation, merely a new audience was added to receive the dispensation along with the original audience.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul said it was the same dispensation, merely a new audience was added to receive the dispensation along with the original audience.

No, he most certainly did not say that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

No, he most certainly did not say that.

Your misunderstand of Paul's words does not change what he said.

Paul said it was the same dispensation, merely a new audience was added to receive the dispensation along with the original audience.

The only "mystery" was that the Gentiles could be added to the same promise that was made to the children of Israel.

Ephesians 3:2-6 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:​

 

[Right Divider]

Your misunderstand of Paul's words does not change what he said.

Go ahead and lie if you like.

The only "mystery" was that the Gentiles could be added to the same promise that was made to the children of Israel.

Gentiles could already join with Israel.... that was no mystery.

The body of Christ has a different calling than the nation of Israel.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Gentiles could already join with Israel.... that was no mystery.

Gentiles could only join with Israel by conversion.
The mystery, the secret that was hidden, is that Gentiles can join in on the promises made to the children of Israel without conversion.

The body of Christ has a different calling than the nation of Israel.

Yes, the body of Christ has the mission to move the children of Israel to jealousy.

Deuteronomy 32:21 21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.​

However, the body of Christ and the children of Israel are both fellow heirs of the exact same kingdom that was promised to the children of Israel.

Acts 28:30-31 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.​

 

[Right Divider]

Gentiles could only join with Israel by conversion.
The mystery, the secret that was hidden, is that Gentiles can join in on the promises made to the children of Israel without conversion.

The mystery of Christ is the body of Christ which does NOT get "all of the promises made to the children of Israel".

However, the body of Christ and the children of Israel are both fellow heirs of the exact same kingdom that was promised to the children of Israel.

Nope.

When the kingdom comes, Israel will take its place as the head of the nations.

Rev 21:9-14 KJV And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. (10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (11) Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

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Rev 21:22-27 KJV And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. (23) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. (24) And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.​

Also foretold by Isaiah:

Isa 60:10-12 KJV And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. (11) Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought. (12) For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.​

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Isa 60:14-16 KJV The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel. (15) Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations. (16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Gentiles could only join with Israel by conversion.
The mystery, the secret that was hidden, is that Gentiles can join in on the promises made to the children of Israel without conversion.

The mystery of Christ is the body of Christ which does NOT get "all of the promises made to the children of Israel".

How did that pesky word "all" get into your attempt to quote what I said?
I didn't put it there.

There are specific promises which the Gentile believers share in.

Ephesians 3:6 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:​

The promise that God would raise us from death:

Acts 26:6-8 6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers: 7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?​

And the promised kingdom.

James 2:5 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?​

Acts 28:23 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

 

[Right Divider]

How did that pesky word "all" get into your attempt to quote what I said?
I didn't put it there.

I was not trying to put words in your mouth, but that seemed to be where you were headed.

In the scripture that you ignored, it is clear that the gentiles nations are to serve Israel in the future when Christ returns to establish His kingdom. The same kingdom where the TWELVE apostles will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel.

Paul gets no throne.... why?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I was not trying to put words in your mouth, but that seemed to be where you were headed.

Not at "all".

In the scripture that you ignored, it is clear that the gentiles nations are to serve Israel in the future when Christ returns to establish His kingdom.

Yes, the nations of the Gentiles are to serve the nation of Israel.
However, Paul was not speaking about the Gentile nations receiving the promises made to the nation Israel.
Paul spoke of individual Gentile believers receiving specific promises made to the individuals of the children of Israel that are not cut off from the people.

The same kingdom where the TWELVE apostles will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel.

Yes, that very same kingdom that Jesus is given to rule when He comes down from heaven to gather His elect.

Paul gets no throne.... why?

We don't know who gets to sit on the 12th throne, whether it would be Matthias, Paul, Apollos, or someone else.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, the nations of the Gentiles are to serve the nation of Israel.
However, Paul was not speaking about the Gentile nations receiving the promises made to the nation Israel.
Paul spoke of individual Gentile believers receiving specific promises made to the individuals of the children of Israel that are not cut off from the people.

Give us the itemized list of these promises.

Yes, that very same kingdom that Jesus is given to rule when He comes down from heaven to gather His elect.

Which elect?

We don't know who gets to sit on the 12th throne, whether it would be Matthias, Paul, Apollos, or someone else.

That's a ridiculous statement! Matthias replaced Judas and was counted with the eleven and that makes twelve.

We know exactly who the twelve are!

 

[genuineoriginal]

Give us the itemized list of these promises.

I already did.

Which elect?

The elect mentioned in the New Testament.

That's a ridiculous statement! Matthias replaced Judas and was counted with the eleven and that makes twelve.

Now you are making a ridiculous statement.
Matthias was chosen by the eleven to be part of the twelve, but was not chosen by Jesus as one of the twelve, therefore we can't know for sure whether Matthias is counted among the twelve that will rule the twelve tribes of Israel or if Jesus has chosen someone else for that role.

 

[Right Divider]

I already did.

Please point us to it or repeat it. Thanks.

The elect mentioned in the New Testament.

Vague and ambigious.

Now you are making a ridiculous statement.

Wrong.

Matthias was chosen by the eleven to be part of the twelve, but was not chosen by Jesus as one of the twelve, therefore we can't know for sure whether Matthias is counted among the twelve that will rule the twelve tribes of Israel or if Jesus has chosen someone else for that role.

That is the ridiculous statement.

Matthias WAS counted among the twelve. Scripture is quite clear. You are the one making a problem.

Act 1:26 KJV And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.​

NUMBERED with the eleven apostles means "counted among" them.

Act 2:14 KJV But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:​

Again "counted among" the twelve!

All twelve were "filled with the Holy Ghost":

Act 2:1-4 KJV And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Give us the itemized list of these promises.

The promise that God would raise us from death:

Acts 26:6-8 6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers: 7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?​

And the promised kingdom.

James 2:5 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?​

Acts 28:23 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Matthias WAS counted among the twelve. Scripture is quite clear. You are the one making a problem.

Act 1:26 KJV And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.​

Did you notice that the eleven apostles are mentioned as a specific group?

Act 2:14 KJV But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:​

Even after Matthias was selected by lot to be the twelfth apostle, only the eleven apostles were recognized as true apostles.

 

[Right Divider]

And the promised kingdom.

James 2:5 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?​

James is NOT writing to gentiles

Jas 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.​

When James writes "my brethren" he is referring to the TWELVE tribes.

 

[Right Divider]

Did you notice that the eleven apostles are mentioned as a specific group?

Only to show that Matthias was included WITH THEM.

It clearly says NUMBERED WITH THEM.

Even after Matthias was selected by lot to be the twelfth apostle, only the eleven apostles were recognized as true apostles.

Utter nonsense, per your usual.

 

[genuineoriginal]

James is NOT writing to gentiles

No, but James was writing about the same Kingdom of God that Paul preached.

Are you going to claim that Paul did not teach the kingdom of God to both the Jews and the Gentiles?

Acts 28:23 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.​

Acts 19:8 8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Acts 14:21-22 21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, 22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.​

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Only to show that Matthias was included WITH THEM.

It clearly says NUMBERED WITH THEM.

But it doesn't say anywhere that God counted Matthias as one of the twelve that would rule over the twelve tribes of Israel.
Your insistence on Matthias would be one of the rulers over the twelve tribes of Israel is foolish, where keeping an open mind about the possibility of Paul or someone else will take that place is not foolish.

If the Bible does not explicitly state something, it is better to be open to alternatives than to insist it is the only possible answer.