exposing democrats should not be a crime - no matter who does it - do you think it should be?
Trump: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
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exposing democrats should not be a crime - no matter who does it - do you think it should be?
RealityJerk
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He should also condemn the racism and bigotry on the other side, not just the extreme right. The so called "Black Lives Matter" is filled with black racists. Black people can be just as racist as anybody else.
RealityJerk
New member
The Russian collusion canard has absolutely no substance to it. Not one shred of conclusive evidence. If anything, what is more likely, is that the DNC computers, weren't even hacked. It was an insider, who released the emails to Wikileaks. A member of the DNC staff, disgusted with the way the DNC was treating Bernie Sanders and siding with Hillary. It was probably an inside job.
Is hacking a crime or not? When this comes full scale and illegally seized info of the Republicans is exposed ... by the Russians, will you say the same? Also, there is no good reason to believe that those who would steal info would not edit it as well.
did the democrats reveal the originals to show that they were edited?
It's not their responsibility to DEFEND themselves. They were the victims. By virtue of Putin, Russians and the Trump campaign.
That's not what we're talking about here. The Russians attempted to use a carefully and clandestinely orchestrated campaign of disinformation and selective leaking to influence our election. If you're okay with that you have more problems than a physics book and you're offering aid and comfort to the actual enemy to serve your blinding, bias driven contempt for a political rival. That's tragic at best and treacherous at worst.
A lie not even die hard Republicans privy to the intelligence on hand believe, which is why Trump's own party pushed hard for sanctions.
You should have to register your agency. You aren't privy to the classified intelligence on hand. Those who are differ.
Not even remotely true. And what's with you and the giant font anyway? Is it a Russian thing?
I still can't believe trump is president and if it was because of the russians, which I will never believe, I would thank the russians
Is hacking morally right? Would you thank them if they had targeted Trump (as they did the OTHER R candidates)?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
RealityJerk
New member
Town Heretic writes:
That's not true, of course. For instance, the hacking of the DNC and its trail to Russia was confirmed by independent firms within our country.
Response:
Who are these so called “independent firms”, that have supposedly confirmed the Russian government hacked DNC computers? Cybersecurity firm “CrowdStrike” conveniently concluded within one day that the Russian government was behind the attack on the DNC servers. I say conveniently, because the DNC paid for CrowdStrike’s services and it’s fair to say the DNC had an unhealthy fixation on all things Russia for the duration of the election cycle.
The evolution of public discourse on this issue, is worthy of analysis. Possibilities became allegations, and these became probabilities. Then the probabilities turned into certainties, and these evolved into what are now taken to be established truths. All of this was accomplished via the indefensibly corrupt manipulation of language, constantly repeated in our mainstream media.
Forensic investigators, intelligence analysts, system designers, program architects, and computer scientists of long experience and strongly credentialed are now producing evidence, completely debunking the official narrative that asserts that the Russian government hacked DNC computers. People like William Binney, formerly the NSA’s technical director for world geopolitical and military analysis and designer of many agency programs now in use; Kirk Wiebe, formerly a senior analyst at the NSA’s SIGINT Automation Research Center. Edward Loomis, formerly technical director in the NSA’s Office of Signal Processing and Ray McGovern, an intelligence analyst for nearly three decades and formerly chief of the CIA’s Soviet Foreign Policy Branch.
All of these men have decades of experience in matters concerning Russian intelligence and its related technologies. These researchers have concluded that there was no Russian hacking involved, in the release of the DNC emails. Not by the Russians, not by anyone else. Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak, a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s computers.
Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent. Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. Guccifer taking responsibility on June 15th for an intrusion the DNC reported on June 14th, is essential to the official narrative implicating Russia. To put the point simply, forensic science now devastates this narrative.
Town Heretic Responds:
The FBI has been involved in procuring information on their activities within our country...
Response:
The FBI has been doing that for 90+ years, that doesn't in any way imply, much less prove that Russia hacked the DNC computers and released the dirt on Hillary. And like I mentioned in my previous posts, even if that were true, we have no moral high ground to condemn Russia for doing it, when we are engaged in much worse meddling around the world. Some of this meddling, involves spreading NATO into Eastern Europe and deploying missiles on Russia's border. It involves trying to destroy Russia economically, through UN sanctions and creating political, public descent in Russia against Putin's government, by funding NGOs that ferment civil unrest and eventually war.
So how can we point our crooked feculent finger at Russia, for preferring one American presidential candidate over another, and taking steps to influence the American public, by the use of propaganda? We do that often and much worse. We do it more provocatively, with the use of much more than just propaganda. We start and sponsor, civil wars, and that has a much more destructive outcome, than releasing some dirt on Hillary.
As a side note. In 2015, the Obama administration made a strenuous and not-terribly-well-hidden effort to swing the Israeli elections toward the opposition and away from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The State Department gave $300,000 to a “pro-peace” Israeli NGO, which then paid political activists whose goal was to unseat Netanyahu. Was that meddling in a foreign nation's presidential campaign? Yes. We do it all of the time, with propaganda and often by sponsoring violent civil action.
Town Heretic writes:
.”..and the CIA, as it should, has been following the action outside our borders. That much we know.“
Response:
The CIA following Russian “action outside our borders”, hasn't proved anything in regards to Russia hacking the DNC computers. That much we do know.
Town Heretic writes:
“What the members of Congress have been privy to has led them, Republican and Democrat alike, to the same conclusion.”
Response:
The opinions of certain politicians, proves nothing. They have their own motives, for implicating Russia, and it has nothing to do with reality. It has more to do with their own selfish interests and that of their corporate campaign sponsors/corporate handlers, who profit from our adversarial foreign policy towards Russia.
We don't have to try to destroy Russia's energy sector, a vital aspect of Russia's economy, in order to successfully compete in the world market with Russian oil, gas..etc. Some dimwitted, power hungry psychopaths in Washington, see Russiagate, as an opportunity to further our national economic interests, but they're actually leading us to a hot-war with Russia. And of course, there will always be Americans like yourself, who support these corrupt, saber rattling, warmongering politicians, hence that's why they remain in office.
The unconscious majority, that are more concerned with Monday night football, and “Dancing With The Stars”, and don't care what politicians are doing behind the scenes, and jingoist American imperialists like yourself who appeal to some warped nihilistic, “sexy”, Darwinian utilitarianism, that justifies whatever violence and destruction we cause around the world, in the name of our supposed “national interest”. That's the problem. Not Russia supposedly “hacking” the DNC computers and releasing some dirt on a corrupt American politician.
Town Heretic writes:
“Here's a link to a pretty good job of putting together a time line on the topic by the Washington Post.
A couple of highlights. In August prior to the election the CIA produced a report with information from deep sources within Moscow a directive by Putin to damage the Clinton campaign. A combined NSA, CIA and FBI task force is formed. It's interesting reading. “
Response:
This is also a very interesting read:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-th...-vets-challenge-the-forensic-evidence/5600944
It's pretty clear, that the Russian governemnt wasn't involved in hacking the DNC computers, it was a leak. Inside job. That's what all of the evidence is pointing to. Nonetheless, I'll say it again..Even if it were true, that the Russian governemnt did this, that doesn't justify our regime change projects and warmongering. Poking the bear with NATO and deploying missiles on its border, is stupid. It's wrong. Trying to destory Russia's economy, through sanctions, in order to get an edge in the world energy market is a crime. It's an act of war. Any country that does that to us, in order to get some economic advantage over us, would have to go to war with us, because we wouldn't permit them to do that to our economy. And we shouldn't, and neither should they allow us to do that to them. I'm a human being, before I'm an American. So thank the Russians for not firing a few ICBMs our way, and just settling for releasing dirt on Hillary.
You have a bad sense of proportion. Like for example, claiming that because Castro declared Cuba a "training ground" for communist guerillas, we should respond by deploying nuclear weapons on Russia's border in Turkey. Assuming that you have the chronology of events correct, a more logical response would be to train guerillas to invade Cuba, and that's what we did. I personally know a few survivors of the Bay of Pigs invasion. All of that would've been unnecessary, if we had kept Batista in power, and hadn't followed your "darwinian", "sexy" provocative, bloody foreign policy in the first place. We create the conditions for crises, and then ironically wonder why we're in a crises.
That's not true, of course. For instance, the hacking of the DNC and its trail to Russia was confirmed by independent firms within our country.
Response:
Who are these so called “independent firms”, that have supposedly confirmed the Russian government hacked DNC computers? Cybersecurity firm “CrowdStrike” conveniently concluded within one day that the Russian government was behind the attack on the DNC servers. I say conveniently, because the DNC paid for CrowdStrike’s services and it’s fair to say the DNC had an unhealthy fixation on all things Russia for the duration of the election cycle.
The evolution of public discourse on this issue, is worthy of analysis. Possibilities became allegations, and these became probabilities. Then the probabilities turned into certainties, and these evolved into what are now taken to be established truths. All of this was accomplished via the indefensibly corrupt manipulation of language, constantly repeated in our mainstream media.
Forensic investigators, intelligence analysts, system designers, program architects, and computer scientists of long experience and strongly credentialed are now producing evidence, completely debunking the official narrative that asserts that the Russian government hacked DNC computers. People like William Binney, formerly the NSA’s technical director for world geopolitical and military analysis and designer of many agency programs now in use; Kirk Wiebe, formerly a senior analyst at the NSA’s SIGINT Automation Research Center. Edward Loomis, formerly technical director in the NSA’s Office of Signal Processing and Ray McGovern, an intelligence analyst for nearly three decades and formerly chief of the CIA’s Soviet Foreign Policy Branch.
All of these men have decades of experience in matters concerning Russian intelligence and its related technologies. These researchers have concluded that there was no Russian hacking involved, in the release of the DNC emails. Not by the Russians, not by anyone else. Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak, a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s computers.
Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent. Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. Guccifer taking responsibility on June 15th for an intrusion the DNC reported on June 14th, is essential to the official narrative implicating Russia. To put the point simply, forensic science now devastates this narrative.
Town Heretic Responds:
The FBI has been involved in procuring information on their activities within our country...
Response:
The FBI has been doing that for 90+ years, that doesn't in any way imply, much less prove that Russia hacked the DNC computers and released the dirt on Hillary. And like I mentioned in my previous posts, even if that were true, we have no moral high ground to condemn Russia for doing it, when we are engaged in much worse meddling around the world. Some of this meddling, involves spreading NATO into Eastern Europe and deploying missiles on Russia's border. It involves trying to destroy Russia economically, through UN sanctions and creating political, public descent in Russia against Putin's government, by funding NGOs that ferment civil unrest and eventually war.
So how can we point our crooked feculent finger at Russia, for preferring one American presidential candidate over another, and taking steps to influence the American public, by the use of propaganda? We do that often and much worse. We do it more provocatively, with the use of much more than just propaganda. We start and sponsor, civil wars, and that has a much more destructive outcome, than releasing some dirt on Hillary.
As a side note. In 2015, the Obama administration made a strenuous and not-terribly-well-hidden effort to swing the Israeli elections toward the opposition and away from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The State Department gave $300,000 to a “pro-peace” Israeli NGO, which then paid political activists whose goal was to unseat Netanyahu. Was that meddling in a foreign nation's presidential campaign? Yes. We do it all of the time, with propaganda and often by sponsoring violent civil action.
Town Heretic writes:
.”..and the CIA, as it should, has been following the action outside our borders. That much we know.“
Response:
The CIA following Russian “action outside our borders”, hasn't proved anything in regards to Russia hacking the DNC computers. That much we do know.
Town Heretic writes:
“What the members of Congress have been privy to has led them, Republican and Democrat alike, to the same conclusion.”
Response:
The opinions of certain politicians, proves nothing. They have their own motives, for implicating Russia, and it has nothing to do with reality. It has more to do with their own selfish interests and that of their corporate campaign sponsors/corporate handlers, who profit from our adversarial foreign policy towards Russia.
We don't have to try to destroy Russia's energy sector, a vital aspect of Russia's economy, in order to successfully compete in the world market with Russian oil, gas..etc. Some dimwitted, power hungry psychopaths in Washington, see Russiagate, as an opportunity to further our national economic interests, but they're actually leading us to a hot-war with Russia. And of course, there will always be Americans like yourself, who support these corrupt, saber rattling, warmongering politicians, hence that's why they remain in office.
The unconscious majority, that are more concerned with Monday night football, and “Dancing With The Stars”, and don't care what politicians are doing behind the scenes, and jingoist American imperialists like yourself who appeal to some warped nihilistic, “sexy”, Darwinian utilitarianism, that justifies whatever violence and destruction we cause around the world, in the name of our supposed “national interest”. That's the problem. Not Russia supposedly “hacking” the DNC computers and releasing some dirt on a corrupt American politician.
Town Heretic writes:
“Here's a link to a pretty good job of putting together a time line on the topic by the Washington Post.
A couple of highlights. In August prior to the election the CIA produced a report with information from deep sources within Moscow a directive by Putin to damage the Clinton campaign. A combined NSA, CIA and FBI task force is formed. It's interesting reading. “
Response:
This is also a very interesting read:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/was-th...-vets-challenge-the-forensic-evidence/5600944
It's pretty clear, that the Russian governemnt wasn't involved in hacking the DNC computers, it was a leak. Inside job. That's what all of the evidence is pointing to. Nonetheless, I'll say it again..Even if it were true, that the Russian governemnt did this, that doesn't justify our regime change projects and warmongering. Poking the bear with NATO and deploying missiles on its border, is stupid. It's wrong. Trying to destory Russia's economy, through sanctions, in order to get an edge in the world energy market is a crime. It's an act of war. Any country that does that to us, in order to get some economic advantage over us, would have to go to war with us, because we wouldn't permit them to do that to our economy. And we shouldn't, and neither should they allow us to do that to them. I'm a human being, before I'm an American. So thank the Russians for not firing a few ICBMs our way, and just settling for releasing dirt on Hillary.
You have a bad sense of proportion. Like for example, claiming that because Castro declared Cuba a "training ground" for communist guerillas, we should respond by deploying nuclear weapons on Russia's border in Turkey. Assuming that you have the chronology of events correct, a more logical response would be to train guerillas to invade Cuba, and that's what we did. I personally know a few survivors of the Bay of Pigs invasion. All of that would've been unnecessary, if we had kept Batista in power, and hadn't followed your "darwinian", "sexy" provocative, bloody foreign policy in the first place. We create the conditions for crises, and then ironically wonder why we're in a crises.
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RealityJerk
New member
In response to Town Heretic's reasoning in regards to "regime change" in Japan, Germany and Italy, after WW2.
The regime change in Japan, Germany, and Italy, was after a world war. You can't compare that to what occurred in Cuba and many other countries, when the US government, American politicians, serving the financial interests of certain corporations and American industries, start wars. The Neocon drive for "full spectral dominance" in the middle east and throughout the world, can not compare to us reconstructing Japan after a devastating world war with that country and us dropping two nuclear bombs on its civilian population. Again, your sense of proportion is skewed. You like comparing oranges and cucumbers.
Moreover, your assertion that I'm claiming that engaging in a regime change effort abroad, is ALWAYS WRONG AND UNWARRANTED, is a straw man argument. I never proposed such nonsense.
The regime change in Japan, Germany, and Italy, was after a world war. You can't compare that to what occurred in Cuba and many other countries, when the US government, American politicians, serving the financial interests of certain corporations and American industries, start wars. The Neocon drive for "full spectral dominance" in the middle east and throughout the world, can not compare to us reconstructing Japan after a devastating world war with that country and us dropping two nuclear bombs on its civilian population. Again, your sense of proportion is skewed. You like comparing oranges and cucumbers.
Moreover, your assertion that I'm claiming that engaging in a regime change effort abroad, is ALWAYS WRONG AND UNWARRANTED, is a straw man argument. I never proposed such nonsense.
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it is not as bad as killing babies and the democrats are okay with that
Why? Because now you can take off the bedsheets?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
always puzzled when this pops up
you do realize, i hope, that we had bombed the total crap out of japan before august 6, 1945
especially see: The Operation Meetinghouse firebombing of Tokyo on the night of 9 March 1945
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
out of line rex - you know chrys isn't a kluxer :nono:
You'd thank a foreign government for violating the law and influencing an election. Well, it's a good thing you aren't in uniform...or is it?
How long should it take, in your view?
That's a tidy little package right there. Don't trust the DNC's complaints about being attacked by Russia because...they are always complaining about how Russia is attacking them.
Why don't you just say that you trust Russia more than you trust the Democrats? It's probably closer to the mark.
After this past weekend's violence, I start to suspect anyone still positive about Trump might have a few secret allegiances.
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