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JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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glorydaz said:
Adultery and homosexuality should not be a crime, although they are certainly wrong in the eyes of God.
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:shocked:

GD, I'm actually shocked by this claim you just made...

Have you forgotten?

“You shall not commit adultery. - Exodus 20:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:14&version=NKJV

‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. - Leviticus 20:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus20:10&version=NKJV
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

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JudgeRightly said:
:shocked:

GD, I'm actually shocked by this claim you just made...

Have you forgotten?

“You shall not commit adultery. - Exodus 20:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:14&version=NKJV

‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. - Leviticus 20:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus20:10&version=NKJV
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I said it was wrong in God's eyes. I understand that.

But, what is a crime under this world system is not the same as sin under God's.
 
JudgeRightly

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ok doser said:
what inherent qualities exist in rape and murder that don't exist in adultery and homosexuality?
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glorydaz said:
A direct innocent victim.
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As a victim of adultery myself, I can say that I was a direct victim of the crime, and am still trying to deal with the legal repercussions almost A YEAR LATER. And not only that, it is a direct affront to God.

The direct victim of homosexuality is the nation itself, and indirectly, society as a whole.

glorydaz said:
I said it was wrong in God's eyes. I understand that.
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You're missing the point.

God didn't just forbid it, because it was a sin, He made it a crime, punishable by death.

The law against adultery is a moral law, applicable to all people, regardless of border, tongue, or ethnicity, just like the laws against murder, theft, and bearing false witness.

But, what is a crime under this world system is not the same as sin under God's.
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Not all sin is crime, GD, we seem to agree on that much.

But I say this to your shame, you seem to have forgotten that all crime is sin, and that moral laws given by God are applicable to all humans.

God forbade adultery because it directly harms society, and it directly harms the spouses of those involved, and even more so any children.

That's why it's a crime. That's why it should be a crime. And that's why it needs to be made a crime again.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

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JudgeRightly said:
As a victim of adultery myself, I can say that I was a direct victim of the crime, and am still trying to deal with the legal repercussions almost A YEAR LATER. And not only that, it is a direct affront to God.

The direct victim of homosexuality is the nation itself, and indirectly, society as a whole.



You're missing the point.

God didn't just forbid it, because it was a sin, He made it a crime, punishable by death.

The law against adultery is a moral law, applicable to all people, regardless of border, tongue, or ethnicity, just like the laws against murder, theft, and bearing false witness.



Not all sin is crime, GD, we seem to agree on that much.

But I say this to your shame, you seem to have forgotten that all crime is sin, and that moral laws given by God are applicable to all humans.

God forbade adultery because it directly harms society, and it directly harms the spouses of those involved, and even more so any children.

That's why it's a crime. That's why it should be a crime. And that's why it needs to be made a crime again.
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Don't be saying things are to my "shame", dear brother. It isn't your place to do so, and I'm quite sure we can have a discussion without going there.

If you're seriously considering God's laws can be enforced in this world of sin, then you are mistaken.

In fact, you are mistaken to think that laws would effect righteous living. Make a law, and man will break it.

Make a law where the government is allowed to execute adulterers, and there would be few left to govern, especially if you took into account the true definition of adultery. If you're talking about making the act itself a crime, for which man can be executed by the government, you'll end up with the same abuses we see in Saudi Arabia. You simply cannot enforce righteous behaviour with the making or the enforcing of laws.

And that's my point....I see no shame in saying so.
 
George Affleck

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ok doser said:
i've made no secret over the years of my opinion of artie and his penchant for abusive, drunken trolling, so i won't get into that here

instead, I'd like to understand your reasoning, George, and I think it would be useful to walk it back a bit and see if you can answer this question that you kind of side-stepped, which is fair enough, it may not have been written well.


so, i'll modify it, simplify it and ask again:


In this "gospel of grace" do you believe that anything should be a crime?

should murder be a crime?

should adultery be a crime?

should rape be a crime?

should homosexuality be a crime?



take note that these are simple, focused questions that deserve a simple, focused answer

also note that I removed capital punishment from the discussion
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Thanks for asking this in a reasonable fashion. JR is on ignore now because I don't have time for his foolishness. He doesn't know how to engage and doesn't listen anyway.

In one of my other posts I mentioned that we must make a distinction between civil/common law crime and sin according to biblical law (10 commandments, etc).

The short answer to your question is yes, absolutely some on this list should be a crime in our common law. And there is an overlap to what is and what is not sin (specifically defined). Please notice that in your list are things that affect others directly and those that don't. Murder and rape for example are direct violence upon an individual against their wishes. Adultery and homosexuality are personal and non-violent. Nevertheless they are still sin in God's eyes.

Because biblical law is the model for civil law, there are some overlaps. But notice that slavery, something we have outlawed, is not, according to the Bible, a specific sin enumerated anywhere. Bottom line? It is a mistake to conflate sin and crime.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

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George Affleck said:
Hi gd!

I was saying goodbye to JR.
Now that you're here all is well! :)
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I think JR is talking about in an ideal world. I sorta jumped in here without reading everything.

We can't trust our "judges" today any more than they could in the days when Israel had Judges. God tried to warn them about that. The government's power should be very limited.

1 Samuel 8:1-7
1 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel. 2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba. 3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment. 4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. 7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.​
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

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glorydaz said:
What? Why would you suggest such a thing? I'm sure you're misunderstanding him.

It's very easy to miss what someone else is saying...you should know that, George.
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JudgeRightly said:
Yup! :)

Right wing religious fanatic, homophobic, anti-choice truck driver, that's me!

They also have the right to seek help getting rid of their homosexual tendencies, but mostly they have the right to be executed.
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I asked "Would you also say that adulterers should be executed?"

Answer:

JudgeRightly said:
Yes.
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That's 40% of the population right there.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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George Affleck said:
I asked "Would you also say that adulterers should be executed?"

Answer:



That's 40% of the population right there.
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You seem to think that I am saying they should just be executed on the spot whenever they're found...

Thankfully, that's not what God demands. He demands a fair and speedy trial, with a conviction coming about through two to three witnesses.

Judge, accused, accusers, evidence, and a place for the trial to occur.

That's all that's needed.

If two or three witnesses cannot be brought forth, then there is no guilt established (note: this does not mean that any actual criminals are not guilty, just that the judge could not find the accused guilty.

The adultery would stop pretty quickly after the first few trials, and that 40% (wherever you got that number) would drop quickly to or to near zero.
 
JudgeRightly

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George Affleck said:
It's a matter of prosecution, not necessarily legality. In some states adultery is still technically illegal with fines or even imprisonment possible but are never enforced.
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Making it effectively legal. :noid:
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

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I really like the 2 or 3 witnesses requirement for prosecution. Christian-Sharia law does not allow for heresay.

"Yes your honour, we took a shortcut to the park that day. Just so happens to be right through the bedroom of our neighbour's house and out the back window. Well anyway, we happened to suspect that a lot was going on under the covers there and we stopped and walked over to the bed. We said; "Jill! Is that you?". And she said "Yes". You see your honour I couldn't see the faces under the covers so I made them get out of bed and put on the light so we could identify them both. And sure enough, It wasn't Bill under those covers!"

These days couples like playing the adultery card. It helps them get a divorce faster.
 
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