Trump: Racist Firestorm

[genuineoriginal]

By that logic you're asserting that black people in general have more "bad hombres" than white people. Is that your position?

Environment has a lot more to do with whether one neighborhood produces more "bad hombres" than another neighborhood.
Even the "bad hombres" like to claim that their reason for being bad is because they came from "the hood".

 

[genuineoriginal]

all of the nations were politically unstable at the time

That makes it racist?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Now more than 70% of black kids are born into single parent households. It's killing the black community

That is the real problem

 

[The Barbarian]

You are looking in the wrong place.
Saudi Arabia is part of the 1951 Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement and their troops have been training with American troops continually since that time.

We're not talking about mutual defense. We're talking about stopping terrorists from coming to the United States. And the fact is, most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. I understand that Trump has a lot of business with Saudi Arabia, and that,to Trump, was a bigger deal than the fact that it is the largest source if Islamic terrorists.

That is a much more compelling reason for Saudi Arabia to be exempted from the travel ban than the things you are imagining.

No imagination required...

1.Fifteen of the 19 hijackers held Saudi passports — and some had connections with those in the Saudi Arabian government at home and abroad. Saudi officials even stamped passports in a certain way as to denote whether the person was an al Qaeda member.

"Saudi Arabia, I like the Saudis," Trump said at a July 2015 rally. "I make a lot of money with them. They buy all sorts of my stuff. All kinds of toys from Trump. They pay me millions and hundred of millions."
https://www.apnews.com/cafffbc8448e49329e04ef7941c2b85a

And that, to Trump was much more important than the fact that the terrorists were Saudis.

2. Officials in the Saudi embassy in Germany, for example, supported Mohamed Atta, the lead hijacker, saying that a Saudi national was staying in the same Virginia hotel with several other terrorists the night before the attacks.

3. Officials from Saudi embassies allegedly helped two hijackers in particular — Salem al-Hazmi and Khalid Al-Mihdhar — for a period of 18 months before 9/11, providing them with money, advice, contacts, transportation, assistance with learning English, and obtaining IDs.

They also helped them attain access to pilot training and other material support and resources ultimately used on 9/11.

4. The Saudi royal family, who for years feared al Qaeda and tried to appease them in a bid to avoid losing power, were aware that funds from several charities had been funneled to Osama bin Laden's terror network.

The charities included the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, a group that had been designated by the U.S. as a terror sponsor.

5. Saudi Arabia - throughout the late 1980s - "adopted an extremist version of Islam - Wahhabism - as the state religion; declared that its propagation was a core function of the state; and sought to advance it around the world through Saudi Arabia's Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Embassies, Saudi Arabia's charity organizations and other government agents."
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...ped-terrorists-9-11-attacks-article-1.3003684

Hijackers by Nationality:
Egypt
Mohamed Atta
Lebanon
Ziad Jarrah

Saudi Arabia
Ahmed al Ghamdi
Hamza al Ghamdi
Saeed al Ghamdi
Hani Hanjour
Nawaf al Hazmi
Salem al Hazmi
Ahmad al Haznawi
Ahmed al Nami
Khalid al Mihdhar
Majed Moqed
Abdul Aziz al Omari
Mohand al Shehri
Wail al Shehri
Waleed al Shehri
Satam al Suqami
United Arab Emirates
Fayez Banihammad
Marwan al Shehhi
https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/27/us/september-11th-hijackers-fast-facts/index.html

So, the logical thing to do, he argued, was to ban citizens of nations from which no 9/11 terrorists came:
Venezuela
Libya
Syria
Iran
Yemen
Somalia
North Korea
Chad
Iraq
Sudan

The last three have since been removed from the list. Maybe they started buying stuff from Trump?

 

[The Barbarian]

Wrong, the strongest correlation is coming from two-parent families, not income level.

Actually the SAT practice test is the best predictor, but I realize that's not what you meant.

As far as actual college performance, the best predictor is having a mother with an advanced degree. The second best is having a father with an advanced degree. Family income level is third.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s40172-017-0060-5

High school GPA turns out to be a better predictor of academic success in college than SAT scores:

What Predicts College Completion? High School GPA Beats SAT Score
https://www.forbes.com/sites/presto...high-school-gpa-beats-sat-score/#42135c494b09

 

[genuineoriginal]

We're not talking about mutual defense. We're talking about stopping terrorists from coming to the United States. And the fact is, most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis.

Trump was not the president when 9/11 happened.

I understand that Trump has a lot of business with Saudi Arabia, and that,to Trump, was a bigger deal than the fact that it is the largest source if Islamic terrorists.

Whether Trump "has a lot of business with Saudi Arabia" or not has nothing to do with the travel ban, despite your overactive imagination.

There are documented reasons for each of the countries listed and most of them are whether the country cooperates with the United States, whether the country is able to adequately document travelers, and whether the country has the ability to properly report safety related information.

Executive Order 13769 Affected locations Iran The Trump administration stated that Iran often fails to cooperate with officials and is considered "state sponsors of terrorism" by the U.S. State Department. Yemen Political instability and presence of unsafe activity around the region has led to Yemen being placed on the travel ban list. The country is also unable to adequately document travelers. Syria Failure to properly report public safety related info put Syria on the Travel Ban list. Libya Inability to report safety related information and impending refugee crisis, widespread violence, internal instability has led Libya to being banned. Venezuela In 2016, a state of economic emergency was declared by current leader Maduro. Sanctions, low currency rates, food scarcity, diminished oil prices and strives for power within the government lead to intense anti-government protests. In one iteration of the travel ban, Venezuelan government officials and their immediate families were banned, but regular citizens were not. North Korea Lack of willingness to "cooperate with the United States in any respect", notably in terms of a standoff regarding North Korea's nuclear program.

​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Actually the SAT practice test is the best predictor, but I realize that's not what you meant.

It is easy to find a bunch of racists that try to see how people do on the SAT according to their race while ignoring all the real factors that affect how well students do in school.

It is harder to find non-racists that will look at the family background like this study did:

Students' Family Background and Schools' Test Scores Consistent with previous research, students living with two parents did best on PISA’s math portion. And yes, that was the case controlling for individual background characteristics, such as socioeconomic status, and the prevalence of single-parent families in their country. Here’s what the scholars discovered about the spillover effects of single-parent families: There was “a strong negative relationship” between the percentage of a school’s students from single-parent families and the school’s average performance. The link doesn’t boil down to school resources, school size, or students’ backgrounds, though all of those factors matter. A school’s socioeconomic composition—the average score of its students on a measure incorporating parents’ education and occupation as well as the amount of possessions in the family’s home—accounted for just half of the negative relationship described above. Having lots of classmates from single-parent families hurts the math scores of children of single mothers more than the scores of children from other types of families. For the most part, attending a school with many single-parent families has less of an impact on students’ performance in nations where single-parent families are more common. However, the U.S. is an exception to this rule. Despite the fact that single-parent families are more common here than in the 24 other OECD countries in the study, the percentage of an American school’s students living with a single parent remains highly relevant to the school’s scores.

​

 

[The Barbarian]

Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
Trump was not the president when 9/11 happened.
Neither was Obama, but he didn't go banning travel from all countries that might produce terrorists, except those that actually had terrorists take part in 9/11.

Whether Trump "has a lot of business with Saudi Arabia" or not has nothing to do with the travel ban,
Of course it didn't. He probably just excepted them because they were the actual sources of the 9/11 attackers. I have to admit that doesn't seem as likely as him doing it because he had a lot of money to make in the countries he excepted.

There are documented reasons for each of the countries listed and most of them are whether the country cooperates with the United States, whether the country is able to adequately document travelers, and whether the country has the ability to properly report safety related information.
I would think whether or not they actually had terrorists who took part in 9/11 would be a significant finding. Unfortunately, there isn't a nation from which 9/11 attackers came, in which Trump had no financial stake, so we can't really test that idea.

But I can't help thinking that one good way to stop terrorists from coming to the United States would be to bar people from nations that actually had terrorists attack us. I get that Iran is not our friend, but when did they send terrorists here to hijack planes and fly them into buildings?

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Actually the SAT practice test is the best predictor, but I realize that's not what you meant.

As far as actual college performance, the best predictor is having a mother with an advanced degree. The second best is having a father with an advanced degree. Family income level is third.
https://link.springer.com/article/10...172-017-0060-5

High school GPA turns out to be a better predictor of academic success in college than SAT scores:

What Predicts College Completion? High School GPA Beats SAT Score
https://www.forbes.com/sites/preston.../#42135c494b09

It is easy to find a bunch of racists that try to see how people do on the SAT according to their race while ignoring all the real factors that affect how well students do in school.

As you see, that's not a great predictor. Turns out, educated and prosperous parents are good predictors of college success, as is high school GPA.

Since single-parent households in the United States are frequently headed by an adult with little education and not much money, I'd be interested in data that controls for those two issues. Do you have anything?

The problem, if you don't control those, is that you don't really know which factor is responsible.

 

[The Barbarian]

Also not included was the Muslim nation of Sudan.
Is Trump racist because he didn't include Sudan?

Sudan was originally on the list. For some reason, they got off. Barbarian checks...

Sudan Lobbies Trump Administration
https://qz.com/africa/1210979/sudans-businesses-lobby-trump-administration-to-open-up/

It was money well-spent, seems like:

The Trump administration said the decision came after a 16-month effort that showed Sudan was “serious” about promoting regional stability. The State Department noted the Sudanese government had stopped its attacks on areas including Darfur and South Kordofan and was helping the US deal with the threat of the Lord’s Resistance Army, a relentless cult that has been waging war in northern Uganda for decades. The move to ease the sanctions comes barely two weeks after Sudan was removed from the list of countries whose citizens were banned from traveling to the United States.
https://qz.com/africa/1097224/us-lifts-trade-sanctions-against-sudan/

 

[genuineoriginal]

I would think whether or not they actually had terrorists who took part in 9/11 would be a significant finding.

After you get elected President, you can apply that standard to the countries you choose for a travel ban.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Since single-parent households in the United States are frequently headed by an adult with little education and not much money, I'd be interested in data that controls for those two issues. Do you have anything?

The problem, if you don't control those, is that you don't really know which factor is responsible.

Maybe you missed this line that stated: "And yes, that was the case controlling for individual background characteristics, such as socioeconomic status, and the prevalence of single-parent families in their country."

 

[genuineoriginal]

Sudan was originally on the list. For some reason, they got off.

The leftists seem to think that makes Trump a racist. :chuckle:

 

[The Barbarian]

The leftists seem to think that makes Trump a racist.

Apparently, money was more important than race for him in this case. As it was in the other cases. He never let racism get in the way of grabbing some case. :chuckle:

 

[The Barbarian]

Maybe you missed this line that stated: "And yes, that was the case controlling for individual background characteristics, such as socioeconomic status, and the prevalence of single-parent families in their country."

That meant controlling those data between nations. I'd like to see the data showing what it is within this country.

 

[The Barbarian]

(Barbarian suggests that any travel ban should focus on nations from which terrorists actually attacked the United States)

After you get elected President, you can apply that standard to the countries you choose for a travel ban.

Or pretty much any one else, who actually puts America ahead of personal finances.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Apparently, money was more important than race for him in this case. As it was in the other cases. He never let racism get in the way of grabbing some case. :chuckle:

Yes, there are only four colors that Trump is concerned with.
The green of money.
The Red, White, and Blue of the flag.

Or pretty much any one else, who actually puts America ahead of personal finances.

Pretty much everyone in the U.S.A. puts their personal finances ahead of America.
There is no reason to expect any government official to do otherwise.

 

[Alate_One]

Do you have any proof that Trump views some races as superior to others?
So far I haven't seen any evidence that Trump discriminates on the basis of skin color.

Uhh he was sued for housing discrimination in the 1970s?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-blacks-lawsuit_n_855553

Black employees had to be hidden when Trump visited his Casinos
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/08/trump-casinos-black-employees/

And of course, Birtherism.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Uhh he was sued for housing discrimination in the 1970s?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-blacks-lawsuit_n_855553

Trump was sued for not renting to people on welfare with the false accusation that it was racially motivated.

Black employees had to be hidden when Trump visited his Casinos
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/08/trump-casinos-black-employees/

A former employee trying to smear a former employer by making unprovable accusations.

And of course, Birtherism.

Was Obama's father a United States citizen? No.
Did Obama's family in Kenya state that Obama was born there? Yes.

Sounds like you are the real racist.

 

[Gary K]

And most white people are killed by other white people! Yeah that means white people are the worst! right?

I notice how far you stay away from Walter E, Williams' analysis for the crime and morals problems in the black community and what has caused them. The proof is there and the cause is Democrats and their socialist agendas. He demonstrates the causes and traces the roots of the current state of the morality problems in the black community.

Are you Barby's backup fallacy creator? Sure seems like it because all I see from you are fallacies.