Trump Is A Knob

[eider]

Since we're both on a website that encourages theological debate, show me how one cannot embrace the teachings of Jesus Christ/the Son of God/God in the Flesh and still call themselves a follower of Christ (i.e. a Christian).
.

Look... You described TOL as a Conservative Christian forum and now you tell me that such a term is redundant. And after explaining that this site is kind of geared for CC's you seek to encourage vigorous debate? Is that about right?


Now, you have made a claim and asked me to show any debate against it, in order to prove it. I may be thick, but I do know that is called 'Special Pleading'. Did you know that?

If you want to make claim, then you can propose proofs, all by yourself.

There are thousands of Creeds out there and many will claim that yours is incorrect. Even on this forum I read Christians telling Christians that they are doomed etc.

Excuse any typos....I am on a mobile.

 

[DavidK]

I should point out that the term "Christian Conservative" is redundant, as one can't be a Christian without conserving the teachings of Jesus Christ/the Son of God/God in the Flesh.

And yet, there are so many people who call themselves, "Christian," it often needs the modifier.

The modifier is prone to cause confusion, though. For most Americans at least, "conservative" has become so tied to politics that if I were to call myself a "conservative Christian" in order to note my adherence to the Bible and historical faith as opposed to liberal theology, most people would assume I agree with the Republicans, which I very much do not.

Words are tricky.

 

[DavidK]

There are thousands of Creeds out there and many will claim that yours is incorrect. Even on this forum I read Christians telling Christians that they are doomed etc.

Part of that is just reactionary foolishness. A lot of people haven't bothered to work out what they consider salvific and what they consider disputable matters. "You're clearly not even Christian!" most often seems to be a hyperbolic way of saying, "This argument has frustrated me beyond the ability to engage rationally!"

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

I should point out that the term "Christian Conservative" is redundant, as one can't be a Christian without conserving the teachings of Jesus Christ/the Son of God/God in the Flesh.

And yet, there are so many people who call themselves, "Christian," it often needs the modifier.

Perhaps it's those who are attempting to redefine the doctrine of Christianity that should be set straight instead of adding a modifier to the word "Christian"?

The modifier is prone to cause confusion, though. For most Americans at least, "conservative" has become so tied to politics that if I were to call myself a "conservative Christian" in order to note my adherence to the Bible and historical faith as opposed to liberal theology, most people would assume I agree with the Republicans, which I very much do not.

Words are tricky.

I'm well aware that you're a progressive David. I'd love to talk theology with you so that you can explain how both in one's personal life and in the political spectrum someone can promote things that God abhors yet they can still claim to be a follower of Him.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Since we're both on a website that encourages theological debate, show me how one cannot embrace the teachings of Jesus Christ/the Son of God/God in the Flesh and still call themselves a follower of Christ (i.e. a Christian).

...There are thousands of Creeds out there and many will claim that yours is incorrect. Even on this forum I read Christians telling Christians that they are doomed etc.

Yet there is only one universal moral code found in Holy Scripture. Crucible didn't believe in that moral code (hence his defense of abortion, homosexuality, prostitution and recreational drug use), yet still called himself a follower of Christ (i.e. a Christian).

Explain how that works.

 

[DavidK]

Perhaps it's those who are attempting to redefine the doctrine of Christianity that should be set straight instead of adding a modifier to the word "Christian"?

Unfortunately, words are defined by how they're commonly used. If large amounts of people call themselves something, you can keep arguing that they aren't, but it doesn't lead to clarity.

I'm well aware that you're a progressive David. I'd love to talk theology with you and you can explain how both in one's personal life and in the political spectrum someone can promote things that God abhors yet they can still claim to be a follower of Him.

I'm not progressive. The progressives would be horrified by my views on abortion, drugs, homosexuality, gender confusion, "palestinians", how much land belongs to Israel, and what my King is going to do when He returns.

What do you think I support that God abhors?

 

[eider]

Yet there is only one universal moral code found in Holy Scripture.

And now you've really lost the plot. Universal moral code.....! The laws of Moses were the laws for the Israelites, and each one of them was writtenm in order to strengthen, secure, make safe, keep healthy, add cohesion and advance the Israelites...... at that time, back in those days. If you leave out the 96 laws connected to sacrifice (which you have, I hope) then every one was perfect 'for its time'. You just got stuck in some time warp or other that you can't free yourself from, I'm guessing

Crucible didn't believe in that moral code (hence his defense of abortion, homosexuality, prostitution and recreational drug use), yet still called himself a follower of Christ (i.e. a Christian).

Explain how that works.

So you want to take a thread about the US President and turn it into a debate about the 613?
OK........ I didn't know Crucible, but I do know that many Christians have forsaken those laws of the Old Covenant unless re-iterated or rewritten in the New.

So you need to tell me straight: Do you accept the 517 laws of the Old Covenant? That's the 613 less the 96 sacrificial laws.
Well...... do you?

Let's get to it and see what you've got....? If you want to start a clean thread, then that's best, I would think.

 

[eider]

Part of that is just reactionary foolishness.

I think that you are very forgiving towards some of them.....

A lot of people haven't bothered to work out what they consider salvific and what they consider disputable matters.

I could interpret that to mean that a lot of people haven't bothered to work out what they really do believe in...?

"You're clearly not even Christian!" most often seems to be a hyperbolic way of saying, "This argument has frustrated me beyond the ability to engage rationally!"

Now just suppose a Unitarian popped up and said ,'Hello!'......
Honestly, you are too kind to some.... And what about attitudes towards..... say..... Catholics?
I'm sure that some varying Creeds can cope with each other's beliefs, but others...... Wow!

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Perhaps it's those who are attempting to redefine the doctrine of Christianity that should be set straight instead of adding a modifier to the word "Christian"?

Unfortunately, words are defined by how they're commonly used. If large amounts of people call themselves something, you can keep arguing that they aren't, but it doesn't lead to clarity.

And now you've really lost the plot. Universal moral code.....! The laws of Moses were the laws for the Israelites, and each one of them was writtenm in order to strengthen, secure, make safe, keep healthy, add cohesion and advance the Israelites...... at that time, back in those days...

I haven't had any luck in another thread when asking people to come forward and defend the doctrine of the 'inclusive' (i.e. pro homosexual, pro abortion) Metropolitan Community Church.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ized!-Part-4&p=4976958&viewfull=1#post4976958
http://mccchurch.org/

Since they call themselves a Christian Church David, through the use of Holy Scripture, you should have no problem showing that they are.

As for you eider: Since thou shalt not murder and thou shalt not commit buggery on someone of the same gender were only for the Israelites and obviously God told the rest of the world to 'Hey, go do your own thing with My blessings!' it should be a very easy thing for you to show that the doctrine that the MCC embraces is biblical.

 

[northwye]

"I can't believe I live in world where Trump would be considered as the leader of the free world, alongside names like Lincoln, Washington and JFK."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53HyoNwuMg4

In less than five minutes into his program for April 13, 2017 Michael Savage gets into some very politically incorrect stuff, talking about dictators. For those who took American history at Texas A and I College and at the University of Texas in Austin what Savage got into about a particular dictator is believable, though politically incorrect, The Texas schools toned it down some. I do, though, remember UT professor of history Tuffly Ellis talking to me personally about how Federal, General Nathaniel Banks was a hack politician who tried to invade Texas in 1864. Banks and his Federal invading army ran into "wild Texas Horsemen" and Louisiana and Texas infantry at Mansfield, Louisiana. Texas was not invaded.

Talk show host Michael Savage was saying that Abraham Lincoln was a dictator and showed proof that he was such. How could an American Jew originally from New York City talk about Lincoln being a horrible dictator? The answer is that Savage likes the truth.

Lincoln was probably the most divisive President we have had, even more divisive than that guy, I forget his name, who was President before Trump. That guy whose name I forgot didn't send armies into the South who killed civilians deliberately. Many families who lived in the South then have stories about some of their cousins, often fourth or fifth cousins, being shot and killed by Lincoln's invading armies.

 

[ok doser]

What do you think I support that God abhors?

i suspect you will never get an answer to this

 

[aCultureWarrior]

...Talk show host Michael Savage was saying that Abraham Lincoln was a dictator and showed proof that he was such. How could an American Jew originally from New York City talk about Lincoln being a horrible dictator? The answer is that Savage likes the truth...

Libertarian leaning Michael Savage is a huge fan of Donald Trump. So much for "liking the truth".

 

[northwye]

I found the reference to the killing of a distant cousin of mine by one of Lincoln's invading armies - In Mississippi during his 1861-65 war. Its in a family history book. The book says 13 year old William was killed by the Yankees when going up a hill in Mississippi to a gist mill. This 13 year old, named William, was the great-grandson of John, born in 1762, who was the first cousin of my ancestor William, born 1757, so he is a distant cousin, but a relative nevertheless,

 

[eider]

As for you eider: Since thou shalt not murder and thou shalt not commit buggery on someone of the same gender were only for the Israelites and obviously God told the rest of the world to 'Hey, go do your own thing with My blessings!' it should be a very easy thing for you to show that the doctrine that the MCC embraces is biblical.

Oh please!
As if you give a hoot for what I believe.
It's time to face what you believe in, so I'll ask again:-
Repeated question:-
So you need to tell me straight: Do you accept the 517 laws of the Old Covenant? That's the 613 less the 96 sacrificial laws.
Well...... do you?

 

[eider]

Since thou shalt not ...........commit buggery on someone of the same gender ...........

The above an extract from your last post.
Wow! What have you gone and written???!!!!
I can't go much further into that, for previously I have been fairly severely moderated in connection with the subject matter, above.
Was that a slip of the 'tongue', just there...... or what?


I am looking forward immensely to discovering what your beliefs really are, methinks.
Don't worry..... I'm only a thicko..... you can tell me.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
As for you eider: Since thou shalt not murder and thou shalt not commit buggery on someone of the same gender were only for the Israelites and obviously God told the rest of the world to 'Hey, go do your own thing with My blessings!' it should be a very easy thing for you to show that the doctrine that the MCC embraces is biblical.

Oh please!
As if you give a hoot for what I believe.

Tell us that God created mankind but didn't give them rules to live by (thou shalt not murder, commit sexual sins, etc.). I need a good laugh.

It's time to face what you believe in, so I'll ask again:-
Repeated question:-
So you need to tell me straight: Do you accept the 517 laws of the Old Covenant? That's the 613 less the 96 sacrificial laws.
Well...... do you?

You're obviously not familiar with the term "universal moral laws" are you? Let me help: They're based on The Ten Commandments and talked about repeatedly in the New Testament.

1C: Mt. 4:10; Lk. 4:8; Mt. 6:24
2C: Acts 15:20; Acts 17:29-30
3C: Mt. 6:9; Mt. 15:8-9
4C: Mt. 24:20; Acts 16:13; Heb. 4:9
5C: Mt. 15:3-4; Eph. 6:1-3
6C: Mk. 10:19; Rom. 13:9
7C: Mk. 10:11-12; 1 Cor. 6:9
8C: Mk. 10:19; Eph. 4:28
9C: Mt. 15:19-20; Eph. 4:25
10C: Rom. 7:7; Eph. 5:3
*
- See more at: http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2015/02/the-ten-commandments-as-gods-m.php#sthash.ggGXMACl.dpuf

The above an extract from your last post.
Wow! What have you gone and written???!!!!
I can't go much further into that, for previously I have been fairly severely moderated in connection with the subject matter, above.
Was that a slip of the 'tongue', just there...... or what?


I am looking forward immensely to discovering what your beliefs really are, methinks.
Don't worry..... I'm only a thicko..... you can tell me.

I get the feeling that you're not going to take me up on the MCC challenge. Come on, if there is such a thing as a liberal Christian, then the Metropolitan Community Church is it.

 

[eider]

t me

Tell us that God created mankind but didn't give them rules to live by (thou shalt not murder, commit sexual sins, etc.). I need a good laugh.

Ah ha! So you admit that God produced the Laws of Moses, his Ordained Prophet.
So we're getting somewhere.
Now.... do you accept God's Divine laws as passed to his Ordained Prophet Moses?..... all 517 of them!!! ?
Yes or No?

You're obviously not familiar with the term "universal moral laws" are you? Let me help: They're based on The Ten Commandments and talked about repeatedly in the New Testament.

1C: Mt. 4:10; Lk. 4:8; Mt. 6:24
2C: Acts 15:20; Acts 17:29-30
3C: Mt. 6:9; Mt. 15:8-9
4C: Mt. 24:20; Acts 16:13; Heb. 4:9
5C: Mt. 15:3-4; Eph. 6:1-3
6C: Mk. 10:19; Rom. 13:9
7C: Mk. 10:11-12; 1 Cor. 6:9
8C: Mk. 10:19; Eph. 4:28
9C: Mt. 15:19-20; Eph. 4:25
10C: Rom. 7:7; Eph. 5:3
*
- See more at: http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2015/02/the-ten-commandments-as-gods-m.php#sthash.ggGXMACl.dpuf

They're already covered in the Laws of Moses!!
Do you accept all the laws of Moses? (Less the sacrificial laws).

I get the feeling that you're not going to take me up on the MCC challenge. Come on, if there is such a thing as a liberal Christian, then the Metropolitan Community Church is it.

At last....... instead of chanting gibberish abbreviations at me you finally tell me about the Metro Com Church, whatever that is.
No such Church around here.
So why don't you tell me about YOUR Church, or Creed, or Denomination?


And most important of all, best of all, do you acknowledge and believe in the Old Testament Laws of Moses, as written? Yes.... or No?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Tell us that God created mankind but didn't give them rules to live by (thou shalt not murder, commit sexual sins, etc.). I need a good laugh.

Ah ha! So you admit that God produced the Laws of Moses, his Ordained Prophet.
So we're getting somewhere.
Now.... do you accept God's Divine laws as passed to his Ordained Prophet Moses?..... all 517 of them!!! ?
Yes or No?

I must have missed your answer: Did God create mankind without giving them rules to live by? (thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not commit sexual sins, etc.).

Do you believe that God is an anarchist who hates mankind so much that He wants it to self destruct?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I get the feeling that you're not going to take me up on the MCC challenge. Come on, if there is such a thing as a liberal Christian, then the Metropolitan Community Church is it.

At last....... instead of chanting gibberish abbreviations at me you finally tell me about the Metro Com Church, whatever that is.
No such Church around here.

Churches that mock God's Word can be found everywhere these days eider. Heck, I bet there's even one near you.

So why don't you tell me about YOUR Church, or Creed, or Denomination?

Let's stick to the subject of if there is such thing as a liberal Christian. I've given an example of a church that 'marries' sexual degenerates. Explain how it's possible for these people to be followers of Christ (i.e. Christians) if they embrace things that God abhors.

 

[eider]

I must have missed your answer: Did God create mankind without giving them rules to live by? (thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not commit sexual sins, etc.).

I must have missed yours!
You failed, a number of times, to acknowledge all 517 Laws of Moses (leaving aside the sacrificial laws) and I now believe that you ignore and dismiss them all apart from 'no murder, no sex-sins, ten commandments'. !!!
God gave His Divine Laws to the Israelites at that time! He did NOT give them to the other tribes in the regions surrounding the Israelites, or the Egyptians, the Moabites, the Malekites etc..... He did not!
You need to read your bible more closely.
But I now can see that you do not follow all God's Divine Laws as given to His Ordained Prophets in the Old Testament.
I don't mind what you keep or dump, so long as I can see the level of yiour integrity. Many Christians have discarded the Old Covenant Laws for the new. You seem to go cherey-picking.

Do you believe that God is an anarchist who hates mankind so much that He wants it to self destruct?

I believe that you ignore what you want to, and focus on what you want to.
You only see what you want to see.
God may well decide to lose a high % of manmkind, like He has done before!

Churches that mock God's Word can be found everywhere these days eider. Heck, I bet there's even one near you. ;
Let's stick to the subject of if there is such thing as a liberal Christian. I've given an example of a church that 'marries' sexual degenerates. Explain how it's possible for these people to be followers of Christ (i.e. Christians) if they embrace things that God abhors.

Special Pleading!
CW makes a statement and asks me to explain a Church Congregation tghat I don't even know!
And that was NOT the subject matter, was it! ?
You wrote:-

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Since we're both on a website that encourages theological debate, show me how one cannot embrace the teachings of Jesus Christ/the Son of God/God in the Flesh and still call themselves a follower of Christ (i.e. a Christian).

......I answered:-
Now, you have made a claim and asked me to show any debate against it, in order to prove it. I may be thick, but I do know that is called 'Special Pleading'. Did you know that?

So where are we? You do not take interest in the OT Laws apart from your own chosen interests, sex and murder...... very strange. There's not much of Christianity there, really, is there? Did Jesus rant on about sex-sin and murder?

What Denomination is that...! ?

 

[ok doser]

What do you think I support that God abhors?

i suspect you will never get an answer to this