Trinity Proof Scriptures
- Thread starter Mixed_Brown
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How long did it take for you to GOOG that debate ender?
genuineoriginal
New member
You need to read the Bible for yourself to find out what it teaches.What does The Bible teach then?lain:
oatmeal
Well-known member
You are right, omniscient is not found in scriptures
As for God the Father in the OT, I will take your word for it. It may not be in the OT.
Is there a point to that? There a lot of things in Acts through Revelation that is not mentioned in the OT.
No, why would you ask? However if you believe that Mary is the mother of God, and God is three in one that Mary must be the mother of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Then Mary must have preceded God.
Who then impregnated Mary?
The trinity causes problems it solves none
Jesus is the son of God, that is found in about 50 scriptures.
"God the Son" is not found in scripture.
I will believe what scriptures says, not what it does not say.
How about you?
genuineoriginal
New member
I do.
Acts 17:11-12 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. |
Lucian Hodoboc
New member
I did read it. Well, most of it. I might have skipped some chapters from The Old Testament, but I read most of The Bible.
Rosenritter
New member
In reverse order,
1. You are seriously arguing that Matthew 27:50 are merely "bodies being raised out of the ground" and not "came to life?" Just what are you imagining happened here? That an earthquake happened and dead bodies were being moved around like puppets on strings?
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
All that to defend your theory that "Jesus is the first and the last to be raised by God?" I'm seriously doubting your integrity and/or sanity right now.
2. Your question is flawed, scripture does not say that "God cannot die." God is omnipotent, which means he can die as many times as he wants. God is immortal and has immortality in himself, meaning that it is not possible that he should be held by death, because he can bring himself back to life. He has life in himself thus he can raise himself. (see Acts 2:24 KJV, John 5:26 KJV, John 2:19 KJV.)
That wasn't a very good question.
3. If you don't think Acts 17:31 and John 5:22 make sense then it is likely that the fault lies with your underlying theology, that which you should be willing to subject to scripture, rather than demanding that scripture make way for your theology. Acts 17:31 says that God judges the dead but through means of the Christ, and John 5:22 says that Jesus judges the dead and not the Father. By your construction those two verses would render Jesus as "God" and "the Father" as "not God."
4. To clarify, an absurd blasphemer can attempt to apply "I am the first and the last" to a normal person. It's a title claimed by God in most definite and certain terms. Am I that clear now?
5. To clarify, the phrase "I am the first and the last" in scripture is never used with any lesser qualification, such as "I am the first and the last janitor to eat a ham sandwich while cleaning the toilet" or "I am the first and the last person to blaspheme the LORD and live" or anything else like that. It says, "I am the first and the last" and clarifies with "I am the beginning and the end" and "I am the Alpha and Omega." Your argument has reached the level of stupidity and it should be quickly abandoned as a dead end.
6. Your argument that the phrase "first and the last" is not meant in the sense of uniqueness, that one can be declared the "first and the last" and not really be the first and not really be the last is just plain dumb. God doesn't give any such qualifier when he says "I am the first and the last" to mean "I am the first and the last but there's going to be another that will make this passage obsolete."
When you say that someone is "the Last Samurai" you don't mean that they are the MOST RECENT Samurai. When you say that a person was "the Last Jedi" you don't mean that they were the most recent Jedi recruit. When God says "I am the first and the last, and beside which there is no other God" he doesn't mean that he is the MOST RECENT God and that more Gods will follow.
7. You SERIOUSLY are playing the Jehovah's Witness Hail Mary desperation play here? The "your bible doesn't use the English word Jehovah in every other passage? If you want to talk about the New World Translation, perhaps you could present one (even one) Greek manuscript that uses the name "Jehovah" in the New Testament, to justify the plethora of "Jehovah" words that are "translated" there. Again, do you seriously want to go there, when considering the warning that God has about adding to his words? "LORD" is a translation in the theme of the tetragrammaton whereas "Jehovah" isn't a translation of the Greek text at all.
8. Finally, that the last may be first, your argument that "the first and the last" is an everyday descriptive is just stupid. Even your example of "saviour" fails to make the distinction between descriptive and title. In the context of the salvation of mankind and eternal life, of which there is no greater context, we are told there is one savior. And we are told that is God and Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 3:18 KJV
(18) But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Isaiah 45:21-22 KJV
(21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
(22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Titus 1:3-4 KJV
(3) But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
(4) To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
1 Timothy 1:1 KJV
(1) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
Ephesians 4:5 KJV
(5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
* One Lord, and God and Christ are called Lord interchangeably.
* One Saviour in the context of the salvation of all mankind, and God and Jesus are called Saviour interchangeably.
* "Look to me and be saved" says God, and Jesus says that they should look upon him to be saved.
But still, "THE" First and the Last is not such that can be interpreted as a mere descriptive. It's lacking a noun. "THE ALPHA AND OMEGA" cannot be interpreted as any sort of adjective. It's a title. THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA is the Almighty and Jesus Christ. Do you want to repeat that ridiculous argument that "normal people are called THE Alpha and Omega?" Is that just a way of saying that they know how to speak Greek?
Revelation 1:8 KJV
(8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:11,17-18 KJV
(11) Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, ...
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 22:13,16 KJV
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
I don't know how to break you out of Jehovah's Witness brainwashing, but it's sad to see the gymnastics engaged in to avoid the plain stated revelation. Is JW status really more important than God and Christ? What they say is more important than what he says? There doesn't seem to be any name or title you won't dismiss, holding your doctrine as more precious. When Jesus says that one must "sell all that they have and follow him" doesn't it seem to you that might also include selfish doctrines and systems?
Seriously, the dead saints arising and going into the city isn't being raised to life? Really? That's what your answers are coming to.
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You argued:
Slower:There is no scripture mentioning that God is "omniscient," "omnipotent,"............ and there is no "God the Father" mentioned in the OT.
Is God the Father married?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Those words are not found in scripture, thank you.
To whom would God the Father be married to seeing God the Father created all things?
Do you have a God the Mother? You do have a "Mary the mother of God"
So Mary the mother of God was the mother of the Father and the son and the Holy Ghost?
Really? It all becomes rather silly doesn't it?
Why would God need a wife?
God is spirit there is no God the woman for him to marry, now is there?
Not unless the Trinitarians have been keeping a few things a secret.
Who would God marry?
Do you see anywhere that refers to God the wife?
I don't, yet maybe the trinity allows for one, why not?
If you want to assume that anything that the scriptures do not specifically name is possible, then mayber there is God the Uncle and God the Grandfather................................................................................................................................................ as well?
Why not stick to scripture instead of inventing gods and doctrines?
Is God omniscient?
Does scripture say so? Does he know what it is like to murder someone? Does he know what doing evil feels like? God is light and in him is no darkness at all, therefore He does not do evil and therefore has not have the knowledge of having done evil.
Is God omnipotent? what does that mean? That He controls everything? Does God control everything? Why didn't he stop Lucifer from rebelling? Does God force you to abandon your God given ability to make choices?
How you do define omnipotent?
He does overstep anyone's free will so maybe omnipotency is a fairy tale?
As usual, you missed it.You argued:
Slower:There is no scripture mentioning that God is "omniscient," "omnipotent,"............ and there is no "God the Father" mentioned in the OT.
According to your "argument," then, God is not omniscient, omnipotent, as there is nothing in the bible employing the words "omniscient," "omnipotent," in the scriptures, as pertaining to God. And, according to you, "God the Father" did not exist in the OT.
You can't be this stupid.
Is God the Father married?
Pay attention. One of your "arguments" for the Lord Jesus Christ not being God, is "Well, it says Son of God, not God the son," in deceit, knowing full well that is sophistry, deceit, as the meaning of "Son," from a biblical perspective, as applied to Him, is deity, by definition.
Hence-Is God the Father married?
If you don't get that, either grow a brain, or get saved, or both.
oatmeal
Well-known member
There is no mention of God the Father in the OT
So what?
Is that supposed to be an argument that supports some wisdom of yours?
It isn't.
All it proves is that God the Father is not mentioned in the OT.
Peter is not mentioned in the OT either.
Are you going to suggest that Peter is not really a person that Jesus Christ spent time with?
If you have some point to make, you might want to make it, you know, before Jesus Christ returns.
Why don' you read what I wrote instead of staining it with your false doctrines and illogic?
What does omnipotent mean?
What does omniscient mean?
What are your definitions of those terms?
Who knows maybe I could agree with your definition, but until you define them, I see no way to discuss the issue.
So rather than divide, how about you define those terms?
Now, can I be how stupid?
If you have to resort to insults, then I know you have no scriptural reply.
Man up and admit you are wrong about the trinity, that is is a false doctrine that is in now way taught by God in the scriptures.
Man up boy.
Gird up your loins and admit it
You missed it.This is your grade school argument, clown:
You can't be this stupid. I take that back. All Christ rejectors, which, by definition, are those that reject that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, are stupid.
You: Since the bible does not employ, "mention," the terms, "atheism...monotheism...rapture...omnipotent...omniscient.... God the Son... God the Holy Spirit...The Sermon On The Mount.. Holy of Holies... God the Holy Spirit.........." ........................................these concepts, like "Trinity," are false.
You're a moron.Grow a brain, or get saved-or both.
Real tough guy, are you, punk? Impressive. Lack confidence, do you, punk? Yes... I've fought bigger girls than you, sis, so you don't scare me.
I always insult wolves. Too bad, cry baby, and stuff your "Poor me....wounded soul....accusation of hate technique" made up false "doctrine," as exposing, marking, identifying wolves, like yourself, and calling them names, is biblical, despite your spineless protests to the contrary.
And get this, punk: wolves, and sheep, generally don't get along. But, if that gives you the "warms and fuzzies," knock yourself out, talk show groupie.
Am I clear, wolfie? And kindly show me the scripture, where I must "reply" to anyone, including a wolf, and Christ rejector, such as yourself.
I thought so.
Does God the Father have a wife?
Son, in the book, means one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative("Son of man," which the Saviour used over, and over again, "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience"...survey Mark 3:7 KJV, Ephesians 2:1 KJV,....) Typically, when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David,.......) the son possesses the nature of his father.
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7djengo7
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Oh, so he thinks that the Holy Spirit is, simultaneously, BOTH God AND not God?
Either the Holy Spirit is God, or the Holy Spirit is not God. You folks don't get a pass on being subject to the law of the excluded middle. Not only do you despise the Logos of John 1:1 KJV, you despise logic.
Only deranged people will claim that God is an attribute of God, but that is what Dartman is claiming, when he states that the Holy Spirit is BOTH God AND an attribute of God.
7djengo7
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vs.
Which is it? Do you, or do you not, worship Jesus?
What's with this meaningless jargon you're fond of about "directly worshiping" someone?
Since you claim, out of one side of your mouth, that you "do worship Jesus", and then, out of the other side of your mouth, you claim that you do not "directly worship [Jesus]", what you have entailed, in those claims, is that you "worship Jesus", but not "directly". In other words, you are saying that you INDIRECTLY worship Jesus.
This meaningless jargon of yours is, of course, NOT from Scripture. No, sir. It's just one of your many language games--it's basically you farting in the face of people who, thinking logically, bring into focus your inconsistencies and hypocrisies.
Either you worship Jesus, or you do not worship Jesus. There's no middle ground for you to take refuge in. Again, you're not above the law of excluded middle. We all understand that you, in fact, do not worship Jesus at all, just as we understand that you do not worship His Father at all, and that you are a Christ-hater, and a God-the-Father-hater.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Well your definition of stupid has no support from scripture.
Again you resorting to insult instead of actually addressing the scriptures I presented indicate you have nothing.
Nothing,
Nothing at all.
You were cheated by whoever you thought taught you scripture.
They preferred pagan tradition over the word of God.
However, God still loves you even though you mistake the son of God for God himself.
And he is willing and able to forgive and forget your idolatrous practices.
Romans 1:22-25
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Trinitarians have "changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man"
Please take you time to consider what scripture teaches instead of wallowing in tradition
=spam, misdirection...
That is slick, Forest....Real slick...
Slower:
You missed it.This is your grade school argument, clown:
You can't be this stupid. I take that back. All Christ rejectors, which, by definition, are those that reject that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, are stupid.
You: Since the bible does not employ, "mention," the terms, "atheism...monotheism...rapture...omnipotent...omniscient.... God the Son... God the Holy Spirit...The Sermon On The Mount.. Holy of Holies... God the Holy Spirit.........." ........................................these concepts, like "Trinity," are false.
You're a moron.Grow a brain, or get saved-or both.
Real tough guy, are you, punk? Impressive. Lack confidence, do you, punk? Yes... I've fought bigger girls than you, sis, so you don't scare me.
I always insult wolves. Too bad, cry baby, and stuff your "Poor me....wounded soul....accusation of hate technique" made up false "doctrine," as exposing, marking, identifying wolves, like yourself, and calling them names, is biblical, despite your spineless protests to the contrary.
And get this, punk: wolves, and sheep, generally don't get along. But, if that gives you the "warms and fuzzies," knock yourself out, talk show groupie.
Am I clear, wolfie? And kindly show me the scripture, where I must "reply" to anyone, including a wolf, and Christ rejector, such as yourself.
I thought so.
Does God the Father have a wife?
Son, in the book, means one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative("Son of man," which the Saviour used over, and over again, "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience"...survey Mark 3:7 KJV, Ephesians 2:1 KJV,....) Typically, when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David,.......) the son possesses the nature of his father.