Apostle Jack
New member
Because everything must be proven...even to ourselves.
toldailytopic: Why do bad things happen to good people?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Don’t worry—it gets worse (Mt 6:34). :roses: We will suffer (Lk 21:16-17) but God will supply our needs.
See:
What is your net worth.....in birds? Part 5a Matthew 6:25-26 by Darrell Ferguson
What is your net worth.....in birds? Part 5b Matthew 6:25-26 by Darrell Ferguson
Don't Run for Gatorade Part 6a Matthew 6:28-33 by Darrell Ferguson
Don't Run for Gatorade Part 6a Matthew 6:28-33 by Darrell Ferguson
See:
What is your net worth.....in birds? Part 5a Matthew 6:25-26 by Darrell Ferguson
What is your net worth.....in birds? Part 5b Matthew 6:25-26 by Darrell Ferguson
Don't Run for Gatorade Part 6a Matthew 6:28-33 by Darrell Ferguson
Don't Run for Gatorade Part 6a Matthew 6:28-33 by Darrell Ferguson
Last edited:
good?
good?
Mark 10
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
All have sinned. The problem is that we (calling ourselves good) esteem ourselves too highly. We are saced by grace and being transformed by the renewing of our minds (if we are) and becoming "gooder." But in this life on earth we encounter the Lord God's will for Adam and Eve. We die, we suffer pain and sorrow, and labor with sweat. We are also in a war zone and sin, the sin nature and the devil still work against us.
good?
Mark 10
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
All have sinned. The problem is that we (calling ourselves good) esteem ourselves too highly. We are saced by grace and being transformed by the renewing of our minds (if we are) and becoming "gooder." But in this life on earth we encounter the Lord God's will for Adam and Eve. We die, we suffer pain and sorrow, and labor with sweat. We are also in a war zone and sin, the sin nature and the devil still work against us.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Our spiritual and material being are one. We do not function as either/or, nor do I believe that was God's intent. The human body could not exist without a spirit. It is up to each of us to understand and live in LOve with both, not just the spiritual, and not just the physical.
1. Because we all have free will and sometimes nasty people use that free will to do bad things.
2. Some of my greatest growth and ability to be compassionate has been due to the trials in my life. I have met people who have never had serious struggles and they are not the 'realest' people to be around. They don't know humility.
3. It seems that people never look to or think of God when all is good - sometimes it is the only way to get their attention. I know that God would rather something bad happen to wake someone up to the eternal issue than let them have a perfectly peaceful life and hell for all eternity.
2. Some of my greatest growth and ability to be compassionate has been due to the trials in my life. I have met people who have never had serious struggles and they are not the 'realest' people to be around. They don't know humility.
3. It seems that people never look to or think of God when all is good - sometimes it is the only way to get their attention. I know that God would rather something bad happen to wake someone up to the eternal issue than let them have a perfectly peaceful life and hell for all eternity.
Ophansandalphon
New member
This question begs for incomplete answers.
This question begs for incomplete answers.
We believe that we understand the world that we live in and so it SEEMS unfair that some people have challenged lives and others do not. What is difficult to conceive is that the world is an enormous schoolhouse, where everyone is attending school at a different grade, progressing at different rates, and facing different spiritual challenges. Obviously, the only way that this would be possible is through reincarnation, which many people don't believe in.
For the record, I believe in Jesus, having seen him face to face when I was 14, 40 some years ago. I am in the broadest sense a Christian in that I believe that the Christ energy is the most important thing in the universe, however, I am not a supporter of negative, judgmental and limiting Christian dogma, making me a spiritual electron, forever circling organized Christianity but unable to accept all of the mislabeled and misunderstood information offered at its center.
Reincarnation
Christians don’t like talking about reincarnation. Every Christian that I’ve ever discussed the topic with has always referred back to the same verse in the Bible.
Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Even before I met the Holy Spirit and could suddenly get some real answers to my imponderable questions, there were certain aspects of accepted Christianity that didn’t seem to make any sense to me.
Before he committed suicide by hanging himself in his church office, my Baptist pastor, Pastor F., used to proclaim loudly and authoritatively that no soul who did not know Jesus personally was ever going to find its way back to Heaven.
That sounds simply wonderful, if one doesn’t spend too much time pondering the ramifications of that statement. Unfortunately, I’ve always pondered, and so I was struck by a series of conundrums that Christianity didn’t address adequately or fairly, in my humble opinion. One of the biggest stumbling blocks for me in these conundrums was always the assertion that we all had only one lifetime to figure everything out correctly.
Christian Conundrum #1
What happens to souls who die who are too young to consciously choose Jesus as their personal savior, like premature babies?
Christian Conundrum #2
What happens to those who are mentally challenged who cannot possibly comprehend the concept of Jesus or spiritual salvation?
Christian Conundrum #3
What does God do with the soul that has never heard about Jesus in their entire life and has no chance to be saved, like an aboriginal person in the wild backlands of Australia?
Christian Conundrum #4
What about people who are admirable in thought and deed, but who choose not to have any type of religious affiliation because they feel they have been betrayed by their religious leaders? What about all of the children who have sworn off religion because of being violated by someone in a position of authority in the church? Shall the actions of evil masquerading as good have the spiritual authority to ultimately condemn an injured soul?
Christian Conundrum #5
What will God do about all of the people who lived before Jesus? How can they possibly be saved? What will happen to their souls? How were Adam and Eve judged?
The bumper sticker “No Jesus, no salvation” would seem to be Christianity’s rote response to these questions.
Some might say the there was a special covenant between Jehovah and the Jews established through Moses and Abraham, but there is still no denying the fact that the Jews never knew of Jesus, and so, by a strict and literal interpretation of the New Testament, they cannot be saved. But even if Jewish souls of the Old Testament were treated in a manner outside the commonly understood Christian mandates of the New Testament, what happened to the souls of the Gentiles of ancient times?
Those untold millions and billions of heartlessly doomed souls would represent the biggest Christian conundrum of all, but all of these conundrums can be explained away if one accepts the possibility that God gives us more than one lifetime to figure out His secrets.
Religious folk take Hebrews 9:27 as being literal in meaning, but in doing so, they don’t see that women aren’t even mentioned. Is that to imply that women live forever? If the reference to “men” is metaphoric and is designed to include women also, then why is the passage always taken literally?
What if the passage actually means that each soul that wishes to incarnate and to try to learn to be a real boy, like the Pinocchio story, only gets to choose that path which includes death once?
That would mean that once a soul steps up and agrees to the incarnation/ reincarnation journey, that they can’t get out off the ride until they graduate, or until the process is over with the Judgment Day, the eighth day of Creation.
On that day, God then determines if the Pinocchios who haven’t graduated yet have learned enough to become a real boy, or if they stay selfish and wooden-headed, and are sent off to ponder their mistakes in the only place where God has removed His presence, hell.
Christianity as a collective unit seems very sure that each soul has only one brief life in order to discover everything that it needs to know to be worthy of Heaven. So what happens to a premature baby that lives for five minutes and never opens its eyes?
It has never known Jesus’ name, nor accepted him as its personal savior.
Would God send this soul to hell for its poor choices, when it never had the opportunity to make any choices at all?
If I were standing at the front altar on my old church, looking my going-to-be-suicidal pastor in the eye as he asked me the question, he’d expect me to say, “Yes.”
My spiritual experience would be that my former pastor’s understanding of reincarnation was incorrect.
The Holy Spirit agrees with me.
Without the possibility of retakes, how would we all have a fair chance of finding our way back home? This is all a very fortunate thing for Pastor F., because someday he’ll be back to answer life’s questions again, and perhaps he’ll do better on the test the next time around.
God is all about Love and fairness, and any religious tradition or perspective that goes against that assertion needs to be discarded as untrue and un-God-like. God's greatest secrets are that the Christ evergy of God's Love exists at the core of every life-affirming religion as pure Love itself (the rest is the equivalent of God offering 31 flavors of salvation, and the various religions are just set dressing so that everyone can find something that feels comfortable) and that our spiritual contract with him allows for retakes on major spiritual test questions, whether we believe in that possibility or not.
Christianity, on the whole, rejects the possibility of reincarnation, and it is sad to note how many Christian souls judge, persecute and condemn others when they think that they have only one lifetime to live. They think of Jesus as a "Get out of jail free" card as opposed to a way to LIVE life. They'll find out how wrong they are, soon enough, as they have in the past. Today's Christians CAN be Loving and generous, but if the loving and the giving has to be done IN JESUS' NAME then it is not sincere Loving and giving, and they're just hedging their spiritual bet that there will be some form of accountability at the end.
There are two main reasons why bad things happen to good people. Either it is a spiritual challenge that EVERY soul must face before graduation (like the loss of a Loved one or poverty or illness and THANK GOD that He doesn't make us face a full line-up of challenges in our first lifetime), or it is working off a karmic balance from a previous and unremembered life. If you worked for the king and blinded people in the 14th century you WILL live a life where someone will heartlessly take your sight away. Devaluing others ALWAYS creates a karmic imbalance that will need to be adjusted at some point in order for us to become Loving and compassionate, like God Himself. If you're a big guy who likes beating on or killing cute girls, God knows, and after your time as a lost soul (another topic for another day) you will incarnate as a cute girl and you will meet your previous self in a dark alley, over and over again until your soul would never consider hurting another person again.
Jesus and Mary succeeded in just one lifetime. We, as a whole, are not as Loving, Giving or spiritually bright. Thank God that His system is more generous than our understanding of His system.
It doesn't matter the question - Love is the ONLY answer.
This question begs for incomplete answers.
We believe that we understand the world that we live in and so it SEEMS unfair that some people have challenged lives and others do not. What is difficult to conceive is that the world is an enormous schoolhouse, where everyone is attending school at a different grade, progressing at different rates, and facing different spiritual challenges. Obviously, the only way that this would be possible is through reincarnation, which many people don't believe in.
For the record, I believe in Jesus, having seen him face to face when I was 14, 40 some years ago. I am in the broadest sense a Christian in that I believe that the Christ energy is the most important thing in the universe, however, I am not a supporter of negative, judgmental and limiting Christian dogma, making me a spiritual electron, forever circling organized Christianity but unable to accept all of the mislabeled and misunderstood information offered at its center.
Reincarnation
Christians don’t like talking about reincarnation. Every Christian that I’ve ever discussed the topic with has always referred back to the same verse in the Bible.
Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Even before I met the Holy Spirit and could suddenly get some real answers to my imponderable questions, there were certain aspects of accepted Christianity that didn’t seem to make any sense to me.
Before he committed suicide by hanging himself in his church office, my Baptist pastor, Pastor F., used to proclaim loudly and authoritatively that no soul who did not know Jesus personally was ever going to find its way back to Heaven.
That sounds simply wonderful, if one doesn’t spend too much time pondering the ramifications of that statement. Unfortunately, I’ve always pondered, and so I was struck by a series of conundrums that Christianity didn’t address adequately or fairly, in my humble opinion. One of the biggest stumbling blocks for me in these conundrums was always the assertion that we all had only one lifetime to figure everything out correctly.
Christian Conundrum #1
What happens to souls who die who are too young to consciously choose Jesus as their personal savior, like premature babies?
Christian Conundrum #2
What happens to those who are mentally challenged who cannot possibly comprehend the concept of Jesus or spiritual salvation?
Christian Conundrum #3
What does God do with the soul that has never heard about Jesus in their entire life and has no chance to be saved, like an aboriginal person in the wild backlands of Australia?
Christian Conundrum #4
What about people who are admirable in thought and deed, but who choose not to have any type of religious affiliation because they feel they have been betrayed by their religious leaders? What about all of the children who have sworn off religion because of being violated by someone in a position of authority in the church? Shall the actions of evil masquerading as good have the spiritual authority to ultimately condemn an injured soul?
Christian Conundrum #5
What will God do about all of the people who lived before Jesus? How can they possibly be saved? What will happen to their souls? How were Adam and Eve judged?
The bumper sticker “No Jesus, no salvation” would seem to be Christianity’s rote response to these questions.
Some might say the there was a special covenant between Jehovah and the Jews established through Moses and Abraham, but there is still no denying the fact that the Jews never knew of Jesus, and so, by a strict and literal interpretation of the New Testament, they cannot be saved. But even if Jewish souls of the Old Testament were treated in a manner outside the commonly understood Christian mandates of the New Testament, what happened to the souls of the Gentiles of ancient times?
Those untold millions and billions of heartlessly doomed souls would represent the biggest Christian conundrum of all, but all of these conundrums can be explained away if one accepts the possibility that God gives us more than one lifetime to figure out His secrets.
Religious folk take Hebrews 9:27 as being literal in meaning, but in doing so, they don’t see that women aren’t even mentioned. Is that to imply that women live forever? If the reference to “men” is metaphoric and is designed to include women also, then why is the passage always taken literally?
What if the passage actually means that each soul that wishes to incarnate and to try to learn to be a real boy, like the Pinocchio story, only gets to choose that path which includes death once?
That would mean that once a soul steps up and agrees to the incarnation/ reincarnation journey, that they can’t get out off the ride until they graduate, or until the process is over with the Judgment Day, the eighth day of Creation.
On that day, God then determines if the Pinocchios who haven’t graduated yet have learned enough to become a real boy, or if they stay selfish and wooden-headed, and are sent off to ponder their mistakes in the only place where God has removed His presence, hell.
Christianity as a collective unit seems very sure that each soul has only one brief life in order to discover everything that it needs to know to be worthy of Heaven. So what happens to a premature baby that lives for five minutes and never opens its eyes?
It has never known Jesus’ name, nor accepted him as its personal savior.
Would God send this soul to hell for its poor choices, when it never had the opportunity to make any choices at all?
If I were standing at the front altar on my old church, looking my going-to-be-suicidal pastor in the eye as he asked me the question, he’d expect me to say, “Yes.”
My spiritual experience would be that my former pastor’s understanding of reincarnation was incorrect.
The Holy Spirit agrees with me.
Without the possibility of retakes, how would we all have a fair chance of finding our way back home? This is all a very fortunate thing for Pastor F., because someday he’ll be back to answer life’s questions again, and perhaps he’ll do better on the test the next time around.
God is all about Love and fairness, and any religious tradition or perspective that goes against that assertion needs to be discarded as untrue and un-God-like. God's greatest secrets are that the Christ evergy of God's Love exists at the core of every life-affirming religion as pure Love itself (the rest is the equivalent of God offering 31 flavors of salvation, and the various religions are just set dressing so that everyone can find something that feels comfortable) and that our spiritual contract with him allows for retakes on major spiritual test questions, whether we believe in that possibility or not.
Christianity, on the whole, rejects the possibility of reincarnation, and it is sad to note how many Christian souls judge, persecute and condemn others when they think that they have only one lifetime to live. They think of Jesus as a "Get out of jail free" card as opposed to a way to LIVE life. They'll find out how wrong they are, soon enough, as they have in the past. Today's Christians CAN be Loving and generous, but if the loving and the giving has to be done IN JESUS' NAME then it is not sincere Loving and giving, and they're just hedging their spiritual bet that there will be some form of accountability at the end.
There are two main reasons why bad things happen to good people. Either it is a spiritual challenge that EVERY soul must face before graduation (like the loss of a Loved one or poverty or illness and THANK GOD that He doesn't make us face a full line-up of challenges in our first lifetime), or it is working off a karmic balance from a previous and unremembered life. If you worked for the king and blinded people in the 14th century you WILL live a life where someone will heartlessly take your sight away. Devaluing others ALWAYS creates a karmic imbalance that will need to be adjusted at some point in order for us to become Loving and compassionate, like God Himself. If you're a big guy who likes beating on or killing cute girls, God knows, and after your time as a lost soul (another topic for another day) you will incarnate as a cute girl and you will meet your previous self in a dark alley, over and over again until your soul would never consider hurting another person again.
Jesus and Mary succeeded in just one lifetime. We, as a whole, are not as Loving, Giving or spiritually bright. Thank God that His system is more generous than our understanding of His system.
It doesn't matter the question - Love is the ONLY answer.
some other dude
New member
You think you're having a bad day?
You think you're having a bad day?
We won't be forsaken. :banana:
Lon
Well-known member
At present, though God owns all, not all is under Him. This world is owned by sin and will be destroyed and recreated.
That, is why EDF doesn't make God culpable for any of it. Sin and its effects are outside of God's actions. He can and does use whatever He wishes but the effects of sin are sin. The believer is promised that he/she will be saved from it. It no longer has mortal control over him/her.
That, is why EDF doesn't make God culpable for any of it. Sin and its effects are outside of God's actions. He can and does use whatever He wishes but the effects of sin are sin. The believer is promised that he/she will be saved from it. It no longer has mortal control over him/her.
mitchellmckain
New member
It is the lesson of evolution that this is how living things develop -- it takes death and suffering and lots of it. It is how we learn. Our comfort is not God's priority.
temple2006
New member
Because we human beings are free to follow whatever we think is right !
The question is not "How could a loving God allow evil to exist?", rather "How could a righteous God prohibit liberty?" We must be able to hate if we are able to love. We must be free to do evil if we are free to do good.
I wish our leaders would understand that principle when they legislate compulsory altruism in the name of "helping others". A government program is not charity. It's theft.
Sorry to ramble off subject.
I wish our leaders would understand that principle when they legislate compulsory altruism in the name of "helping others". A government program is not charity. It's theft.
Sorry to ramble off subject.
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Why do bad things . . .
Why do bad things . . .
Whatever ones concept of 'good' might be, it is founded in cultural relativism and the limitations of natural reason to know what 'Good' is or where it begins. Thus the question first errors in thinking that there are 'good' people. As a species, humanity exists within limits of ethical understanding and moral integrity. For example female genital mutilation is accepted in one country and condemned in another. There is no absolute moral standard, even if religion claims or aspires to offer such. We are all part of the problem as there is no known, theological/religious solution to the problem of evil. In effect, humanity remains a prisoner to the realms of fate and not free will.
In consideration of natural evil, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, or whatever; that humanity remains subject to the geological whims of those natural forces that affect our planet, only reinforces the same human predicament, fate. If and when God, presuming there is a God, provides the means to free and strengthens our will, to transcend the limitations of our natural condition, religion, but not as we know it, will have been revealed! It may have already happened?
Why do bad things . . .
Whatever ones concept of 'good' might be, it is founded in cultural relativism and the limitations of natural reason to know what 'Good' is or where it begins. Thus the question first errors in thinking that there are 'good' people. As a species, humanity exists within limits of ethical understanding and moral integrity. For example female genital mutilation is accepted in one country and condemned in another. There is no absolute moral standard, even if religion claims or aspires to offer such. We are all part of the problem as there is no known, theological/religious solution to the problem of evil. In effect, humanity remains a prisoner to the realms of fate and not free will.
In consideration of natural evil, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, or whatever; that humanity remains subject to the geological whims of those natural forces that affect our planet, only reinforces the same human predicament, fate. If and when God, presuming there is a God, provides the means to free and strengthens our will, to transcend the limitations of our natural condition, religion, but not as we know it, will have been revealed! It may have already happened?
StopSpamming
New member
A typical non-question.
As they say: "**** happens" and there is no explanation as to why. There is no sense or point to turn to any of the gods.
As they say: "**** happens" and there is no explanation as to why. There is no sense or point to turn to any of the gods.
MrDeets
TOL Subscriber
It's Adam's fault. :e4e: