toldailytopic: Why are there so many Christian denominations? And is that necessarily

[Frank Ernest]

Because Protestants love themselves more than they love Our Lord.

:rotfl: Ever met a left-wing "Catholic?"

 

[chrysostom]

:rotfl: Ever met a left-wing "Catholic?"

it is more likely that you have

 

[Frank Ernest]

it is more likely that you have

Certainly my fair share over the years. On here, Trad and Barbie come to mind.

 

[unknown]

Ok, 1) do you always eliminate vss you don't like so.Scripture will fit in your box?
2) both john, and paul stated they were there.
3) why did God, deny Christ's prayer? Was His faith.week?
4) I'm not oneness, bigot, but thanks for showing your, colors.
5) don't you think Scripture should tell YIU why it means, rather than yiu telking it what to mean?
6) admit it, you didn't touch the vss given you.
John 17, eph 4:12-16.

You argue at me like I said it. I'm just repeating Scripture. If you don't like it, take it yup with Paul.

Now, are yiu going to back up your slanderous lies, or defend them? After we get that done I will discuss with you, Xian maturity in what ever venue you wish. Preferably in a one on one debate. That makes it easier to show you your errors, and for you to show me mine.

Still can't answer the question, can you? ( that much is obvious to everyone) Where is this oneness, where is the glory?

maybe it was in the 12th century ( the inquisition) when they were rounding up the heretics, nope that's not oneness, that's what they were trying to force on the world.

Where did Protestants come from if the church was of one mind?
Why are we discussing different denominations if the church is one with God? Where is that church?
I predict, you won't answer these questions, (ever). If this oneness was granted, where is it?

 

[IXOYE]

Still can't answer the question, can you? ( that much is obvious to everyone) Where is this oneness, where is the glory?

Let me type slowly, watch my fingers, I am not Oneness. Now in case that wasn't the reference I will answer what it might have met if I misread it.

Oneness comes from the power of God and the Spirit working through you synergestically to change your heart and mind. Synergestically means you both work together. Example: Moses went and did all the work, so God could work as He wanted.

Specifically, you are born in a SOMA with a SARX inside that affects, in fact controls your thinking making you self focused. (soma body, sarx/flesh/sinful nature). You go through life and PNEUMA tries to call you and lead you and guide you closer to God. However SARX is still inside of you. After atonement you are now no longer needing to flee and hide from God as Adam did because of sin, you are ritually cleansed. Then you start to run the race. At the end of the race you are mature, usually written as Perfect in most translation, consult the greek word. And your maturity is as developed, fully and completely as Jesus' was. But before you are finished on the race, Christ removes your sinful nature, that which forces you to not do what you wanna do and do what you don't wanna do. And when it's gone THEN the Spirit of God can indwell you, but not before.

So what you see is... is it's no longer me who lives but HE who lives in me. The me that is removed is the Sinful nature, the HE who lives in me (me = soma) is Pneuma/Spirit.

Every line is scripture if you don't recognize it ask for it before you embarass yourself and argue against the Bible.

The result is... Walking by the Spirit you don't give into temptation. So who has the Glory? God did the changing, God did the removal of the sinful nature, GOD kept you from giving into temptation. But you did things for God to do His thing. It's a synergistic event. I'm anxious for your smug self to answer as I deliberately left most verses paraphrased so they may not be easy to identify to see if you 1) know of them.
2) say somthing that 180 degrees disagrees with scripture.

maybe it was in the 12th century ( the inquisition) when they were rounding up the heretics, nope that's not oneness, that's what they were trying to force on the world.

It's a shame they didn't round up slanderous bigots. I'm not associated with Oneness crowd, although we agree on some things, their path to getting there is pretty heretica by man's standards.


Where did Protestants come from if the church was of one mind?

Well that's already answered, they came from acting of the flesh, gal 5:19-21. Sorry to break that on your dense skull but I'm sure it's not going to leave a mark. We are talking high density. Perhaps Luther shouldn't have let the German princes lure him to hide from the Church. Had he gone on in, perhaps the Pope would have shown mercy, and reconciled and you'd still have mostly one Church. Afterall, the Church was established on the backs of martyrs, why not amend it's direction with one as well.

Why are we discussing different denominations if the church is one with God? Where is that church?

The problem is, scripture shows you aren't the same CHURCH, and that the different denominations is a wrongness. You assume you are together, you have the horse on one leg pushing the cart. You are backwards. The church is together, how can you say it's not. <<< your logic. my logic>>> The church is in 850 BILLION denominations, it does not have Unity, thus it's not of the Spirit but of the Flesh.

I predict, you won't answer these questions, (ever). If this oneness was granted, where is it?

In lieu of your last comment, why don't you bring your overconfident self over to the "debate forum" I will defend full Xian maturity, that results in longer able to sin. What we will see is you denying scripture, rewriting scripture, removing and adding words to scripture, and me using scripture exactly in context and nearly word for word the same when I type off the top of my head. I'll be glad to present an argument for you, short to start, or detailed whichever you prefer.

The church split. That was an act of the flesh. gal 5:19-21 you really should go read the verses before you answer. I Guess you could argue GOD is trying to teach UNITY by commanding seperation which is against the prayer of Jesus in John 17. Then, if you argued that, I'd have to ask you why JESUS prayer wasn't answered? Was His faith not enough? Seriously, for as cocky as you are, you should have brought more to the table. Why not go back to my original comment and address the verses I presented since you avoided them. I predict you are too afraid to answer scripture and admit you were wrong when you have no answer. Not only predict I'm right.

 

[mitchellmckain]

Typical Christian Trope. Or is that troll.

You must be the typical cookie cutter "christian robot" using religion as no more than a tool of his gang's power manipulations.

to evade with attack shows your rational weakness.

SO.... it was because of rational weakness that you began with the attack you did? I was wondering why someone would act like that way towards someone they never met before. Thank you for the explanation.

However in the spirit.
...
You must be the typical narcissistic shmo that thinks if they declare something that's the way it is.

Yes it was in the spirit of your comment, that I made my response.

It is the nature of communication that you need to speak the language of the person that you wish to communicate with. It seems rather sad that your language seems to be that of the playground tuff thinking that whoever can call the other person the nastiest names is the winner.

You reveal your own hypocrisy far better than I ever could. And having failed to see the absurdity of your behavior when reflected back to you, I will leave your playground and use my time more fruitfully in communications with adults.

yeah, I'm a regular idiot. You are right. So my idiotic points I made should be.easy.to acknowledge and show my error.

No need, since you do that so well all by yourself without any help.

 

[IXOYE]

Who died and made you god?

You offered no substance nor proof for your slanderous accusation below... here is the post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown
Who died and made you god?

No one, I'm not the one making DECLARATIONS WITH NO PROOF< SUBSTANCE< OR REASONING. You are.

That's a province GOD might hold, but if a human being is going to accuse me of something, then they have a burden of proof. Lacking that, they are a slanderous liar. Imean that not as a cut down but the literal english words for their actions.

And while cussing isn't mentioned in the bible, slander and lies is several times.

 

[IXOYE]

Who died and made you god?

Here is how it started... who sounds like they sit in the Judgement seat of God here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown
"Bible In a Blender" theology will do that.

Answer the scriptural references or shut up. How's that?


*************

You prove to be a petulant misbehaving juvenile. Either answer the scriptural comments I made that brought you to barbie in a blender or shut up. Every reason I gave I supported. You can either show me I'm wrong on them. And correct me, or sit back and denigrate me and hope people support you. Those are the options where you sit. Choose one or shut up.

 

[IXOYE]

SO.... it was because of rational weakness that you began with the attack you did? I was wondering why someone would act like that way towards someone they never met before. Thank you for the explanation.

rofl. Let's see if I can find what you think the attack was... You proclaim something using all the big words your thesaraus helped you find, that directly contradicts scripture. That is typically what I find in a chat room. No care in the world for if they are right or wrong with scripture, only looking like they know something important. :| I presented biblical proof. Which you ignored. If I was wrong and you are atypical and narcissistic comments declared and expected to deem worthy without review are not your nature, then by all means teach me otherwise. You'll never get there evading.


Yes it was in the spirit of your comment, that I made my response.

You are gonna have to show me that one, I can't find it in there....

It is the nature of communication that you need to speak the language of the person that you wish to communicate with.

I'm quite adept at language. In fact I can prove with 2 days of psychological test batteries I'm in the top 8% with language skills. WOOWOO what does that mean. Nothing. If you lose yourself in pedantics and the substance is hidden, overpowered, or not understood you accomplish nuttin.


It seems rather sad that your language seems to be that of the playground tuff thinking that whoever can call the other person the nastiest names is the winner.

Your response with attacks is typical of the narcissist according to the books that explalin how to diagnose it. Doesn't mean you are, you'd have to hit other indicators as well.....

You reveal your own hypocrisy far better than I ever could.

Another empty assertion. Show me they hypocrisy. Will you ever give anything other than attacks? Either attack and justify your attack making it a debate, or live with your ad hominems.

And having failed to see the absurdity of your behavior when reflected back to you,

Had it been a true reflection, perhaps I'd have noticed it. I use mimicry, or mirroring all the time.

I will leave your playground and use my time more fruitfully in communications with adults.

Anything you can do to avoid that scripture calls your position heretical. Whatever you have to do, to run away and try to save face for your delicate ego to survive. Dude, I don't really care. I'm accustomed to empty assertions on here. It's a Xian board. It's nearly a requirement.



No need, since you do that so well all by yourself without any help.

Thanks for the laughs.

You must be this tall to ride this ride.

You must back up your assertions.

You must show support for how you dont' directly contradict gal 5 vss with your belief.

 

[Don_Quixote]

toldailytopic: Why are there so many Christian denominations? And is that necessarily a bad thing?

The why is the interesting part, but I'll answer the second (quicker) part first. It's a bad thing if any one of those denominations is correct in its assertions. For instance, if the Catholics are right and there is no salvation without the church, all the other denominations are screwed. If the Calvinists are right and everyone is predetermined to go to heaven or hell, then a bunch of people (including some Calvinists I suppose) are randomly screwed, etc...

Why are there so many denominations? To understand that you have to understand the purpose of religion as it was practiced from the Bronze age to the Enlightenment.

Most of the Christian world operated under some sort of Monarchy. There are two ways to maintain such absolute power: constant and liberal application of coercive force (eg. Syria circa 2011) or a personality cult. A personality cult is more difficult to establish, but easier to maintain. If its based on a real (current) leader it must be re-established under the next leader (we'll see how that works in North Korea soon enough), so the simple solution is to base it around an immortal and create peripheral posts "representing" the will of the personality on earth; hence the concepts of Vicar of Christ on Earth and Divine Right of Kings.

Once that's established a number of problems get solved. Are you a peasant upset with your miserable living conditions while a select few live in palaces? You could revolt and overthrow your rulers, but why bother. After all, this life is transitory, and the rewards of a glorious eternal afterlife await you. You can consider your ticket punched because you've paid your tithes ("render unto Caesar"), you're dirt poor ("blessed are the poor") and you're being used as a doormat and doing nothing about it ("blessed are the meek").

The success of this system was recognized by a number of rulers which explains the rapid spread of Christianity, and for a while the Catholic church had a monopoly of the the Christian franchise. But religion is a little like the fast food business: you see that burgers and fries are selling well, but you don't really want to be under the thumb of McDonald's, so you start Burger King. Thus occurred the Eastern Orthodox/Catholic split: two different Emperors seeking earthly power wanted the spiritual control of their people to reside in their private hands.

The next major split was the the C of E. An English king seeking to continue his bloodline sought divorce from his barren Spanish wife. The Pope, who was politically close to the Spanish crown, denied the request. So the King started his own church.

That brought into question the legitimacy of the Catholic monopoly. Lots of people wanted out from under so lots of people decided to start their own churches using the successful Christian template. Hence Lutheranism and the Protestant reformation in general, which was largely about the dilution of power; specifically the abolition of the divine right of kings.

From then on the schisms are psychotic or monetary in nature. Are you a raving lunatic with a following seeking a little more latitude in your favorite hobby (heretic/witch hunting)? Start Puritanism.

Are you a less than successful con man who's just realized the US tax code leaves churches tax exempt, and want a solid stream of revenue without having to kick anything up? Start Mormonism.

So there is . Not much to it really.

 

[danoman31]

BINGO!!!!!!!! Nick M.

 

[danoman31]

I have a question: How many denominations are there in Heaven? Hmmm. If only one which one, if many, does God have preference. Double Hmmmm!!!!!

 

[danoman31]

Sure he did. Very much so.

You tell 'im buddy. Why don't people know this?

 

[unknown]

You offered no substance nor proof for your slanderous accusation below... here is the post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown
Who died and made you god?

No one, I'm not the one making DECLARATIONS WITH NO PROOF< SUBSTANCE< OR REASONING. You are.

That's a province GOD might hold, but if a human being is going to accuse me of something, then they have a burden of proof. Lacking that, they are a slanderous liar. Imean that not as a cut down but the literal english words for their actions.

And while cussing isn't mentioned in the bible, slander and lies is several times.

that question was asked because you told me to shut up. You are not in charge of me in any way shape or form.

 

[IXOYE]

SO.... it was because of rational weakness that you began with the attack you did? I was wondering why someone would act like that way towards someone they never met before. Thank you for the explanation.


Yes it was in the spirit of your comment, that I made my response.

It is the nature of communication that you need to speak the language of the person that you wish to communicate with. It seems rather sad that your language seems to be that of the playground tuff thinking that whoever can call the other person the nastiest names is the winner.

You reveal your own hypocrisy far better than I ever could. And having failed to see the absurdity of your behavior when reflected back to you, I will leave your playground and use my time more fruitfully in communications with adults.



No need, since you do that so well all by yourself without any help.

While I admire your creativity in ignoring my arguments in places diverting the point to me. I anxiously await your answers :-!

 

[IXOYE]

that question was asked because you told me to shut up. You are not in charge of me in any way shape or form.

Yiu are right, I am not in charge of yiu. But I'm not going to have you make openly blidmnd assertions with no example or reasoning to support them. My offense t yiu, was much milder than yours to me. So take your. Quisenarted lack-o-logic and scoot to a place yiu wont be called on your slanderous ad him assertions.

 

[IXOYE]

You tell 'im buddy. Why don't people know this?

Mainly, dano, because they read the Bible for what it says, rather than fish through it to try to make it say what they want. The Bible contradicts his position, and ha can't answer the contradictions. All he has done this far, is ignore them and remake the same arguments in a new and more creatively messed up ways.

 

[Don_Quixote]

I have a question: How many denominations are there in Heaven? Hmmm. If only one which one, if many, does God have preference. Double Hmmmm!!!!!

I think it's well established that every denomination thinks it's the correct one, although some would grant that members of other denominations have access to heaven as well. As for which one is right - only one way to find out. Wanna meet Jesus?

 

[IXOYE]

I hate to agree with anyone around here, but dangit. When ya gotta ya gotta..

I think it's well established that every denomination thinks it's the correct one, although some would grant that members of other denominations have access to heaven as well. As for which one is right - only one way to find out. Wanna meet Jesus?

 

[unknown]

I am very pleased to see you find the phrase "Bible In a Blender" theology so offensive, that was my intention from the git-go. It means the same thing as "Cherry Picking" which is exactly what you have done. You can't deal with your criticism of one interpretation of one scripture without support from other books, so you add the ones that you think will reinforce your position. You get things out context taking from one book and adding it to another. I think you are offended because my comment hit too close to home, didn't it?

Lets look at the scripture in context, shall we?

John17:21
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

This was the first scripture that I commented on. I said "That they all may be" means they are not. If what I said is not true, the prayer would never have been needed. it was that simple until....

You disagreed.

that they may all be is a reference to the CHURCH just a half sentence before, and the members of in what you quote. The process is prayed for by JESUS to be accomplished. Not be a continual process.



Paul writes on this in eph 4, where he shows they are brought to the point, through works, LED BY THE CHURCH, to unity and knowledge of Christ, until they are as perfect as Jesus Christ Himself was. (assuming you know what the word "perfect " in Greek meant.
It's expected of them to attain, NOT, strive eternally for. IN THIS LIFE not after. if you want more scriptures I can bury you in them, but I thought these were the best to start with.

I guess you could add the John 17 vs fragment, me in you and them in me, and put it with 1 john 3:6 and weep. It's certainly going to change your perspective on things. In fact it will make you mad and you'll accuse me of things.

Now let's look at Ephesians 4......

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:


31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

These were also written in the future tense; perfecting, ,Till we all come in the unity of the faith will become, may grow up, be put away from you,

Ephesians 4 doesn't support your claim, in fact it supports mine. It's a process! It is not just a process in the church it is a process in each individual.



you also made reference to 1 john 3:6

1 john 3:6
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him

but skipped over verse 2

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

again we see the oneness with God written about in John17:21, still hasn't happened. What does it say? If the "church" was one with God, Jesus would have already returned. it says "when he shall appear".



you also thew Gal5:19-21 into your salad, and ignored verse 5

Gal5:5

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

again future tense,


I have asked "where" is this oneness? you reply that you are not Oneness....how does "I am not" answer "where"? Tell me who has become one with God, what man or church? When did Jesus return? 1John3:2