toldailytopic: The reprobate. Are some people born with no hope of salvation?

[Nang]

Then how did man manage to usurp the Sovereign will of God to begin with? :liberals:

Man has not usurped the sovereign will of God at all.

Nang

 

[Arthur Brain]

Man has not usurped the sovereign will of God at all.

Nang

So God decreed that 'innocent and upright' man wouldn't display faith in His word then? :liberals:

 

[Nang]

So God decreed that 'innocent and upright' man wouldn't display faith in His word then? :liberals:

"Faith" is not an innate attribute of created beings.

Faith in the Word of God comes only by being spiritually born of the One faithful Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Nang

 

[Krsto]

Here is the Reformed view of "Reprobation" (i.e. many souls are consigned by God Almighty God to hell for sin):

Reprobation is not the cause of unbelief.

Reprobation is not because of unbelief.

God accomplishes sovereignly His eternal decree of reprobation IN THE WAY OF UNBELIEF.

In this way, God's sovereignty is maintained and man's accountability is preserved.

Do not reply to this post within ten seconds, ten minutes, or even ten days.

Think about the above statements for awhile . . .

Reflect on this explanation of the doctrine of Reprobation for a decent period of time before you either reply in agreement with this position as being totally Scriptural and sound, or reject this explanation as being unbiblical and therefore wrong.

Nang

Can you distinguish between God's consigment as a cause of unbelief and God's assignment "in the way of unbelief"?

 

[Nick M]

Then how did man manage to usurp the Sovereign will of God to begin with? :liberals:

I will very much agree with you on this one. Man's track record, including my own, shows the ability to rebel against him. With great consistency.

 

[Arthur Brain]

"Faith" is not an innate attribute of created beings.

Faith in the Word of God comes only by being spiritually born of the One faithful Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Nang

Well then, why describe the original state of created man as 'innocent and upright' then? If that were the case then the only deviation would be either decreed by God or against the Will of God.

You're contradicting yourself.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I will very much agree with you on this one. Man's track record, including my own, shows the ability to rebel against him. With great consistency.

Well, we're certainly on the same page regarding opposition to Calvinism if nothing else then Nick.

:e4e:

 

[Nang]

So God decreed that 'innocent and upright' man wouldn't display faith in His word then? :liberals:

Yes.

God decreed salvation would be realized through unbelief, so that all salvation would be a matter of grace . . . and not a matter of finding righteousness by man trying or achieving to be like God under the Law.

Comprehende?

 

[Nang]

Well then, why describe the original state of created man as 'innocent and upright' then? If that were the case then the only deviation would be either decreed by God or against the Will of God.

You're contradicting yourself.

No, I do not contradict myself.

Being created as innocent and upright flesh does not compare to being born again, and being found spiritually faithful.

The first Adam, made of dust does not compare with the last Adam, Jesus Christ, in whom all righteousness and perfect faithfulness is found.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yes.

God decreed salvation would be realized through unbelief, so that all salvation would be a matter of grace . . . and not a matter of finding righteousness by man trying or achieving to be like God under the Law.

Comprehende?

Then you're still contradicting yourself by initially maintaining that original created man was 'innocent and upright'. He obviously wasn't by this reasoning. He was flawed, and it was by God's design.

 

[Ktoyou]

The original state of created man was innocent and upright.

However, this innocent and upright man failed to display faith in the word and promises of God.

Think longer about that.

Nang

That is not what I am talking about and I would expect you to know it.

 

[surrender]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for July 12th, 2011 08:59 AM

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NO.

 

[Arthur Brain]

No, I do not contradict myself.

Being created as innocent and upright flesh does not compare to being born again, and being found spiritually faithful.

The first Adam, made of dust does not compare with the last Adam, Jesus Christ, in whom all righteousness and perfect faithfulness is found.

So innocent and upright people are predestined to hell then? If not then you contradict yourself. If you disagree then the imperfection that causes those to lose their innocence is designed by God, in which case you still contradict yourself.

 

[Nang]

Then you're still contradicting yourself by initially maintaining that original created man was 'innocent and upright'. He obviously wasn't by this reasoning. He was flawed, and it was by God's design.

You are assuming that being created in a state of innocence is equivalent to being morally perfect like God.

Adam, made of dust, was never morally equivalent to his Maker.

 

[Nang]

So innocent and upright people are predestined to hell then?

What innocent and upright people do you refer to?

There is no such thing, since the fall of Adam.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You are assuming that being created in a state of innocence is equivalent to being morally perfect like God.

Adam, made of dust, was never morally equivalent to his Maker.

You also said created 'upright', so how did the innocence and the latter disappear if not by the Sovereign Will of God? It's a complete dichotomy Nang.

 

[Arthur Brain]

What innocent and upright people do you refer to?

There is no such thing, since the fall of Adam.

I didn't. You did and you should have thought better of it. Even Adam wasn't innocent and upright as you claim else he wouldn't have fallen would he? :squint:

 

[Nang]

That is not what I am talking about and I would expect you to know it.

Faith does not change the total depravity of man.

Faith changes the fate of totally depraved men.

And saving faith is the gift of God. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Christians are saved by faith in the righteousness of Christ alone, not due to any human choices or works that somehow changes them ontologically.

 

[Nang]

You also said created 'upright', so how did the innocence and the latter disappear if not by the Sovereign Will of God? It's a complete dichotomy Nang.

That is the exact subject of this thread!

God is sovereign over all things; even reprobation. God has decreed salvation of His creatures would come through and despite unbelief, as a matter of grace alone, to bring glory to Jesus Christ alone.

Sola Gratia!

Sola Deo Gloria!

A grasp of this divine truth does not come in a matter of minutes, but only after sincere study of God's word, for the fallen mind and natural thinking of mankind is in complete enmity (accursed hatred and disagreement) to the thinking and greater will of God.

 

[Nang]

I didn't. You did and you should have thought better of it. Even Adam wasn't innocent and upright as you claim else he wouldn't have fallen would he? :squint:

It is the word of God that declared Adam to be "very good" in his created state. Not me. Genesis 1:31

You are insisting on equating this created condition of goodness as being morally perfect like God, and Adam even created in the image of God, was not created equal with God.

God decreed that salvation for all His creation would come through the unbelief of man, and contrasted with the moral perfection and grace of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

I Corinthians 15:42-49