toldailytopic: The oil crisis. What are some ideas that might help us be less depende

[MrDeets]

Oil is primarily carbon. We burn it and it becomes CO2 in the atmosphere. How do you suggest it magically recycles itself into new oil? Or are you going to deny the nature of combustion as well?

Oh, yes, NickM is a crazy moron. And your knowledge of the oilfield is astounding.:down:

Why don't individual oil wells magically start producing more oil then, if the earth were producing more?

:doh:SHAZAAM

You really do believe any crackpot idea that comes along don't you? Anything that agrees with your worldview anyway. You really are one of the dumbest and craziest people I have ever seen.

Its not a crackpot idea. Actually in the oilfield it is considered to be legit. Engineers already specify between abiotic and dino-oil. Maybe before slinging names you should try google.

 

[bybee]

Good way to destroy the auto manufacturing industry by imposing impossible CAFE standards.

Criminalize to the extent of property confiscation. Good one!

Extend power of government further over the individual.

Cash incentives? Sounds like a huge tax increase.

There is no indication that a high-speed rail system would do that. What you're proposing here is to make driving and flying so expensive that people will be forced to participate in a command economy.

Basically, your solution is to enrich centralized government and increase its power and control over the individual citizen. Didn't realize you were so much against freedom.

Power appears to rotate between the most immoral and aggressive hands on a regular basis. When one power monger implodes from it's own unholy stink another rises to takes it's place.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Power appears to rotate between the most immoral and aggressive hands on a regular basis. When one power monger implodes from it's own unholy stink another rises to takes it's place.

Classic war between Good and Evil. It will continue until Jesus returns to put an end to it. Revelation, chapter 20.

 

[Town Heretic]

Good way to destroy the auto manufacturing industry by imposing impossible CAFE standards.

Nothing impossible about it. My wife's car, which isn't a hybrid, gets nearly forty miles to the gallon.

Criminalize to the extent of property confiscation. Good one!

So, you think we should allow people who've robbed gas stations to own guns when they get out?

Extend power of government further over the individual.

If by your ominous sounding "power of the government" you mean pass laws, sure. That's what I'm proposing. You're still chaffing under the oppressive weight of those government mandated anti-freedom straps, are you?

Cash incentives? Sounds like a huge tax increase.

I actually meant to write tax incentives. Sorry about that.

There is no indication that a high-speed rail system would do that.

Sure there is. It's a simple matter of cost and time. High speed trains are more efficient deliverers in every sense of the word.

What you're proposing here is to make driving and flying so expensive that people will be forced to participate in a command economy.

Well, no. There are already numerous cars that meet my requirement and to no ill economic effect. But I suppose you could transition from 30 to 35 over a few years, to allow some redesigns on some models.

Basically, your solution is to enrich centralized government

Nothing in my suggestions actually does that, unless you mean fines, ect. A little like the argument for taking the hand of a thief. Example breeds impulse. My solutions are meant to wean us from the teat of our ideological enemies and to reduce the ability of outside powers to ruin our economy while they enrich their own.

and increase its power and control over the individual citizen.

You could say that about capital punishment or any good law. You want those repealed? Or is your moral outrage a peculiarly narrow instrument?

Didn't realize you were so much against freedom.

Still beat your wife, Frank?

:e4e:

 

[bybee]

Classic war between Good and Evil. It will continue until Jesus returns to put an end to it. Revelation, chapter 20.

Amen

 

[The Berean]

I am going to pretend like your post was accurate and informative. SO WHAT!! Saying we don't have much doesn't mean we don't look for more you giant retard! We have just started with the Bakken formation.

Here you can read about it from the USGS. Although I find it hard to believe nobody knows of it with all the emails. Even the fake ones that get edited by liberals so they can say it is false later.

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

And we know that the earth's total reserve keeps going up instead of down, despite our huge increases in usage. This is because oil is not from dead dinosaurs. Even the heathen know this. Unless you think they lived miles under the ocean floor. The earth makes oil as a byproduct.

Specifically, earth has gone from a known 1.0 trillion to 1.3 trillion in 20 years. Of proven reserves. All the while demand has also gone through the roof. So why do we have even more? The left holds it back, so prices go up. That includes re-publicans, chrysostom.

I should have gone into the oil industry. They pay mechanical engineers top dollar!

 

[rexlunae]

my solution is

increase the cost of all energy by increasing the taxes on it

I actually agree. That just might work.

 

[agnostic_gnostic]

Increased extraction of oil is only a VERY temporary solution.
----------------
"Sometimes complex truths become more clear when we put them in very simple terms. Around the world, political leaders are still living in the delusion that we have time on our hands to find sensible alternatives to oil. But global oil production has peaked. "
FROM
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/
US oil extraction peaked in 1970.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

 

[Alate_One]

Oh, yes, NickM is a crazy moron.

Actually yes he is. That site is an anti-scientific site. Much like Nick himself. Like so many whackjob sites, they love to pretty it up with a nice sounding name. Since you're a fan of wikipedia . . . . How about you read about abiological oil? It never made a sucessful prediction about where to find oil so it has been long abandoned by people actually working in oil fields.

And your knowledge of the oilfield is astounding.:down:
:doh:SHAZAAM

Wow. And you think that somehow contradicts what I just posted? Did you actually read even the title of the link you used? It is "enhanced oil recovery".

To get into specifics there are several ways of looking at oil in the ground. There is how much is actually there, how much can be recovered using a given level of technology, and how much is economically feasible to recover.

As technology improves, we can go back and retrieve oil that was previously either economically or technologically unfeasible to retrieve. That doesn't mean there is more oil seeping up from somewhere. If there were we could go back to the same wells with the SAME technology and get more oil.

Its not a crackpot idea. Actually in the oilfield it is considered to be legit. Engineers already specify between abiotic and dino-oil. Maybe before slinging names you should try google.

Um. no. it isn't a "legit" idea. It's useless in finding oil. And scientific ideas are judged based on how well they actually *work*.

 

[agnostic_gnostic]

It can be argued that increased extraction will decrease the price and therefore increase consumption and hasten the end of available oil.
It seems to be human nature. When someone gradually gets weaker , they are less likely to take action than if overnight their condition worsens dramatically.

 

[MrDeets]

Actually yes he is. That site is an anti-scientific site. Much like Nick himself. Like so many whackjob sites, they love to pretty it up with a nice sounding name. Since you're a fan of wikipedia . . . . How about you read about abiological oil? It never made a sucessful prediction about where to find oil so it has been long abandoned by people actually working in oil fields.

I have. Abiotic/ abiogenic is the same thing.

Evolution has never made a successful prediction on what animal will evolve next, or where humans will evolve into next, so then I guess those "scientific" evolutionists will just give up, then.

Wow. And you think that somehow contradicts what I just posted? Did you actually read even the title of the link you used? It is "enhanced oil recovery".

Not contradict. Its just an thought. We are steadily finding new ways to produce and give life to old played out fields. Bad link placement, I guess. I probably could tell you way more about EOR than that article, I just don't have the time or energy.

To get into specifics there are several ways of looking at oil in the ground. There is how much is actually there, how much can be recovered using a given level of technology, and how much is economically feasible to recover.

Gee, thanks. I needed a lesson. lain: Ever drilled a well? How about pumped one? What about surveys- ever taken a gander at one of those bad boys outside of the net?

Um. no. it isn't a "legit" idea. It's useless in finding oil. And scientific ideas are judged based on how well they actually *work*.

So I guess you personally have taken a sampling of geologists, reservoir engineers, and the like and know their thoughts?I bet.

 

[Alate_One]

I have. Abiotic/ abiogenic is the same thing.

Evolution has never made a successful prediction on what animal will evolve next, or where humans will evolve into next, so then I guess those "scientific" evolutionists will just give up, then.

Evolution has made plenty of predictions and they've all been confirmed. See Darwin's Hawkmoth. OR you could predict antibiotic resistance in bacteria. Chemotherapy resistance in cancers, etc.

Darwin's Hawkmoth

But frankly what does evolution have to do with oil anyway?

Not contradict. Its just an thought. We are steadily finding new ways to produce and give life to old played out fields. Bad link placement, I guess. I probably could tell you way more about EOR than that article, I just don't have the time or energy.

Uh huh. You posted it like you had made a fool of me. Now you're backing down as you realize it was you that looked foolish. Indeed technology is going to help us continually find more oil but eventually whatever technology we come up with is going to be cost prohibitive for producing any more oil. You only have so much crust of the earth you can reach without using more energy to reach the oil than the oil would give you. Plus the physical properties of the earth make oil improbable past a certain depth.

The price of oil will keep going up as demand goes up and supply struggles to keep pace.

Oil is a nonrenewable resource, period. We can make all kinds of technological changes to make it last longer but eventually we will run out. Maybe 50 years maybe 200. Maybe climate change will finally convince people that oil probably isn't the best energy source anyway. With science deniers like yourself running around, gathering political will is going to be difficult. Or we may just use up all the oil and THEN try to scramble for alternatives.

Gee, thanks. I needed a lesson. lain: Ever drilled a well? How about pumped one? What about surveys- ever taken a gander at one of those bad boys outside of the net?

The way you were talking, it looked like you did. You essentially asserted that enhanced extraction equals oil replenishing itself. Just because you may participate in pumping and drilling oil doesn't mean you understand how oil fields are discovered in the first place.

So I guess you personally have taken a sampling of geologists, reservoir engineers, and the like and know their thoughts?I bet.

Why do so many that are anti-science take personal testimony as superior to published reports?
If you want a firsthand account, read this article Or you look at what is in textbooks. They are based on the consensus of scientists, and what is functionally done in the field. Or you can ask our semi-resident ToL geologist. Take your pick or do them all.

 

[Paulos]

So I guess you personally have taken a sampling of geologists, reservoir engineers, and the like and know their thoughts?I bet.

The article you linked to on the subject has this to say in the last paragraph:

"The abiogenic origin theory of oil formation is rejected by most geologists..."​

 

[Nick M]

I should have gone into the oil industry. They pay mechanical engineers top dollar!

Halliburton pays good, period. Most of the work is out of the country in crummy conditions.

 

[Nick M]

And until somebody explains (old earther) how dinosaurs got miles under the ocean floor, you can stop with the "fossil fuel" nonsense. And then explain how a used up well gets refilled. I am not talking of technology and being able to get more out of the well, I am talking about the region showing no longer producing, then 30 years later, it is producing again.

Of course, Bible believers know the answer.

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the earth shows his handywork.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Nothing impossible about it. My wife's car, which isn't a hybrid, gets nearly forty miles to the gallon.

Then we're already there and don't need further government interference.

So, you think we should allow people who've robbed gas stations to own guns when they get out?

Ok. That's appropriately off-the-wall.

If by your ominous sounding "power of the government" you mean pass laws, sure. That's what I'm proposing. You're still chaffing under the oppressive weight of those government mandated anti-freedom straps, are you?

Locally, the way it was done, the fact that the KY state police lied about it, yes. Pretty much the same in Indiana.

I actually meant to write tax incentives. Sorry about that.

Same government subsidy called by a different name.

Sure there is. It's a simple matter of cost and time. High speed trains are more efficient deliverers in every sense of the word.

Only if cost remains static, which it won't.

Well, no. There are already numerous cars that meet my requirement and to no ill economic effect. But I suppose you could transition from 30 to 35 over a few years, to allow some redesigns on some models.

"No ill economic effect" remains to be seen. The market hasn't existed long enough.

Nothing in my suggestions actually does that, unless you mean fines, ect. A little like the argument for taking the hand of a thief. Example breeds impulse. My solutions are meant to wean us from the teat of our ideological enemies and to reduce the ability of outside powers to ruin our economy while they enrich their own.

Exactly why the Department of Energy was created. Success story?

You could say that about capital punishment or any good law. You want those repealed? Or is your moral outrage a peculiarly narrow instrument?

I'd rather stick to the subject than try to engage the nebulosity of natural vs statute law.

Still beat your wife, Frank?

:darwinsm: I'm beginning to have some doubts about that law school you went to.

 

[agnostic_gnostic]

"And until somebody explains (old earther) how dinosaurs got miles under the ocean floor..."
Nick M
It has been common sense for hundreds of years and known by most Junior High school students that the deeper you dig the older the material.* Also, dinosaurs caused only a VERY tiny percentage of the world's oil. Most was caused by sea life ( mostly plants) and land plants. The fact is, is that oil is formed from decaying organic matter, pressure and time.

*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratification_(archeology)
PS; This gets complicated. As I said before dinosaurs are responsible for only a very tiny percentage of oil ( in that their decaying organic material over millions of years and pressure becomes oil) . However, lets suppose that some dinosaur oil is under the ocean. That is explained by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_drift

 

[Lon]

Mandate that:

No car produced or imported into this country can get less than 35 miles to the gallon within the next five years.

No car (other than police or emergency vehicles) can be sold or operated without a device that limits its top speed to a universally mandated 65 miles per hour maximum and enact harsh fiscal penalties for violations.

Any car currently on the road have installed a device to indicate speeds in excess of that within five years.

Also, give cash incentives to companies that convert their goods transporting rigs to natural gas and to stations that provide it.

Build a high speed railway system between major population centers to further undercut the cost of shipping large amounts of consumer goods and to make longer trips by consumers less wasteful and more affordable than driving or flying.

Just a few things that would have a staggering impact on our ability to cut the purse strings of nations that take our money but are hostile to our interests and undermine our economy.

Great list. The only problem I have is that I like to drive 70 on the highway where allowed and would hate restriction.
It would have been great, while we had the chance with the bail-out in Detroit, to have given incentives for electric cars, and hybrids mass-produced at an affordable price (also giving the consumer a tax break the year they buy one of perhaps "no taxes at all for one year").

 

[Paulos]

dinosaurs caused only a VERY tiny percentage of the world's oil. Most was caused by sea life ( mostly plants) and land plants.

Here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel#Origin

 

[Town Heretic]

Great list. The only problem I have is that I like to drive 70 on the highway where allowed and would hate restriction.
It would have been great, while we had the chance with the bail-out in Detroit, to have given incentives for electric cars, and hybrids mass-produced at an affordable price (also giving the consumer a tax break the year they buy one of perhaps "no taxes at all for one year").

Hey Lon...well, your gas tank will thank you for the marginal decrease in speed and, really, even if you're driving for an hour you're talking about a five mile difference which is less than five minutes. A relatively solid trade off for the fuel difference (and safer to boot).

Couple that with mpg mandates that Ktoyou suggests could be affected without particular structural changes (more of a gearing problem) and natural gas could all but ween us from that malevolent dependence while we work out the kinks on what will likely be a multifaceted next generation answer to oil, involving nuclear, solar, wind and created fuel sources. And yes, we can add hemp into that mix.

:e4e: