I'm not sure I could do that.
toldailytopic: The Catholics: what did they get right, and what did they get wrong?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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I'm not sure I could do that.
nor to reason and logic
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
That's understandable. There is more individualism in non-Catholic Christian denominations. In fact, that individualism is a legacy of the Reformation, and many non-Catholics hold that individualism fiercely.
On the other hand, we Catholics are used to being part of the one Church, with one identity, and it's a comfortable connected yoke, so to speak.
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annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
You can call yourself a Catholic as your preferred designation. It's a free country.
I just want others here to know that your understanding of what it is to be Catholic and the general understanding of what it is to be Catholic are not the same.
:yawn:
I know what I can and can't do.
Neither Right nor Wrong: The Roman Catholic Church and Organization caused the Reformation. It is an unstable situation. There are about five hundred million Christians who've run away, and it remains to be seen how the Roman Catholic Church and Organization will call them all back home.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
I know what I can and can't do.
Neither Right nor Wrong: The Roman Catholic Church and Organization caused the Reformation. It is an unstable situation. There are about five hundred million Christians who've run away, and it remains to be seen how the Roman Catholic Church and Organization will call them all back home.
But you don't seem to know what you are and are not.
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
The authority of the Church has been handed down from the apostles, who received it from Christ Himself.
I think I'm somewhere in the middle. As I said in my 1st post in this thread, I like Catholicism's tradition. I think to lose tradition is to cut yourself off from what you are holding on to. What the early church taught and how they operated is very valuable, in my opinion. When scripture can be interpreted in a myriad of ways, what better thing to look to than the tradition of the early church? The people nearest to the events?
But on the other hand, I'm wary of taking the step that puts full authority and infallibility in their hands. I don't think I'd be a good Catholic because I don't think I could submit to the Church on certain things.
PureX
Well-known member
I'm a little hesitant to enter into this discussion, as I am not a Catholic, and not even especially Christian, in a religious sense. But I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic schools most of my childhood, so I feel I do have some idea of their catechism.
What did they get right? I would have to say that their schools are pretty good. They keep order in their classes, they pay attention to all the students, and to their family situations. They care about the well-being of their students both in and out of the classrooms. They hire knowledgeable teachers and their use of student uniforms serves everyone wisely. They do teach the Catholic religion, but they also teach well-rounded and informed non-religious curriculum. I think there is no doubt that their K-12 schools are excellent, and are superior to even many of the better public schools.
What did they get wrong? Where do I begin? For me, their biggest mistake was to set up a religious organization that is hierarchical and militaristic in the sense that no one in the hierarchy is allowed to question anyone above them in the hierarchy. Any system involving and operated by human beings will inevitably be subject to a good deal of error, and the establishment of such a rigid hierarchy only serves to entrench and even justify those errors rather than seeking to discover and correct them. And the second (perhaps this should be first) thing the Catholics got wrong was to place the pope, a flawed human being, in the position of being Christ's "stand in". No human being has the degree of perfection that would be required to actually function as a stand-in for Christ, and presuming to allow someone to take that position is just begging for abuse and failure. And not only that, the Catholic church further falls into this flawed hole by claiming that the church itself is the representation of Christ on Earth! Thus they place themselves as some sort of gate-keepers between individuals and God. This is not only wildly wrong, wrong-headed, and dangerous, it actually becomes a horrible stumbling block for a lot of people.
I am no longer a Catholic, and will never return to that religious perspective as long as they insist on holding to these two extremely wrong and damaging positions. And I see no reason to imagine that they will change. So we are permanently parted. Though I thank them for a good basic education, and for their honest help during a rough time in later years.
What did they get right? I would have to say that their schools are pretty good. They keep order in their classes, they pay attention to all the students, and to their family situations. They care about the well-being of their students both in and out of the classrooms. They hire knowledgeable teachers and their use of student uniforms serves everyone wisely. They do teach the Catholic religion, but they also teach well-rounded and informed non-religious curriculum. I think there is no doubt that their K-12 schools are excellent, and are superior to even many of the better public schools.
What did they get wrong? Where do I begin? For me, their biggest mistake was to set up a religious organization that is hierarchical and militaristic in the sense that no one in the hierarchy is allowed to question anyone above them in the hierarchy. Any system involving and operated by human beings will inevitably be subject to a good deal of error, and the establishment of such a rigid hierarchy only serves to entrench and even justify those errors rather than seeking to discover and correct them. And the second (perhaps this should be first) thing the Catholics got wrong was to place the pope, a flawed human being, in the position of being Christ's "stand in". No human being has the degree of perfection that would be required to actually function as a stand-in for Christ, and presuming to allow someone to take that position is just begging for abuse and failure. And not only that, the Catholic church further falls into this flawed hole by claiming that the church itself is the representation of Christ on Earth! Thus they place themselves as some sort of gate-keepers between individuals and God. This is not only wildly wrong, wrong-headed, and dangerous, it actually becomes a horrible stumbling block for a lot of people.
I am no longer a Catholic, and will never return to that religious perspective as long as they insist on holding to these two extremely wrong and damaging positions. And I see no reason to imagine that they will change. So we are permanently parted. Though I thank them for a good basic education, and for their honest help during a rough time in later years.
Evoken
New member
The either/or dilemma you present ignores that Christ can delegate authority to someone else (like the apostles) while still holding authority himself.
Evo
Evoken
New member
The Church has never condemned Evolution and Her attitude towards it, specially over the last and current pontificates, has been one of acceptance and that there is no conflict between it and the faith. Her current position is very much that of theistic evolution, as opposed to creationism or intelligent design. But there is no "official" endorsement of this view from the Church which makes theistic evolution a doctrine, so the Creationist view can also be embraced by Catholics and in so doing they can still be in good standing with The Church.
You may see this post as well.
Evo
Heretics.
Thanks. :thumb:
That is another check for the column of things the Church gets right.
Individual popes/clergy have said there's no conflict. The official doctrine is in the Council of Trent: "From the slime of the earth."
zippy2006
New member
But on the other hand, I'm wary of taking the step that puts full authority and infallibility in their hands. I don't think I'd be a good Catholic because I don't think I could submit to the Church on certain things.
But you would presumably have no problem submitting to Christ, so the question is rather "is the Catholic Church who she claims to be?" Sort of like the strings that are attached to the question "Is Jesus Christ Who He claims to be?" ...two questions which I realize you aren't quite settled on
Aimiel
Well-known member
That authority belongs to every believer. He indwells us and lives through us. He doesn't respect persons the way that the pagan Romanist church does. That's religianity, not Christianity. Christ lives in us, not an institution. He came to do away with institutions. Didn't you read The Bible? :duh:
Aimiel
Well-known member
Having give us authority over demons and all the power of the enemy, He's seated at The Right Hand of The Father expecting us to make His enemies into His Footstool. Once we do, He'll come back for the victorious church we will one day become.