toldailytopic: The Catholics: what did they get right, and what did they get wrong?

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
what did they get right?

Jesus is God
Jesus is Our Redeemer
"This is My Body"
He knows our works

what did they get wrong?

selling indulgences
ordaining homosexuals
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Renouncing my spiritual heritage is worse than renouncing my ethnic heritage.

:e4e:


You say here you are a muslim:

Thank you Jacob.

I am a Muslim because I submit and surrender to God Most High.

Because I submit and surrender to God Most High, Who led me, through His Word in the Qur'an, to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior of my soul, and that God Most High raised Him from the dead (Ro 10:8,9), I am a Christian. I have received the Holy Spirit, as the Lord Jesus Christ taught (Jn 20:22), and I bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22,23).

I accept the Old Testament, New Testament and Qur'an as Scripture, and especially that the Lord Jesus Christ, His words, and the words of the Qur'an are the literal words of God Most High - that the Lord Jesus Christ, His words, and the words of the Qur'an are directly God's Word. I accept Muhammad (SAW) as the Seal of God Most High's prophets, and that the Qur'an is a miracle because Muhammad (SAW) was illiterate.

I accept that the Catholic Church is the organization that traces its root all the way back to the Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles. I believe that the Catholic Church still has its best years ahead of us, and that it will play a prominent role in the Return of the Lord Jesus Christ, as a powerful tool in the Hand of God Most High, of the Lord Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Catholic Church will bring all Christians home one Day.

:)


And then go on in the same post to say you are a Catholic.

To fully claim both religions is impossible. :idunno:
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Due to the overall spirit which dominated the council with it's overly optimistic attitude towards the world/men, the neglect to condemn many prevalent errors and the ambiguity of it's texts. The ambiguity emerges mostly from a combination of the verbose nature of the documents, the council issuing no canons and omitting plenty of distinct Catholic terminology in it's texts. However, that the council documents are ambiguous or that they did not condemn some particular error, is something which of itself doesn't makes the council texts erroneous. There is also the aftermath of the council, something which was poorly handled, to say the least.



The problem is not so much with them doing natural good but with the inversion of the end of The Church's mission, which by divine mandate is essentially supernatural and concerned with proclaiming the gospel, leading men towards faith in Christ and administering the Sacraments to them.

Those in the Church's hierarchy that I was referring to rather cast the Christian faith in a secular dimension and focus on the achievement of purely natural and temporal goods to the exclusion of supernatural ones. They are more concerned with issues related to politics, the environment, fighting poverty and hatred, eliminating war, etc. All of which is good in itself but not without any reference to the supernatural end of man and his necessity of repentance and conversion to the faith, which is what they omit and refuse to proclaim.

Ecumenism, which I mentioned as well, is related to this issue. The sort of Ecumenism which has become prominent is not one with the conversion of others to the faith as it's end, but with "getting along" with people of other religions, turning a blind eye to differences on matters of faith and focusing instead on keeping "peaceful" relationships and endless dialogue with them.

Thus the idea of proclaiming the gospel to them, of calling them to conversion, is altogether abandoned. As can be seen, for example, in the message sent by the Pontifical Council of Interreligious Dialogue to Buddhists, on occasion of their Vesak festival. This document also highlights the problem I was referring to, namely, the focus on the achievement of purely natural goods to the exclusion of supernatural ones.


Evo

Thanks. :e4e:
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
selling indulgences

To be clear, the Church did not sell indulgences, the practice was never part of Catholic theology, doctrine, or discipline. (There were, as will always be because we are sinful) abuses of the system. As Catholic.com states:
One never could "buy" indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms—indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . . It is well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil. To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded."
 

Evoken

New member
Can Catholics say that any Church teaching is wrong?

Catholics can't say that anything which The Church has defined as an article of faith and authoritatively proposes for belief is wrong. Nor can they reject it, as in, deciding which teachings to believe in or not. The "Cafeteria Catholic" attitude is contrary to the virtue of faith.

That said, not everything which the Pope or a bishop says constitutes binding Church teaching.


Evo
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Catholics can't say that anything which The Church has defined as an article of faith and authoritatively proposes for belief is wrong. Nor can they reject it, as in, deciding which teachings to believe in or not. The "Cafeteria Catholic" attitude is contrary to the virtue of faith.

That said, not everything which the Pope or a bishop says constitutes binding Church teaching.


Evo

here is a clear two part question

do we have to accept all 750 pages of the Catholic catechism?
and
must we be aware of what is in it?
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Doesn't it mean that they are, in fact, wrong?

If, as Evo said above, the Church speaks on a matter she has "defined as an article of faith and authoritatively proposes for belief" then yes, the Catholic is wrong.

Is there anything that you don't really see, or agree with, but you go with it anyway because you submit to their authority?

Even if I don't have the ability to fully comprehend an article of faith, I submit willingly to the authority of the Church.
 
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