amen
toldailytopic: Some say: Hate the sin, love the sinner. But what does God say?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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amen
elohiym
Well-known member
Setting aside your assertion that God's love for Jacob was not agape, and the clear contrast between how God loved Jacob and hated Esau...
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Odd how God can value a person enough to sacrifice for his well being, yet He will not hear sinners and will destroy all sinners eventually (Isa 13:9).
Is it possible that you're missing something?
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Odd how God can value a person enough to sacrifice for his well being, yet He will not hear sinners and will destroy all sinners eventually (Isa 13:9).
Is it possible that you're missing something?
elohiym
Well-known member
The wicked do not do the will of my Father in heaven.
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
You made the false assumption that love and hate are mutually exclusive. Knowing they are not, care to rethink your position?
Does that include calling people the spawn of satan? Of course, the answer is yes. If Jesus did not love the Pharisee, he would have told them "you guys are wonderful and special", or something similar. But because he loved them, he rebuked them sharply, said they are of their father the devil, liars and murderers.
zoo22
Well-known member
1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Matthew 5:43: You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor" and hate your enemy; Lev. 19:18
Matthew 5:44: but I say to you, Love your enemies; bless those cursing you, do well to those hating you; and pray for those abusing and persecuting you,
Matthew 5:45: so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. Because He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and unjust.
Matthew 5:46: For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same?
Matthew 5:47: And if you only greet your brothers, what exceptional thing do you do? Do not the tax-collectors do so?
Matthew 5:48: Therefore, you be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect.
So you think everyone is a Christian?
Jesus seems to put them in opposition to each other.
Son of Jack
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Agreed. They are mutually exclusive until someone can show that they are not (I think kmo's citation makes that quite difficult). I think we would be wise to frame the discussion around the definitions of the two words.
What is love?
What is hate?
The Graphite
New member
Ah yes, one of my favorite verses from II Opinions 5. In fact, this topic is discussed quite a bit in 1st, 2nd and 3rd Opinions, as I recall. Right up there with "God helps those who help themselves," and "Party trumps person," and especially "God existed before time." :doh:
A strong emotion that is defind in many ways, but we will stick with what Jesus spoke of, not your love for your wife. The opposite would be empathy, no emotion for the person.
Feelings against and action against.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
One can only presume you meant to say 'apathy' there Nick unless it was a Freudian slip....
lain:
Krsto
Well-known member
A little background on agape love. The word agape comes from the root word "to make large." It's the idea that something that is larger has more value, as when a child thinks a nickle should be worth more than a dime because it's bigger.
Biblical words are defined by usage, as with words in any language. That's how Webster was able to come up with a definition for every word in our language and those def's change as people use the word differently. The word gay, for example, doesn't have the same definition it had a hundred years ago.
With agape 2 other ideas come into play with the word agape by bible times and those are the ideas of doing that which benefits the other and the idea of self-sacrifice.
For example: the Pharisees had agape for the chief seats in the Synagogue. They esteemed them and would make sacrifices to get them.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
This tells us the greater the agape, the more one will sacrifice for the benefit of the loved one, even to the point giving all.
That is why I say the opposite of agape is selfishness, not hatred.
Hatred is an emotion, while agape is not. We are commanded to agape regardless of our emotions. That is how we can agape our enemies while we still have hatred for them.
Have any of you men ever hated your wife? What does God call us men to do? Lay down our lives for our wife as Christ laid down his life for his bride, the church. Should your agape for her wait until your emotions of hate subside or should you agape her first so that your emotions of hate will subside?
If Christian men did the right thing, what do you think would happen to the divorce rate in the church?
Biblical words are defined by usage, as with words in any language. That's how Webster was able to come up with a definition for every word in our language and those def's change as people use the word differently. The word gay, for example, doesn't have the same definition it had a hundred years ago.
With agape 2 other ideas come into play with the word agape by bible times and those are the ideas of doing that which benefits the other and the idea of self-sacrifice.
For example: the Pharisees had agape for the chief seats in the Synagogue. They esteemed them and would make sacrifices to get them.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
This tells us the greater the agape, the more one will sacrifice for the benefit of the loved one, even to the point giving all.
That is why I say the opposite of agape is selfishness, not hatred.
Hatred is an emotion, while agape is not. We are commanded to agape regardless of our emotions. That is how we can agape our enemies while we still have hatred for them.
Have any of you men ever hated your wife? What does God call us men to do? Lay down our lives for our wife as Christ laid down his life for his bride, the church. Should your agape for her wait until your emotions of hate subside or should you agape her first so that your emotions of hate will subside?
If Christian men did the right thing, what do you think would happen to the divorce rate in the church?
zoo22
Well-known member
Of course not.
What do you make of 1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
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The Graphite
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THIS!
zoo22
Well-known member
I don't believe they are mutually exclusive... But I imagine someone can tell me otherwise.
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