toldailytopic: Should being diagnosed insane excuse capital punishment?

[Granite]

Yes, our current system does not work as a deterrent.
One of the reasons it doesn't work is because INSANE murderers are not being put to death.

Now you're just being obnoxious, unreasonable, and a bit of a nut.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Ahhh but your using a standard of law I don't adhere to, which is relevant I'll grant you, and further this renders the eye for an eye stuff both a false hood and inaccurate?

Where do you think "eye for an eye" came from?

Leviticus 24:20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.​

 

[Silent Hunter]

The more you talk, the more you expose how stupid you really are. Hitler murdered innocent people, you retard.

Hitler practically emptied the asylums of Germany to rid that society of lunatics, criminal and otherwise.

You're pleading a straw man in the guise of an exception.

It's obvious that you'd rather sling ad hominems than actually make an argument to substantiate your blood vengeance in any meaningful way.

One thing is certain, if you end up murdering someone, no court would execute you, on the grounds that you don't know your right hand from your left.

My invisible friend says that you're :kookoo:.

 

[Silent Hunter]

Then it is a good thing I am not advocating executing the sick because they are a burden to society.

You're not? You've fooled everyone but yourself then.

I am advocating the swift execution of justice on someone that doesn't think there is anything wrong with blowing people up and shooting them.

There is a substantial difference between "doesn't think there is anything wrong with blowing people up and shooting them" and "doesn't understand that there is anything wrong with blowing people up and shooting them".

 

[Silent Hunter]

Texas Executes a Killer of Two as the Victims' Family Watches

Leo Jenkins was executed today while relatives of the brother and sister he killed watched from a few feet away, the first time Texas has allowed the survivors of murder victims to witness a lethal injection.

Later, Linda Kelley, the mother of the victims, Mark Kelley and Kara Kelley Voss, spoke to reporters.

This was not difficult," Mrs. Kelley said for the family. "I'm glad that he's off this earth. I know where Leo Jenkins is right now. And it's really low. And I feel good about that. This is justice in a big way. Believe me, it was served tonight."​

:think:

You folks must be related.

Saddening is that you can actually claim, with a straight face, that the killer was/is the only heartless person in the room.

:sigh:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Now you're just being obnoxious, unreasonable, and a bit of a nut.

Now this is the point. You fancy me mad. Madmen
know nothing. But you should have seen me. You should
have seen how wisely I proceeded—with what caution—
with what foresight—with what dissimulation I went to
work! I was never kinder to the old man than during the
whole week before I killed him.
The Tell-Tale Heart ~ Edgar Allen Poe​

 

[Granite]

Now this is the point. You fancy me mad. Madmen
know nothing. But you should have seen me. You should
have seen how wisely I proceeded—with what caution—
with what foresight—with what dissimulation I went to
work! I was never kinder to the old man than during the
whole week before I killed him.
The Tell-Tale Heart ~ Edgar Allen Poe​

Thanks for proving my point.

Stop trolling, why don't you? This place already has plenty.

 

[PyramidHead]

We were talking about justice for bodily harm, then you changed the topic to justice for the theft of personal property. Let's just stick to justice for murder, which is a life for a life.

So you think that one absolute standard should apply to every individual case?

So the man who kills the dude he caught raping his daughter, he is condemned to death, in genuineoriginal's world. After all, the justice for murder is a life for a life.

 

[Nick M]

How do you apply a 'moral lesson' to someone incapable of understanding what morals even are? :hammer:

It isn't so much a moral lesson, and has nothing to do with teaching the criminal anything. Save for the fact that he is to meet his maker.

The lesson goes to all the other people. As already stated in this thread. I know, a lot of posts get missed. I skip them too.

Deuteronomy 17

11 According to the sentence of the law in which they instruct you, according to the judgment which they tell you, you shall do; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left from the sentence which they pronounce upon you. 12 Now the man who acts presumptuously and will not heed the priest who stands to minister there before the LORD your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall put away the evil from Israel. 13 And all the people shall hear and fear, and no longer act presumptuously.

 

[Selaphiel]

You are looking at what is best for the murderer, not what is best for the society.

Satisfying the primitive bloodlust of people who are more interested in vengeance than justice is not better for society. The better society is the one that understands mental illness and don't kill people who can't help their actions. Besides, what is the difference for society (in terms of security) whether the offender is killed or locked up in a psychiatric institution? If the offender is released, it is because the illness is gone (which as far as I understand is quite rare in cases of very serious mental illness) and the person is no longer a threat.

 

[Granite]

There's something medieval in this kind of thinking.

 

[chickenman]

Well just supposing we had a near to flawless judicial system where miscarriages of any sort were all but eradicated. Would it be justifiable to execute the mentally ill then?

Yes. Because a "near to flawless judicial system" wouldn't be so near-sighted as to think that the main point of capital punishment is to punish the offender. Not only does it keep the offender from ever offending again, but (and more importantly) it makes others fear doing the same.

That's why the DP has little effect in our country. Our government views it as simply removing the offender from society.

If an insane person accidentally kills a person, then he should be judged innocent. If an insane person kills a person on purpose, he should be executed swiftly, publicly, and painfully.

Murder is murder.

 

[ghost]

Y
If an insane person kills a person on purpose, he should be executed swiftly, publicly, and painfully.

This statement alone should strike all of us as sound. I mean, seriously, isn't murdering someone intentionally evidence that you are not of sound mind? :freak:

 

[Iconoclast]

You should try paying attention first, you'll find it to be cheaper in the long run.

Yeah right..

You believe that if someone is declared insane that we shouldn't execute them because we should put ourselves in their shoes, and if they can't or don't know what they did was wrong, that they should be spared the death penalty.

And just put in a cell for the rest of their lives.. So much more compassionate... But the same condition still applies to your original reasoning.

Isn't it even more unjust to keep someone in a cell for life for something that they don't or can't understand that they did was wrong.? Why yes it is now isn't it...
Put yourself in their shoes you need to feel their pain.
You are a fool....:zakath:

 

[genuineoriginal]

The better society is the one that understands mental illness and don't kill people who can't help their actions.

:rotfl:

Here is a new cause for you. Save the man eating tigers.

On the prowl for man-eating tigers

JAMBI, Sumatra, Indonesia – The tiger had ripped apart the body of 19-year-old Imam, and his remains were spread about 40 feet from his ransacked forest shelter. All that was left of his severed head was the bare skull. The tiger had eaten the rest it.​

 

[Town Heretic]

Self defense has long recognized as justification for killing. It is for the benefit of society to allow this justification.

And do you know why self defense is seen as different, even though both it and a murder end with a dead body?

That's capacity/intent.

 

[Lighthouse]

Fail to see the comparison here between a very unfortunate looking man and what appears to be a heroin addict?

Bigot.

 

[Quincy]

All I know, is if I lost control and went into full blown mania, then I actually killed someone, I'd hope they'd put me down. I'd not want to live the rest of my life in some type of asylum in that state of mind. I've had a few episodes where I become someone completely different and foreign from the normal me. It's terrifying stuff.

I don't see the difference between keeping someone criminally insane alive and keeping someone who is terminally ill alive against their will. Both suffer in ways you could only understand if you experienced it and both in their right minds wouldn't want to be there.

 

[genuineoriginal]

And do you know why self defense is seen as different, even though both it and a murder end with a dead body?

Self defense is seen as difference because the guilty party is killed during an attempted murder instead of after committing murder. Justice is served by the death of the guilty.

 

[Town Heretic]

All I know, is if I lost control and went into full blown mania, then I actually killed someone, I'd hope they'd put me down. I'd not want to live the rest of my life in some type of asylum in that state of mind. I've had a few episodes where I become someone completely different and foreign from the normal me. It's terrifying stuff.

I don't see the difference between keeping someone criminally insane alive and keeping someone who is terminally ill alive against their will. Both suffer in ways you could only understand if you experienced it and both in their right minds wouldn't want to be there.

The reason for keeping and treating the criminally insane is twofold: first, they may yet be cured. Second, we don't have the ethical, moral, or legal right to end their lives.