taikoo
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Ahh... but surely it takes one to know one.
toldailytopic: Judge not! Some say Christians shouldn't judge, what say you?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Ahh... but surely it takes one to know one.
Thanks taikoo.
Very kind of you--and in character.
As for ASCon... the problem isn't that he doesn't get it, but that he doesn't care if the facts contradict him. That's a form of insanity that no amount of reasoning can hope to penetrate.
Kindly show me anywhere in the writings of the Founding Fathers where sexual deviants "free speech rights" should be protected. To save you the time, you won't find it anywhere. What you will find however is legislation against homosexuality, and of course the pedophile lifestyle that so often goes along with it.
"That the detestable and abominable vice of buggery [sodomy] . . . shall be from henceforth adjudged felony . . . and that every person being thereof convicted by verdict, confession, or outlawry [unlawful flight to avoid prosecution], shall be hanged by the neck until he or she shall be dead."
http://lasalettejourney.blogspot.com/2009/07/founding-fathers-and-homosexuality.html
In the event that I missed it in the last paragraph bybee, show me where they openly embrace the "freedom of speech" of moral degenerates.
This is one of the many areas where we differ bybee. I don't consider anyone that defends an organization that represents child molesters as "christian", nor do I see Planned Parenthood, another organization that Town Heretic's beloved ACLU represents, as "rational".
Christians don't defend an atheist organization that was founded by communists, whose sole intent is to destroy the Christian based Constitutional Republic that liberals like you and Town Heretic take all too much for granted.
A God-hating atheist brought that to my attention not long ago as well.
Pastor Doug Wilson says that there are two tenets of atheism:
1) There is no God.
2) I HATE Him.
I agree with you on this one Horn; if you don't believe that God exists, you have no right to literally HATE His Word; something that the vast majority of atheists that I've met do.
Freedom of speech isn't about the content, but about the exercise. You can keep feigning ignorance on that point, but no one is fooled by it.
And you'll find laws at one time or another that allowed for owning people and restricted the rights of women. And until not too long ago you couldn't sell peanuts here on Sunday.
lain:"How much for that one?" Any number of slave owning founders at one time or another.
Show me where and how they distinguished the sort of speech in the document that protects it.
I defend the practice of protecting lawful speech. If you limit it to the sort you find agreeable then next you'll find yourself being silenced when you attempt to read into the public record and infuse into its conscience unpopular foundations of moral conduct. That you don't see that is sad, if predictable. Your opinion on the state of my soul is as concerning and determinative as it is rational, which is to say not at all.
It isn't my beloved ACLU. I've been clear on what I support and why.
It isn't an atheist organization and Christians should oppose immoral conduct, not the right to debate it in the public square. I for one am confident that Christian principle can prevail in honest competition.
That's another lie and one I've put to rest with more than one link demonstrating a large number of cases brought in support of conservative and Christian causes relating to their right. It's a shame that you can't conduct yourself honorably and fight for your myopic view upright, but there you are.
I'm not remotely shy about my beliefs or disposition. I've taken unpopular stands when I felt they were warranted and in keeping with my principles. I don't find anything inherently shameful about liberal or conservative thought, they simply don't define me. And neither do you.
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Originally Posted by aSeattleConserv
Kindly show me anywhere in the writings of the Founding Fathers where sexual deviants "free speech rights" should be protected.
So if a guy stands up in the middle of a busy theater (Shyster school 101, first day of class, right?) and yells "FIRE! FIRE!" when there really isn't one, his "content" is permissible because he's "exercising" his freedom of speech?
I'm sorry counselor, but the Founding Fathers weren't of the ACLU mindset which is "do your own thing". With freedom came responsibility, the responsibility of being a Christian and the principles that went along with it.
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To save you the time, you won't find it anywhere. What you will find however is legislation against homosexuality, and of course the pedophile lifestyle that so often goes along with it.
I knew from past experience that this would go here. So in essence, since one thing was bad (slavery), the rest should be null and void?
Are you implying that we should revoke the Bill of Rights since during the Founding Fathers days people owned slaves?
If you agree, there is a high paid position waiting for you at the offices of the American Civil Liberties Union.
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...I don't consider anyone that defends an organization that represents child molesters as "christian",
Now when you say that distributing child pornography is lawful speech, are you talking about lawful in the eyes of God (the God you supposedly believe in), or in the eyes of the laws of the United States of America? To my knowledge, kiddy porn is illegal in both domains.
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nor do I see Planned Parenthood, another organization that Town Heretic's beloved ACLU represents, as "rational".
Turning a blind eye to the evidence presented about the ACLU only makes one wonder if you have a photo of their emblem above your bed.
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Christians don't defend an atheist organization that was founded by communists,
I've presented evidence that the ACLU was found by atheistic communists, and to this day they haven't denounced their founders.
Oh, so this is some kind of competitive game with you? Tell the MILLIONS of unborn babies that have been MURDERED in the womb because the ACLU has defended Planned Parenthood that is only a "competition" and nothing more.
You disgust me, but then fake christians are no different than their atheist allies.
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whose sole intent is to destroy the Christian based Constitutional Republic
And I've shown that because evil on occasion does something that could be construed as "good", that evil still is evil.
Originally Posted by aSeattleConserv
Kindly show me anywhere in the writings of the Founding Fathers where sexual deviants "free speech rights" should be protected.
So if a guy stands up in the middle of a busy theater (Shyster school 101, first day of class, right?) and yells "FIRE! FIRE!" when there really isn't one, his "content" is permissible because he's "exercising" his freedom of speech?
I'm sorry counselor, but the Founding Fathers weren't of the ACLU mindset which is "do your own thing". With freedom came responsibility, the responsibility of being a Christian and the principles that went along with it.
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To save you the time, you won't find it anywhere. What you will find however is legislation against homosexuality, and of course the pedophile lifestyle that so often goes along with it.
I knew from past experience that this would go here. So in essence, since one thing was bad (slavery), the rest should be null and void?
Are you implying that we should revoke the Bill of Rights since during the Founding Fathers days people owned slaves?
If you agree, there is a high paid position waiting for you at the offices of the American Civil Liberties Union.
Quote:
...I don't consider anyone that defends an organization that represents child molesters as "christian",
Now when you say that distributing child pornography is lawful speech, are you talking about lawful in the eyes of God (the God you supposedly believe in), or in the eyes of the laws of the United States of America? To my knowledge, kiddy porn is illegal in both domains.
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nor do I see Planned Parenthood, another organization that Town Heretic's beloved ACLU represents, as "rational".
Turning a blind eye to the evidence presented about the ACLU only makes one wonder if you have a photo of their emblem above your bed.
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Christians don't defend an atheist organization that was founded by communists,
I've presented evidence that the ACLU was found by atheistic communists, and to this day they haven't denounced their founders.
Oh, so this is some kind of competitive game with you? Tell the MILLIONS of unborn babies that have been MURDERED in the womb because the ACLU has defended Planned Parenthood that is only a "competition" and nothing more.
You disgust me, but then fake christians are no different than their atheist allies.
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whose sole intent is to destroy the Christian based Constitutional Republic
And I've shown that because evil on occasion does something that could be construed as "good", that evil still is evil.
No. I'd go into the details pertaining to the absence of a right to defraud or incite to violence, but your treatment doesn't warrant the gesture.
No, that would be "Speak your own mind" and the founding fathers were sufficiently on board with that notion to protect it.
No man has a legal duty to be a Christian. Every man has a moral duty to follow his conscience. Another distinction you miss.
No. Not even in the zip code.
Which it isn't and I didn't. You're embarrassing yourself. Well, had you an understanding of shame that would be the case.
You mean your claims about its founders? About as controlling, if true, as suggesting I should move for the abolition of our current government because its founders sanctioned slavery at our inception.
Your contemplation of my bed is your problem.
Of course not. It's called rhetoric and I'm voicing confidence in the prevailing of Christian principles in the market place of ideas. And using "market place" doesn't mean I think they're for sale, by way of further example. But you know that. You only pretend not to so you can vent that faux outrage of yours and rend garments.
I'll just have to live with the disappointment.
lain:There really isn't anything you aren't prepared to say, is there? You aren't restrained by reason, decency, maturity, honesty, temperance, or the least understanding of honor. You're a one note joke applied mindlessly across a slew of topics, evidencing neither wit nor comprehension. I can't decide whether you should be more properly the object of pity or shunning...it's a close contest (and, again, no game).
I'm not an atheist myself, but I don't think that atheists "hate" the word of God. The premise of this statement is questionable.
What is the word of God? The Bible? How do we know that this is "the word of God"?
What Christian fundamentalists call the word of God also includes some blatantly homophobic statements, and I refuse to accept the idea that God is in any way a homophobe. And if he is,I want nothing to do with him. A loving God does not hate gay people and condemn them to eternal hellfire for something as trivial as being gay,and something which contrary to the ignorant beliefs of homophobes, is NOT a choice.
The supposed word of God also includes many other very nasty and intolerant things.
Christian fundamentalists are taught blind acceptance of a rigid and dogmatic interpretation of the Bible, and thus their minds are closed and many become ideologues and intolerant .
Atheists don't hate God and don't hate his supposed word. They only condemn the narrow-midedness,intolerance and self-righteousness of
Christian fundamentalists.
What is the word of God? The Bible? How do we know that this is "the word of God"?
What Christian fundamentalists call the word of God also includes some blatantly homophobic statements, and I refuse to accept the idea that God is in any way a homophobe. And if he is,I want nothing to do with him. A loving God does not hate gay people and condemn them to eternal hellfire for something as trivial as being gay,and something which contrary to the ignorant beliefs of homophobes, is NOT a choice.
The supposed word of God also includes many other very nasty and intolerant things.
Christian fundamentalists are taught blind acceptance of a rigid and dogmatic interpretation of the Bible, and thus their minds are closed and many become ideologues and intolerant .
Atheists don't hate God and don't hate his supposed word. They only condemn the narrow-midedness,intolerance and self-righteousness of
Christian fundamentalists.
I see that you claim to be of the Jewish faith, yet speak for things (abortion, homosexuality) that God condemns.
So you, like your liberal so-called Christian counterparts, practice the religion known as "ala carte Judaism"; you get to pick and choose which of God's laws you want to abide by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aSeattleConserv
...So if a guy stands up in the middle of a busy theater (Shyster school 101, first day of class, right?) and yells "FIRE! FIRE!" when there really isn't one, his "content" is permissible because he's "exercising" his freedom of speech?
Exactly. Certain lifestyles and speech are fraudulent. Most of the things that the Chrisitan HATING ACLU defends are just that.
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I'm sorry counselor, but the Founding Fathers weren't of the ACLU mindset which is "do your own thing".
Ok then, show me where the Founding Fathers "protected" speech from child molesters and baby killers. I've presented my evidence, now you present yours.
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With freedom came responsibility, the responsibility of being a Christian and the principles that went along with it.
You're reminding me more of the Libertarian Newman every day.
(A Christian's answer would have been "Man has a moral duty to follow the Laws of God.").
You're partially correct there. No man had a legal duty to be Christinan, BUT, our country was founded upon Christian principles and laws, not atheism, paganism or any other false religion. In other words, your love for homosexuality and abortion wasn't tolerated back then counselor.
What's that you say, you're not an advocate of homosexuality and abortion? How about for ONCE you speak out against them?
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Turning a blind eye to the evidence presented about the ACLU
Only people like you and your atheist shysters at the ACLU would make such a comparision.
I've shown that the Founding Fathers were for the most part EXTREMELY religious Christian men, your "founders" were members of the Communist Party USA, and various other communist "fronts".
My Founding Fathers wrote something that would eventually end slavery, your godless atheist "founders" continue to enslave our society, and have no intention of ever ending it.
Originally Posted by aSeattleConserv
...So if a guy stands up in the middle of a busy theater (Shyster school 101, first day of class, right?) and yells "FIRE! FIRE!" when there really isn't one, his "content" is permissible because he's "exercising" his freedom of speech?
Exactly. Certain lifestyles and speech are fraudulent. Most of the things that the Chrisitan HATING ACLU defends are just that.
Quote:
I'm sorry counselor, but the Founding Fathers weren't of the ACLU mindset which is "do your own thing".
Ok then, show me where the Founding Fathers "protected" speech from child molesters and baby killers. I've presented my evidence, now you present yours.
Quote:
With freedom came responsibility, the responsibility of being a Christian and the principles that went along with it.
You're reminding me more of the Libertarian Newman every day.
(A Christian's answer would have been "Man has a moral duty to follow the Laws of God.").
You're partially correct there. No man had a legal duty to be Christinan, BUT, our country was founded upon Christian principles and laws, not atheism, paganism or any other false religion. In other words, your love for homosexuality and abortion wasn't tolerated back then counselor.
What's that you say, you're not an advocate of homosexuality and abortion? How about for ONCE you speak out against them?
Quote:
Turning a blind eye to the evidence presented about the ACLU
Only people like you and your atheist shysters at the ACLU would make such a comparision.
I've shown that the Founding Fathers were for the most part EXTREMELY religious Christian men, your "founders" were members of the Communist Party USA, and various other communist "fronts".
My Founding Fathers wrote something that would eventually end slavery, your godless atheist "founders" continue to enslave our society, and have no intention of ever ending it.
No, again. What the ACLU defends is lawful speech, not the content of that speech. So both the Christian and the atheist, the Klansman and the Rainbow Coalition member, the flag waver and the flag burner, will find an ally against any who attempt to infringe upon that right.
Read the Constitution.
No, that's your notion of what a Christian response would be. I understand you confuse the two. It's the same impulse that allows a man to consider the bomb strapped to his chest a good and righteous thing.
Then I'd be completely correct.
Which also isn't an argument I've made.
lain: Christians, as I've said more than once, were nearly exclusively the founders of our government. But they didn't found a theocracy or intend one. Quite the contrary. They valued each man's right to find his own faith. Well, at least enough did to protect that right.Leaving off the laughable beginning where you only succeed in doing what I'd have thought by this point an impossibility--making yourself look even less informed and more foolish--neither were legal, though both were undoubtedly present, as was the legal and protected institution of slavery.
I don't have to, given that no one who pays the least attention would be confused on the points.
I actually made part of my reputation advancing arguments against abortion...a few POTDs, as I recall, were handed over by Knight on that account. I've been over that before with you...As for homosexuality, it's a sin. I've never been unclear about that either. As with so much, you are speaking about matters without understanding them, declaring a conclusion or inferring a want that is mostly an illustration of your ignorance and not much else.
No, anyone with sufficient reason would understand and adopt it. It paints the absurdity of your position into its crazy little corner.
I never argued that most of the founders weren't religious men, that they weren't Christian men. Some like Jefferson weren't, but they were doubtless fewer in number. And on the whole, Christian and not, they condoned a great moral evil for all that. So, does this error undo their larger work? Of course not. And does the political affiliation of my surgeon steady his hand? Of course it doesn't.
They wrote a document that allowed for it, not one that accomplished it. A small, but important difference and not one I'm confused about.
They're neither mine, nor my founders, you dissembling parrot you.
You're the only one arguing for slavery here in any era.
And if we don't do the same things?
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
This verse is telling us that you cannot judge someone as being without God because of their behavior, because everyone falls short. We can and should judge what people believe and say.
That is for those who are under the law. I am not under the law, therefore I cannot transgress the law. And seeing as how it is made clear that we are not to keep the whole law as the Body of Christ, this verse does not apply. I am not guilty.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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