toldailytopic: How do you feel about building a mosque at ground zero?

[Town Heretic]

That smarts! Neville Chamberlain?
I respectfully suggest that you are not talking apples and apples here.

With real respect, BB, you are talking about appeasing an unreasonable sentiment and compromising a right to accomplish it. Who is asking and what the property is, a mosque or part of Europe, strikes me as the immaterial part.

:e4e:

 

[Town Heretic]

Donald Trump tried... they insulted him.

I'd think the first insult is the suggestion they abandon the plans to a house of worship for no reason that isn't reasonable or reasoned.

The Muslims have set up this controversial situation ...

Rather, this mindset "the Muslims" has accomplished it. All these particular worshipers want is to go forward with their plans in peace, same as a Jew, or a Protestant, or a Catholic would.

now they persist with their disregard of our citizens ...

They aren't a part of us? See: that earlier problem.

and they even want to blame us for our heart felt feelings of not wanting them to build this.

No, they're pointing out that the feelings of some are neither rational nor should be honored simple because they are earnestly felt. After all, an atheist who hates the notion of God is earnest and hear felt. Do you honor his ideas about sensitivity?

Let's, at least, not prove them to be correct about our stupidity and cowardness... by humbly bowing to their will.

Because it's really, really courageous to stand in the mob and shout down a comparative handful of people who are absolutely within the right.

They may build it under our laws for freedom of religion,

No, dad-blasted! The mosque will be built by us under our laws. They aren't outside of them and this isn't a gift we're giving anyone. It's the gift we were all given by our founders and soldiers, teachers, politicians, and citizens who fought one battle or another to preserve them.

but they prove to the world what evil is in their hearts.

By building a house dedicated to God...by ignoring an unreasoning prejudice...

Let their project stand in our sight for the reminder of their purposes among us.

That you think and feel this way tells me the terrorists who died in 9/11 and their ilk should rejoice. They did and continue to do more damage than they could have hoped for.

 

[Ps82]

Hi Town Heretic,
Thanks for responding to my post.
You wrote:

I'd think the first insult is the suggestion they abandon the plans to a house of worship for no reason that isn't reasonable or reasoned.

I disagree. The Muslims suggested their plan, people sincerely expressed their honest heart felt reasons for not wanting it. They rudely decided to disregard the wishes of those who were hurt during 911... for their own gratification.

I believe they have tried to play down the issue that it will be a place of worship ... but rather some sort of community center. I wonder if Christians and Jews will be welcomed to recreated there??? All lovey dovey ... fellow shipping and mending our ways with human kindness and understanding??? hum....??? We'll see I guess.

You wrote:

Rather, this mindset "the Muslims" has accomplished it. All these particular worshipers want is to go forward with their plans in peace, same as a Jew, or a Protestant, or a Catholic would.

The faith of the Jewish and Protestant religions did not participate in the 911 tragedy. Would the Muslims want us or allow the Jews and Christians to build a temple on the Mount next to the Dome of the Rock ... in order to show that we want to demonstrate our willingness to mend our relationships with them???

You wrote:

They aren't a part of us? See: that earlier problem.

So? They still don't respect us or regard our heartfelt wishes.

You wrote:

No, they're pointing out that the feelings of some are neither rational nor should be honored simple because they are earnestly felt. After all, an atheist who hates the notion of God is earnest and hear felt. Do you honor his ideas about sensitivity?

Yes, atheists and Muslims may be trying to point something out for sure, and they may surely being trying to change everyone else ... but I don't accept the idea that change should be rammed down the throats of others. Atheists can go to "where ever" they plan to go one day ... I freely accept their wishes or rejection of the good news that Christians have ... Muslims can go "where ever" they choose to go one day. I certainly won't suggest chopping off their heads or stoning them to get them to change... but when it comes to human respect of those different from them ... They are certainly not sensitive nor as tolerant as Christians have been in the past.

You wrote:

Because it's really, really courageous to stand in the mob and shout down a comparative handful of people who are absolutely within the right.

So you say. I don't stand in mobs and shout down people ... but I guess I would - if I felt they were blatantly dangerous.

You wrote:

No, dad-blasted! The mosque will be built by us under our laws. They aren't outside of them and this isn't a gift we're giving anyone. It's the gift we were all given by our founders and soldiers, teachers, politicians, and citizens who fought one battle or another to preserve them. By building a house dedicated to God...by ignoring an unreasoning prejudice...

And it will remind me of our blatant enemy within our midst, who has no regard for our citizens. I hope they invite you to come to recreate in their community center if it is built. Maybe I'll even stop by the next time I'm in New York and freely walk in. I'd love to freely walk all around inside.

You wrote:

That you think and feel this way tells me the terrorists who died in 9/11 and their ilk should rejoice. They did and continue to do more damage than they could have hoped for.

You wonder that, but I wonder exactly where are they rejoicing? Will they be rejoicing right under our noses?
I've have simply suggested that they should freely and humanely respect the feelings of those affected by 911, but you've just suggested that they should rejoice at violence. That lets me know your heart... but then I've seen your heart on other threads as well.

See you around.

 

[Nick_A]

How do I feel about the mosque at ground zero?

I think it reveals the height of the insensitivity and rudeness to which the Muslims will blatantly go. It reveals their regard for our intellect and common sense and shows their disregard for our heartfelt losses.

I think it was personally foolish for the pastor in Florida to threaten to burn the Koran ... but he has, in his own way, revealed the extreme two-face-ness of the Muslims. I pray for his safety from these evil out of control human beings, who have proclaimed to be enemies of Christ and his people.

Because, yes, it is wrong for one faith to burn the holy book of another religion ... but it is just as wrong (and in the same way) for people to build a religious place in honor of the faith of the enemies who killed thousands of our citizens on the site of 911.

Their wanting to do this has rekindled my awareness of what motivates the hearts of Muslims... regarding our people.

What ever happens with their building plans ... it is a divisive project that will NOT lead to any peace between our peoples.

How does it feel to be both right and politically incorrect at the same time?

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

You have a sense of moral decency and realize that it is the insensitive thing to do. But in modern times the increasing secular agenda is making the Constitution inadequate as John Adams suggests. We are changing into a country demanding rights without any appreciation for our moral obligations that preserve these rights in the cause of freedom.

It is curious how the majority sense that something is wrong and that they are losing something valuable. Yet the ruling leftist educated elite is completely oblivious of it and instead totally self absorbed with their imagined brilliance.

This is a wake-up call but the question is if enough can awaken to preserve the essence of America which is something uniquely special.

The first step of course is to begin voting the bums out in November.

 

[Ps82]

How does it feel to be both right and politically incorrect at the same time?

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

You have a sense of moral decency and realize that it is the insensitive thing to do. But in modern times the increasing secular agenda is making the Constitution inadequate as John Adams suggests. We are changing into a country demanding rights without any appreciation for our moral obligations that preserve these rights in the cause of freedom.

It is curious how the majority sense that something is wrong and that they are losing something valuable. Yet the ruling leftist educated elite is completely oblivious of it and instead totally self absorbed with their imagined brilliance.

This is a wake-up call but the question is if enough can awaken to preserve the essence of America which is something uniquely special.

The first step of course is to begin voting the bums out in November.

I agree totally. Thanks for your remarks.

II Corinthians 10:4-5 KJV
Here is what Paul said this about our warfare against those who think they are more wise than the ONE true God.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God for the pulling down of strong holds. For cast down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and for bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Pray ... and speak out ... for their is a reward from God for those who speak out publicly.

 

[Town Heretic]

...The Muslims suggested their plan, people sincerely expressed their honest heart felt reasons for not wanting it.

What reasons? All I've heard is the rather oddly narrowed sensitivity posit. And I've responded to why I find that utterly under thought and nothing anyone should support having sufficiently considered it.

They rudely decided to disregard the wishes of those who were hurt during 911... for their own gratification.

Well, no. Some of the hurt and killed were Muslim. But that's no better reason to build a mosque than the loss of non Muslim lives is to stop it. And going forward with their plans absent more than an unjustifiable attempt to paint those who objected to the misuse of Islam as somehow bearing the taint of those who were not among their number strikes me as reasonable. Capitulating to those who would use that broad brush would be the worse offense.

I believe they have tried to play down the issue that it will be a place of worship ... but rather some sort of community center. I wonder if Christians and Jews will be welcomed to recreated there???

I don't know. I don't know that they'd be any more likely to want to do so than I would be found hanging out in a Kingdom Hall. But I don't think they were playing down the worship element so much as they were attempting to demonstrate a larger, more inclusive purpose and a recognition of the horror that transpired a few blocks away.

The faith of the Jewish and Protestant religions did not participate in the 911 tragedy.

Would you like a little ethnic cleansing to go with that? Should I remind you how easy that broad brush is to apply? The faith of Islam,as recognized by the vast majority of the billion and a half adherents, is a peaceful one. Attempting to connect the fanatics of any ideology or religious impulse to more than their own grotesque desires is a mistake.

Would the Muslims want us or allow the Jews and Christians to build a temple on the Mount next to the Dome of the Rock ... in order to show that we want to demonstrate our willingness to mend our relationships with them???

Not a parallel. Ask if the Muslims in New York have a problem with a temple or a church being built next door. What foreigners and foreign governments will or won't allow is a separate issue UNLESS you mistake Islam as one mindset--a mistake you wouldn't make concerning your own faith. Or do you consider yourself in accord with every Catholic or Protestant thought on the exercise of faith?

So? They still don't respect us or regard our heartfelt wishes.

You don't speak for US. You may speak for a majority of impassioned people with their heads screwed on wrong, absent an argument I've yet to hear, but that's something else. You'd said:

now they persist with their disregard of our citizens ...

That's wrong. American Muslims are part of that citizenry. So it's more accurate to say WE don't all agree on the issue. And heartfelt error is no more respectable because it's sincere, which I believe I raised earlier.

Yes, atheists and Muslims may be trying to point something out for sure, and they may surely being trying to change everyone else ... but I don't accept the idea that change should be rammed down the throats of others.

Then stop suggesting a different set of rules for these Muslims than we have for, say, the 9th Ward of New Orleans, where some Christian pastors proclaimed God's wrath had fallen, or the areas where Christians bombed abortion clinics. If you aren't out demonstrating or protesting Christian churches in or near those parts you shouldn't be holding that line now.

... when it comes to human respect of those different from them ... They are certainly not sensitive nor tolerant as Christians have been in the past.

Depends on when you look. There are periods of history when either religion was more or less tolerant. Europe hemorrhaged blood during the Reformation and counter, Catholic and Protestant going at it like the Hindus and Muslims in latter day India. And the Muslim reign in old Jerusalem was far more lenient and less bloody than the Christian liberation. These days? The secular, free West does a better job than the theocratic states it frequently wrestles with and those no longer tend to be Christian, though they were during the first couple of World Wars. But that says less about our faith than how we've learned to restrain its darker misuse by some. And as I mentioned, we learned that the long and bloody way.

So you say. I don't stand in mobs and shout down people ... but I guess I would - if I felt they were blatantly dangerous.

I was responding to your particular use of the word courage and simply noting that opposition to the mosque doesn't require any. It only requires you to raise your voice with a large number of similar voices. And how you feel about it interests me less than why you do and what you can present to evidence its reasonableness.

I grew up around people who were earnest and fervent in their support of fairly horrific ideas to very ill effect. Having seen what that does and how easily it insinuates itself into the social fabric, I'm less than enamored of emotionalism as a central theme of good government. That way lies madness.

And it will remind me of our blatant enemy in our midst, who has no regard for our citizens.

Said, at one time, a majority of Americans about the Catholic minority and many wondered if one could be elected President given the strength of that suspicion. I'd say it's important to distinguish between a fanatical, dangerous group and the rest of Islam, the majority of Islamic practice and belief.

...I've just suggested that they should freely respect the feelings of those affected by 911, but you've just suggested that they should rejoice at violence.

I've done nothing of the sort. Stop feeling your way through an argument and use the brain God gave you for something more than a word processor. :mmph: It's your insistence on conflating the one group with the other, absent any reason to do so, that causes this sort of insulting nonsense to escape your noggin. Do better. It's your willingness to do so that I set out should be at the heart of the actual terrorist supporters delight. Then they can say, "See? It is us against them, just as we told you."

That lets me know your heart...but then I've seen your heart on other threads as well.

For shame, Ps. You've never said boo to me in the negative on an issue of character and now because I do what a friend should do and tell you when you're acting like a pack mule and running with a thought that's beneath you you sink to this?

Shame on you. Else, I've been called a N-lover in my day too. I took it well enough when I considered the thinking on the other side of it. And I didn't enter into this discourse with the notion that I'd be winning back pats. Sorry you felt the need to try that.

See you around.

If this is the beginning and end of it, you've yet to see me at all. But I've known this sort of thinking all my life and what it leads otherwise decent people to do and say. You should reconsider it.

 

[Ps82]

Town Heritic,
I'm glad that you find my post so interesting. Thanks for reading and responding to it.

 

[Town Heretic]

Town Heritic,
I'm glad that you find my post so interesting. Thanks for reading and responding to it.

See, that would be a lot more convincing without the "heart" nonsense you tacked on at the end of your last. And I wouldn't say it was a matter of finding it interesting so much as finding it emblematic of what I object to in this ongoing. My hope is that essentially decent people, such as yourself, who mean to be on the right side of the issue will one day come to the same shocked realization that the Greatest Generation did in relation to an emotional, knee-jerk response that interred Americans of Japanese descent. That is, I respond to put the counter in your mind and cross my fingers that eventually you'll look at the problem with less jaundiced eyes and have that old "what was I thinking?" moment.

:e4e:

 

[bybee]

Well

Well

See, that would be a lot more convincing without the "heart" nonsense you tacked on at the end of your last. And I wouldn't say it was a matter of finding it interesting so much as finding it emblematic of what I object to in this ongoing. My hope is that essentially decent people, such as yourself, who mean to be on the right side of the issue will one day come to the same shocked realization that the Greatest Generation did in relation to an emotional, knee-jerk response that interred Americans of Japanese descent. That is, I respond to put the counter in your mind and cross my fingers that eventually you'll look at the problem with less jaundiced eyes and have that old "what was I thinking?" moment.

:e4e:

Perhaps, in the
fulness of time, it shall be you, looking at the denoument with
incredulous eyes and saying "What did I miss?".
That is also a possibility.

 

[Town Heretic]

Perhaps, in the
fulness of time, it shall be you, looking at the denoument with
incredulous eyes and saying "What did I miss?".
That is also a possibility.

No, bybee, because the principle at work here remains, no matter if the people of this mosque abuse it at some point or not.

Should the IRA brand Catholicism? Should we suspect every black man we see because of the wildly disproportionate representation in prison populations? Is it ever acceptable to broad brush the greater number for the acts of the few? I don't think so. I think I'm responsible for my actions, not yours. Even if we worship the same God.

 

[Nick_A]

I remember when I was reading Simone Weil's only book: "The Need for Roots." It was written when she was dying of TB as her contribution for rebuilding France after Hitler's devastation.

I was struck by the two types of patriotism she mentioned. The first is a false patriotism that assumes our personality and our country will exist forever from strength.

True patriotism in contrast comes from the admission of affliction. It furthers humility and valuing what is realistically important. The objects of love become more precious for example.

The elite do not appreciate true patriotism and only understand false patriotism. That is why it doesn't value life realistically but only slogans. It cannot feel what the regular person does that has directly endured 911. It cannot understand why people want to keep the area clear of these politics.

From the point of view of true patriotism, a country is like an extended community. If a member of a community had a juvenile delinquent that caused great harm to another family, they would offer to make amends because it was a member of their family. They wouldn't say that our son did it but we didn't. No, they would just seek to make matters better.

It is the same thing with the Ground Zero mosque. A member of the great family of Muslims is called "terrorists." These terrorists committed a crime against humanity. Rather than seeking to honor the sufferings these terrorists caused by condemning these actions and offering to contribute to the memorial, the developers insist on constructing a provocative and insensitive construction at ground zero that only serves to increase their suffering.

The objection it inspires is really true patriotism and the recognition of how fragile life is. We must value it rather then use such crimes against humanity for political advantage.

Some understand and some don't. I am proud to stand with those that understand and seek to keep Ground Zero free of political manipulations as with the Sharia mosque.

 

[BabyChristian]

I'd think the first insult is the suggestion they abandon the plans to a house of worship for no reason that isn't reasonable or reasoned.

I think it's an insult to want to take God off of the dollar but I'll bet it will happen some day which is akin to not allowing Muslims to build Mosques and is what is happening all of Europe and we seem to follow their lead often.

Rather, this mindset "the Muslims" has accomplished it. All these particular worshipers want is to go forward with their plans in peace, same as a Jew, or a Protestant, or a Catholic would.

How do you know this? Did you read an Arab book where it was stated 3 times. The Koran, you know says to keep the peace and then it says to kill infidels and it is written in the Koran that the last thing it states is what will be followed. I found that on a Muslim site which I know I can't find again, it was a while back. They are allowed to lie 3 times to infidels to get what they want.

They aren't a part of us? See: that earlier problem.

You're correct and they don't even attempt to mesh in, which I've recently read that the home-Muslims are at this time doing most terrorist acts recently.

No, they're pointing out that the feelings of some are neither rational nor should be honored simple because they are earnestly felt. After all, an atheist who hates the notion of God is earnest and hear felt. Do you honor his ideas about sensitivity?

Not when killing is involved. God says not to kill, Allah doesn't. It's murder not killing that the Bible says is bad, not so with Muslims.

Because it's really, really courageous to stand in the mob and shout down a comparative handful of people who are absolutely within the right.

OMGARSH, the way Muslims treat their women, their women can't work, the women get beaten and the men are allowed 4 wives and on and on, you think this is men's right? I guess if you have no compassion then you're correct.

No, dad-blasted! The mosque will be built by us under our laws. They aren't outside of them and this isn't a gift we're giving anyone. It's the gift we were all given by our founders and soldiers, teachers, politicians, and citizens who fought one battle or another to preserve them.

Our founders were almost all Christians too, even the ones I've that weren't quoted the Bible often because it's a good book.

By building a house dedicated to God...by ignoring an unreasoning prejudice...

Allah is not God, if he he sure wrote a different book the the ONLY God.

That you think and feel this way tells me the terrorists who died in 9/11 and their ilk should rejoice. They did and continue to do more damage than they could have hoped for.

You're right they did do more damage than they expected.

I seriously doubt those terrorists weren't. No their ilk didn't rejoice about the terrorists, they were Muslims but maybe they did rejoice after being martyrs and getting 72 brown-eyed virgins.

Most American choose one wife, Muslims can have 4.

 

[bybee]

Well

Well

No, bybee, because the principle at work here remains, no matter if the people of this mosque abuse it at some point or not.

Should the IRA brand Catholicism? Should we suspect every black man we see because of the wildly disproportionate representation in prison populations? Is it ever acceptable to broad brush the greater number for the acts of the few? I don't think so. I think I'm responsible for my actions, not yours. Even if we worship the same God.

I have not challenged the principle. I have suggested that the Mosque builders look at a bigger picture and consider ramifications.
He, the Spiritual leader, is responsible for his actions, is he not?
Observing the letter of the law often rapes the spirit of the law.

 

[bybee]

Okay

Okay

With real respect, BB, you are talking about appeasing an unreasonable sentiment and compromising a right to accomplish it. Who is asking and what the property is, a mosque or part of Europe, strikes me as the immaterial part.

:e4e:

Again with respect, if you were Solomon would you cut the baby in half?

 

[BabyChristian]

I have edited this so you understand the writing of mine is blue.

I know how to do

and

but it didn't work for some reason.

See my sig.

 

[BabyChristian]

Dang double post. What's going on here?

 

[Ps82]

Nick A and anyone interested:
Here is a suggestion - only for those interested.

Read II Corinthians 10-13. Take a look at how Paul became frustrated with men who had come among the church members as false teachers, and who had started trouble among the people - and who were attempting to lift themselves up in the eyes of the people . Take a look at how Paul planned to react to the obstinate MIS-behaviors of these misfits and problem causers.

II Cor. 10:1 KJV
I beg you (Corinthians) that when I am present (with you for the third time) I will not NEED to be bold with the confidence by which I plan (now) to challenge certain people who think we are walking in a fleshly way.
II Cor. 10:3 KJV For, although, we are waking in the flesh (at this time like any other mortal human being), we DO NOT WAGE WAR IN A FLESHLY WAY.

II Cor. 10:11 KJV Let such an one (such people) think this: that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
II Cor. 10:12 KJV For we (believers in Christ) dare not make ourselves of the number (IOW among those), or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves are not wise.
II Cor. 11:12 KJV But what I do (in my letters), that I will do (in person), that I may cut off occasion (the opportunity) from them which desire occasion: wherein they (may) glory, (so that) they may be found even as we.
II Cor. 11:13 KJV For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
II Cor. 11:15 KJV Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the minister of righteousness (IOW, they profess themselves to be good); whose end shall be according to their works.
II Cor. 11:14 KJV And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I know that these Muslims planning this mosque in defiance of the request from hurting people ... don't profess to be God's apostles ... but they do want to lift themselves up to being good and right - when they are wrong. I don't think Paul would have been very 'tolerant' of their meddling defiance.

 

[BabyChristian]

Let's not forget that other Americans were killed by these few terrorists that they call the radical few.

I already mentioned that many Muslims were jumping for joy when the WTCs went down. American Muslims.

I really don't believe there's few terrorists, I think wives keep their mouths shut (or they are killed about their martyr husband's, their plans, foiled or accomplished. And I'm positive the terrorists keep their mouths shut like the 9/11 terrorists.......... So who's going to admit to it? Someone stupid?

I don't believe this article mentions (I think it was in Munich, Germany) the Jews that were kidnapped at the Olympics.

It also doesn't mention all of the Jews that have been killed by those few the terrorists

On October 12, 2000, USS Cole, under the command of Commander Kirk Lippold, set in to Aden harbor for a routine fuel stop. Cole completed mooring at 09:30. Refueling started at 10:30. Around 11:18 local time (08:18 UTC), a small craft approached the port side of the destroyer, and an explosion occurred, putting a 40-by-40-foot gash in the ship's port side according to the memorial plate to those who lost their lives. According to former CIA intelligence officer Robert Finke, the blast appeared to be caused by explosives molded into a shaped charge against the hull of the boat.[1] It was speculated at the time that over 1,000 pounds of explosive were used.[2] The blast hit the ship's galley, where crew were lining up for lunch.[3] The crew fought flooding in the engineering spaces and had the damage under control by the evening. Divers inspected the hull and determined the keel was not damaged.

Seventeen sailors were killed and thirty-nine others were injured in the blast. The injured sailors were taken to the United States Army's Landstuhl Regional Medical Center near Ramstein, Germany and later, back to the United States. The attack was the deadliest against a U.S. Naval vessel since the Iraqi attack on the USS Stark (FFG-31) on May 17, 1987.

The asymmetric warfare attack was organized and directed by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda terrorist organization.[4][5][6][7] In June 2001, an al-Qaeda recruitment video featuring bin Laden boasted about the attack and encouraged similar attacks.[8][9]

Al-Qaeda had previously attempted a similar but less publicized attack on the US Navy destroyer USS The Sullivans (DDG-68) while in port at Aden, Yemen on January 3, 2000 as a part of the 2000 millennium attack plots. The plan was to load a boat full of explosives and explode near The Sullivans. However the boat was so overladen that it sank, forcing the attack to be abandoned. [10][11]

Planning for the attack was discussed at the Kuala Lumpur al-Qaeda Summit shortly after the attempt, which was held from January 5 to January 8, 2000. Along with other plotters, it was attended by future September 11 hijacker Khalid al-Mihdhar, who then traveled to San Diego where he established a close relationship with "9/11 imam" Anwar al-Awlaki, who was later linked to numerous plots and attacks, including the Fort Hood shootings and the "underwear bomber" of 2009 and targeted by the US as a terrorist threat. On June 10, 2000, Mihdhar left San Diego to visit his wife in Yemen at a house also used as a communications hub for Al Queda.[12][13][14] After the bombing, Yemeni Prime Minister Abdul Karim al-Iryani reported that Mihdhar had been one of the key planners of the attack and had been in the country at the time of the attacks.[15] He would later return to the US to participate in 9/11 on American Airlines Flight 77, which flew into the Pentagon, killing 184 victims.

Why are you liberals so dense as to think that we all just have to be nice and they won't kill us? Obama screwed up and tried to be nice and it was rejected by Muslims.

It shows what I read in the Arab Mind, they save face at all costs and and they think kindness from an American is a weakness.

Yes Rafael Patai is Jewish and writes books about cultures, Arab and Jewish cultures.

Here's a few book reviews about what Patai writes:

Product Description
ONE OF THE GREAT LANDMARKS OF CULTURAL STUDIES
First published in 1973, revised in 1983, and now updated with new demographic information about the Arab world, The Arab Mind takes readers on a journey through the societies and peoples of a complex and volatile region. This sensitive study explores the historical origins of Arab nationalism, the distinctive rhetorical style of Arabic speakers and its effect on politics, traditional attitudes toward child-rearing practices, the status of women, the beauty of Arabic literature, and much more.

MORE RELEVANT NOW THAN EVER
Since September 11, the book s lessons have been misconstrued by some but have proven indispensable to those trying to truly understand the roots of the major political conflicts of our time. Patai s sympathetic but critical depiction of Arab culture explores the continuing role of the Bedouin values of honor and courage in modern Arab culture, inter-Arab conflict and the aspiration toward unity, and how anti-Western attitudes conflated with anti-modernization have led to stagnation in much of the Arab world.

DRAWS ON A LIFETIME OF EXPERTISE
Patai, a prominent anthropologist and historian, drew on both his research and his personal experience to produce this indispensable work in the field of Middle Eastern studies. With an updated foreword by Norvell B. DeAtkine, former director of Middle East Studies at the JFK Special Warfare School, The Arab Mind remains a relevant and crucial masterpiece of scholarship for anyone seeking to understand this multifaceted culture today.

Of course there are liberals that didn't much like the book but many more did.

55 Reviews
5 star:
(23)
4 star:
(11)
3 star:
(4)
2 star:
(1)
1 star:
(16)

Geraldo Rivera just stated there are Muslim demonstrations near the WTC.

Go figger. They want American rights but won't mesh into the American life. And I don't mean being sinful.

Are Americans allowed to live in Muslim lands? Well I certainly don't want to but they sure are moving here in droves. Why since we're so sinful to them? More money? Maybe they really want to sin like the WTC bombers did to trick everyone into thinking they weren't Muslims.

 

[Town Heretic]

Again with respect, if you were Solomon would you cut the baby in half?

You're going to have to spell out how you see that. All I'm seeing is the right of men to be presumed innocent of the misdeeds of others set against an ethnocentric suspicion and emotional broad brush in the case before us.

As I noted prior, Catholics built an edifice within sight of Hiroshima's ground zero without the then normally race/culture phobic Japanese people raising half the alarm. And here we have no more connection between the two groups than you and I share with Justin Carl Moose, the self described "Christian counterpart of Osama bin Laden".

:idunno:

...
Observing the letter of the law often rapes the spirit of the law.

Except I think what we have here is entirely a matter of that spirit. No one is debating the letter.

 

[Town Heretic]

Let's not forget that other Americans were killed by these few terrorists that they call the radical few.

One and a half billion Muslims. Fanatics are a tiny fraction of Islam.

I already mentioned that many Muslims were jumping for joy when the WTCs went down. American Muslims.

I'm sure some were. I've also heard Christian preachers saying some pretty shocking things about Americans deserving divine wrath following Katrina. There's enough crazy to go around, though there's a great deal of difference between lacking empathy and actually attempting to harm someone.

I really don't believe there's few terrorists,

One and a half billion. Your world would be burning if even a large percentage of the minority were that radical.

Why are you liberals so dense as to think that we all just have to be nice and they won't kill us?

I haven't heard a single liberal suggest that. Sounds more like a conservative putting words in the mouths of liberals so you can turn around and whack them for being what they aren't. lain:

Obama screwed up and tried to be nice and it was rejected by Muslims.

Well, no. He ran into the same reaction that any U.S. President would encounter from the radical element. But that's not who he was reaching out to. That said, reaching out with rhetoric is a waste of time if you don't alter your approach. Has he changed much from his predecessor? Beyond that rhetoric (and Bush wasn't really that hawkish in his) I don't see it. I'd bet the Islamic world doesn't either.

It shows what I read in the Arab Mind, they save face at all costs and and they think kindness from an American is a weakness.

Right now I'm more concerned with the Persian mindset. They really don't think very highly of their Arab neighbors. It's insulting to a Persian to be thought of or called an Arab.

Geraldo Rivera just stated there are Muslim demonstrations near the WTC.

You mean counter demonstrations? I'd bet so.

Go figger. They want American rights but won't mesh into the American life. And I don't mean being sinful.

I thought the right to protest treatment you feel is unjust was about as American as it gets.

Are Americans allowed to live in Muslim lands?

Sure, but that's not really what we're talking about here.

Well I certainly don't want to but they sure are moving here in droves.

Just like our forefathers.

Why since we're so sinful to them?

Well, aren't all non Christians sinful to us? And would that stop you from moving to America? I bet it wouldn't.

More money? Maybe they really want to sin like the WTC bombers did to trick everyone into thinking they weren't Muslims.

Or maybe they want to live here for the same reasons you do. Imagine that...