toldailytopic: Does your opinion about homosexuality change if the behavior turns out

[Ted L Glines]

I hold everyone to the same standard I hold myself to. If I can control my own urges (I've been a single mom since 1999 and haven't had a stream of men or women coming in and out of my bed.), why shouldn't I expect others to do the same? My only problem with homosexuals, in general, is that I would never know they were homosexual if they didn't either tell me or overtly act super feminine (men) or super butch (women). I wouldn't be able to discriminate against them if I didn't know. I don't make it a point to make sure everyone knows my sexual preference when I meet them on the street.

Ha! I can see me encountering someone on the street, "Hi, my name is Ted and I'm a heterosexual. How're ya doin'?" Sorta like the intro AA speech :cheers:

On the other hand, if you live in San Francisco, you would have no trouble knowing who was gay. They are pretty out front in the City by the Bay.

 

[Bradley D]

I believe it is a mental condition as outlined in the DSM-3. God would not create human beings with such genetics and then prounouce its behavior a sin. It is a chosen behavior. To say that homosexuals cannot change is denying the power of God.

 

[Tambora]

Your genetic makeup doesn't really have anything to do with doing what GOD says to do, or not doing what GOD says not to do.

The male foreskin is included in the genetic makeup, and yet GOD told them to remove it.

So, what you are born with 'genetically' does not factor into it.

 

[ragTagblues]

I have noticed that too. Many homosexuals where their lifestyle on their sleeve as if it is a fashion statement. :down:. If they didn't do that, they would be flying into all the flak that they do.

Yet walking down the street holding hands with your spouse is not construed as exactly this?

Your mistake here is that many homosexuals don't care enough what people think of them, because they are proud of who they are and happy with themselves . . . . which is more then can be said for a lot of heterosexuals .

It isn't seen as wearing a badge, it's just being normal for them, and why shouldn't they be? I'm allowed to walk down the street wearing biker boots, jeans, a leather jacket and a beard . . . . the biker image isn't exactly the best; but I can still wear it on my sleeve.

 

[Frank Ernest]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 16th, 2011 10:12 AM

toldailytopic: Does your opinion about homosexuality change if the behavior turns out to be genetic?

No. So far the genetic studies have gone really nowhere. Even the phrase "genetic-based behavior" grates on the nerves since it is oxymoronic. In essence, such efforts are an attempt to shift the blame for one's behavior to some vague statistically-derived cause.

 

[Persephone66]

Yet walking down the street holding hands with your spouse is not construed as exactly this?

Your mistake here is that many homosexuals don't care enough what people think of them, because they are proud of who they are and happy with themselves . . . . which is more then can be said for a lot of heterosexuals .

It isn't seen as wearing a badge, it's just being normal for them, and why shouldn't they be? I'm allowed to walk down the street wearing biker boots, jeans, a leather jacket and a beard . . . . the biker image isn't exactly the best; but I can still wear it on my sleeve.

At what point does it become wearing it on one's sleeve?

 

[ragTagblues]

At what point does it become wearing it on one's sleeve?

I think wearing it on your sleeve is a simple statement of being comfortable, that's how I interpret it anyway.

 

[Granite]

Only pointing out the improbability of your nightmare scenario :e4e:

The improbability of letting women vote was once in the realm of sci-fi as well.

I really wish these right-wing evangelical nuts hadn't sidetracked our nation for decades and actually allowed us to discuss issues of real, actual importance...but the evangelical obsession with sex just won't allow for that.

 

[oatmeal]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 16th, 2011 10:12 AM

toldailytopic: Does your opinion about homosexuality change if the behavior turns out to be genetic?

No, Scripture authored by God himself, calls it sin, it is sin.

God created the heavens and the earth, he created for man's well being, He did not create the evil perversions of it.

Homosexuality is an evil perversion of what God did in the Genesis 1 and 2 and all that God, He called "very good"

Homosexuality is very bad.

Sin, ie, the sin nature could be described as genetic, since it began with Adam and Eve's sin and has been carried on since then.

Genetic mutations caused by sin, are not an excuse for avoiding or violating God's truth and standards.

Why would anyone want to?

His blessings upon those who seek and find and love and obey him are incredible, way beyond our wildest dreams.

God's good to those who love him far outweighs the superficial glitter of this world. I Corinthians 2:9

oatmeal

 

[Granite]

This really boils down to how ingrained bigotry and prejudice are and can be.

Some people will always find a reason to be a bigot. Fairness, compassion, justice, truth, even the truth in the blood--none of that will matter to some ignoramuses so deeply warped by their own self-hatred that they need to dump it onto others.

As homosexuals became less and less a threatened minority, and more and more of a simply accepted one, the stigma directed at homosexuals will eventually (and even quickly) turn on homophobes and other assorted bigots. That time is coming.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

ASC ... exactly how are YOU hurt when two strangers you do not even know have a consensual relationship?

I suppose you could ask the same question regarding abortion. How does someone making a "choice" with their own body effect me and society in general?

Sewage is rarely kept in the confines of one's bedroom. As is the case with the modern day homosexual movement and it's agenda, it has forced it's way out of the closet into mainstream society and negatively effected people through the erosion of institutions that are necessary to society.

Examples are aplenty; ask and you will receive.

 

[Granite]

I suppose you could ask the same question regarding abortion. How does someone making a "choice" with their own body effect me and society in general?

Sewage is rarely kept in the confines of one's bedroom. As is the case with the modern day homosexual movement and it's agenda, it has forced it's way out of the closet into mainstream society and negatively effected people through the erosion of institutions that are necessary to society.

Examples are aplenty; ask and you will receive.

:yawn:

We could all ask you to shut your talkhole, or play in traffic. Just a thought.:idunno:

Wow, a warrior now! You fooled people here with your new moniker for what, a second? Any more invented stories about your time as a "cop" or now that you're a "warrior" will you regale us with breathless sagas from your time in SEAL Team Six?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

It appears that we have someone that is interested in my post and would like an example.

As Matt Barber writes in his column entitled "Sexual Anarchy":

In “Batman,” the Joker rhetorically asks a young Bruce Wayne: “Tell me, kid – you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight?” Well, I have. Not by the pale moonlight, but in a brightly lit Four Points Sheraton in Baltimore, Md.
On Wednesday, Aug. 17, I – along with the venerable child advocate Dr. Judith Reisman – attended a conference hosted by the pedophile group B4U-ACT. Around 50 individuals were in attendance, including a number of admitted pedophiles (or “minor-attracted persons” [MAPs] as they euphemistically prefer), a few self-described “gay activists” and several supportive mental-health professionals. World renowned “sexologist” Dr. Fred Berlin of Johns Hopkins University gave the keynote address, saying: “I want to completely support the goal of B4U-ACT.”
Here are some highlights from the conference:
• Pedophiles are “unfairly stigmatized and demonized” by society. • There was concern about “vice-laden diagnostic criteria” and “cultural baggage of wrongfulness.” • “We are not required to interfere with or inhibit our child’s sexuality.” • “Children are not inherently unable to consent” to sex with an adult. • “In Western culture sex is taken too seriously.” • “Anglo-American standard on age of consent is new [and ‘Puritanical’]. In Europe it was always set at 10 or 12. Ages of consent beyond that are relatively new and very strange, especially for boys. They’ve always been able to have sex at any age.” • An adult’s desire to have sex with children is “normative.” • Our society should “maximize individual liberty. … We have a highly moralistic society that is not consistent with liberty.” • “Assuming children are unable to consent lends itself to criminalization and stigmatization.” • “These things are not black and white; there are various shades of gray.” • A consensus belief by both speakers and pedophiles in attendance was that, because it vilifies MAPs, pedophilia should be removed as a mental disorder from the American Psychiatric Association’s (APA) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), in the same manner homosexuality was removed in 1973. • Dr. Fred Berlin acknowledged that it was political activism, similar to the incrementalist strategy witnessed at the conference, rather than a scientific calculus that successfully led to the declassification of homosexuality as a mental disorder: The reason “homosexuality was taken out of DSM is that people didn’t want the government in the bedroom,” he said. • The DSM ignores that pedophiles “have feelings of love and romance for children” in the same way adults love one another. • “The majority of pedophiles are gentle and rational.” • The DSM should “focus on the needs” of the pedophile, and should have “a minimal focus on social control,” rather than obsessing about the “need to protect children.” • Self-described “gay activist” and speaker Jacob Breslow said that children can properly be “the object of our attraction.” He further objectified children, suggesting that pedophiles needn’t gain consent from a child to have sex with “it” any more than we need consent from a shoe to wear it. He then used graphic, slang language to favorably describe the act of climaxing (ejaculating) “on or with” a child. No one in attendance objected to this explicit depiction of child sexual assault. There was even laughter. (In fairness, Dr. Berlin did later tell Mr. Breslow that his words might “anger” some people and that he [Berlin] is categorically opposed to adult-child sex with “pre-pubescent” children. When asked about the propriety of adult-child sex with pubescent children, Dr. Berlin did not provide a clear answer.)
So, am I just an intolerant, “pedophobic” bigot? Apparently so. In fact, Dr. Berlin says pedophilia is just another “sexual orientation.” Some of the “minor attracted” conference-goers insisted that they were “born that way.” Sound familiar?
This is sexual anarchy – fulfillment of the moral relativist dream.
http://townhall.com/columnists/mattbarber/2011/09/03/sexual_anarchy/page/full/

 

[genuineoriginal]

How pleasant it is as always to observe the crypto-theocracts advocating execution for private sexual acts between two consenting adults that they don't personally approve of.

You seem to be very confused.
The BIBLE says homosexual acts deserve the death penalty, but it also says that no one is to be put to death except on the word of two or three eyewitnesses.

How can there be two or three eyewitnesses of a private sexual act?

 

[Skavau]

You seem to be very confused.
The BIBLE says homosexual acts deserve the death penalty, but it also says that no one is to be put to death except on the word of two or three eyewitnesses.

How can there be two or three eyewitnesses of a private sexual act?

So the mandate for execution is ridiculous then. A scenario extremely unlikely to happen. In any case though, it is still totalitarian and by your reasoning above openly theocratic.

What do you think should happen to a homosexual that admits having homosexual sex?

 

[The Horn]

One current theory is that homosexuality has to do with hormones which come from one's mother int he womb, which seems fairly plausible. Whatever the reasons, homosexuality is private behavior, and what consenting adults do in private is THEIR business and no one else's .
Laws against homosexuality are not only wrong but immoral. The government has absolutely no business prying into people's bedrooms.
I'm sick of the way so many ignorant,narrow-minded,intolerant and self-righteous people appoint themselves judge,jury and executioner and presume to try to
pry into other people's sex lives and take away their rights .
People should learn to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS !!!!!!!!

 

[Rusha]

I suppose you could ask the same question regarding abortion. How does someone making a "choice" with their own body effect me and society in general?

You don't understand the difference between intentionally killing another human being VS two individuals having consensual sex?

Sewage is rarely kept in the confines of one's bedroom.

How odd ... unlike yourself, I don't concern myself with what happens in bedrooms of other consenting adults.

As is the case with the modern day homosexual movement and it's agenda, it has forced it's way out of the closet into mainstream society and negatively effected people through the erosion of institutions that are necessary to society.

Examples are aplenty; ask and you will receive.

Because you are forced to be gay or because you are not allowed to harass them? Too bad for you.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So the mandate for execution is ridiculous then. A scenario extremely unlikely to happen. In any case though, it is still totalitarian and by your reasoning above openly theocratic.

What do you think should happen to a homosexual that admits having homosexual sex?

There are a number of sexual acts listed in the Bible as deserving the death penalty, the primary one is ADULTERY. I am not a hypocrite that thinks I don't deserve the death penalty for committing adultery, even though we were two consenting adults doing private sexual acts. I know everyone that does any of the acts in this list of abominations deserves the death penalty.

Leviticus 20 10And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. 12And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them. 13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. 14And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. 15And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. 16And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.​

Even if we do not have the death penalty in our laws for these abominations, we will still be judged by God for all the abominations we have done in this life.

Romans 2 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God. 12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )​

We are in the last days prophesied in the Bible. You are a scoffer that is walking after your own lusts and are willfully ignorant of the flood that was God's judgment on the wickedness of the earth, but He is coming back to judge the world again, this time with fire on all who do not repent.

2 Peter 3 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.​

 

[kmoney]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 16th, 2011 10:12 AM

toldailytopic: Does your opinion about homosexuality change if the behavior turns out to be genetic?

I tend to think no. What should matter is how destructive the behavior is.

Assuming the behavior is bad, the cause of the behavior may play a role in what we do with the problem though.

And I already do believe that biology often plays a role in it. That isn't to say there is a "gay" gene, though.

 

[Skavau]

There are a number of sexual acts listed in the Bible as deserving the death penalty, the primary one is ADULTERY. I am not a hypocrite that thinks I don't deserve the death penalty for committing adultery, even though we were two consenting adults doing private sexual acts. I know everyone that does any of the acts in this list of abominations deserves the death penalty.

You would execute millions of people including yourself for an action that two people consented to. You didn't mention what should happen to open homosexuals that boast of previously having homosexual intercourse, though I suspect you would also argue that they should equally be executed.

Even if we do not have the death penalty in our laws for these abominations, we will still be judged by God for all the abominations we have done in this life.

Except there is apparently no coherent reason to view some of these 'abominations' as remotely abominable.

We are in the last days prophesied in the Bible. You are a scoffer that is walking after your own lusts and are willfully ignorant of the flood that was God's judgment on the wickedness of the earth, but He is coming back to judge the world again, this time with fire on all who do not repent.

You want to present God as a supernatural tyrant, by all means. But don't expect me to bow down to fascism.

Non Serviam.