toldailytopic: Do you want Obamacare to be repealed?

[Ryan Collins]

My family and I are uninsured and have been for months. We were rejected for the state's medicaid program and are unable to afford health insurance at the moment. I do not really care either way about the bill...maybe I will have a better opinion of it when I'm forced to have health insurance for seminary.

Until then, if it helps people out...I'm all for it. It will never get repealed though...it will pass in the House, fail in the Senate, but if it did in fact (by the slim chance that it has and I mean slim) pass in the Senate, Obama would veto it immediately.

 

[Ktoyou]

To quote your sig, K, "So, what?" This was simply my opinion. Do you have an issue with any of it, all of it, or none of it?

Not all of it, some of it would be nice; however, I doubt charity would provide enough, as people will be selective as to who they are charitable. Same with the other end, who are Gates and his ilk charitable towards? To those where is benefits them and gives them a sense of moral superiority.

They do not persuade me, nor does the idea that charity would make ends meet. I guess that makes me at odds with both sides. Nevertheless, I tell it like it is.:sigh:
goodnight
K

 

[Cracked]

My daugther in law was from Canada and she said when she had tooth ache she had to wait 6 months to see a dentist, so the Canadians come here to get it done quicker.

It's against the law for hospital to turn someone down that needs help and is why hundreds of hospitals have closed down all along the border between Mexico and America.

I'd like to know Tra, why you consider yourself a right-winger?

So, does that mean because you have the ability to pay, you should be first in line - to heck with those who can't pay. They shouldn't be mucking up your health care?

 

[Cracked]

It really all depends on how big you think the power of the central is supposed to be?

Do I think that the poor should have access to excellent healthcare options? Yes. But, I'd argue that the church would be a better option than the state for providing that.

As it stands, the church either can't or won't do it so something needs to be done. That said, like TH, I think significant work should be done to revising the plan, and if that isn't going to happen, then it ought to be repealed. In fact, it make far more sense to repeal the plan, make changes to it, and then re-implement it instead of the whole trial and error bit.

Do you really see the local church saying, "Yes, we'll pay for so-and-so's cancer treatments"? They would come up with some excuse like, "Well, if we pay for Joe's bypass then we'll be enabling people to eat unhealthy and not plan for their own healthcare needs..." That situation is not unlikely given the generally conservative nature of the American church. And then, what about the non-Christians? Do we force everyone to fake becoming Christian in order to get help? I can't see that as glorifying God.

 

[No Sheep Here]

I'd like to know Tra, why you consider yourself a right-winger?

This is political idiocy at it's best. just because Traditio does not hold your opinion (which BTW is not your own opinion but one you've borrowed from the Right Wing Zealots you imitate) about repealing healthcare you now feel compelled to ask him why he is even considering himself to be a Right Winger. This simply shows how you yourself lack the ability to think for yourself.

So all Right Wingers have to agree on the same thing or they aren't right wingers? :chuckle:

This is the post Women's Movement era, feel free to start thinking for yourself anytime now.

 

[skeptic griggsy]

Would we want to harm others? No, we must keep this law as it helps lower costs whilst extending insurance to most Americans. I'd prefer instead to have Medicare-Medicaid for all as that would save even more money!

 

[serpentdove]

It's working out great.

 

[Town Heretic]

It's working out great. http://lauraingraham.com/blog?categ.../community/blog/bloginclude.jsp&categoryID=10

A bit like looking for free trade commentary and notes from Marx (not the funny one...or the manager). lain:

 

[serpentdove]

[Laura Ingraham link] Marx

What do you think of the facts? each: "Blue Shield of California seeking cumulative hikes of as much as 59% for tens of thousands of customers March 1..."

 

[Town Heretic]

What do you think of the facts? each: "Blue Shield of California seeking cumulative hikes of as much as 59% for tens of thousands of customers March 1..."

I'd say until we see a direct accounting of how these rate hikes are attempting to be justified we should evidence the same degree of skepticism we do when listening to Congress or the White House.

Ultimately, it's fairly simple math. We spend over sixteen percent of our GDP on healthcare covering a portion of our population while other industrial nations spend less than ten to cover everyone.

It doesn't take a Nobel committee to realize that something is drastically wrong with our model and that either we're the worst money managers in the history of organized government or we're being bamboozled by someone.

 

[serpentdove]

"...ntil we see a direct accounting of how these rate hikes are attempting to be justified..."

What do you mean "until we see"? We have already seen. I suggest your re-read (and re-visit) the link from time to time. Do you think it's right to steal from others so that you can have healthcare? Ex 20:15. Are you a covetous person in general? 1 Tim. 6:9–1.

"...omething is drastically wrong with our model..."

Our heathcare system is the best in the world. :Commie: Liberals will destroy it (Jn 10:10).

Do you believe in every "crisis" coming from the Left?

 

[Nydhogg]

Our heathcare system is the best in the world.

Not sure about that. It's the most expensive, though.

16% of GDP to cover about 70% of the population. Most countries spend roughly 8-10% to cover the full 100%.

Odds are the health care industry is looting us all with impunity.

 

[No Sheep Here]

What do you mean "until we see"? We have already seen. I suggest your re-read (and re-visit) the link from time to time. Do you think it's right to steal from others so that you can have healthcare? Ex 20:15. Are you a covetous person in general? 1 Tim. 6:9–1.

Our heathcare system is the best in the world. :Commie: Liberals will destroy it (Jn 10:10).

Do you believe in every "crisis" coming from the Left?

Our healthcare system was not the best in the world. What planet do you live on? We have a healthcare system that can have a normal family with a decent life today, in bankruptcy and a broken home tomorrow.

If you think our previous healthcare system was great, it's either because you always have been fortunate enough to have good healthcare through an employer, never had serious medical issues, or just a poorly informed follower of your own party regarding the matter.

Get educated on the matter. Saying our healthcare system was the best shows you have no idea what you're talking about. For someone who claims every life is precious you sure have no problem accepting the fact that we let tons of people die because we have a poor healthcare system.

 

[Town Heretic]

What do you mean "until we see"?

When we have more than a general claim, without specific support. What did you think I meant? :squint:

We have already seen.

Who is we and when did that happen? oly:

I suggest your re-read (and re-visit) the link from time to time.

I read the one you provided. I noted the claims. I didn't note any supportive tissue, any examples of what, specifically, was leading to an unprecedented increase of the sort declared.

Do you think it's right to steal from others so that you can have healthcare? Ex 20:15.

I think taxes aren't theft any more than property is, to slap down two different absurd notions at a go. And putting a verse that says you aren't to steal doesn't establish the truth of the notion that taxes are theft, so why include it?

Are you a covetous person in general? 1 Tim. 6:9–1.

Are you an assumptive one? If you want to go this route, SD, I'll be your huckleberry, but you won't like the taste...unless enamel is a favorite flavor of yours. lain:

Our heathcare system is the best in the world. :Commie: Liberals will destroy it (Jn 10:10).

Best by what standard? Our infant mortality rate isn't. Our coverage isn't. Now if you're rich and/or privileged enough you absolutely can have the best to be had here...but that's true anywhere or when it isn't you can always fly where it is. lain:

Do you believe in every "crisis" coming from the Left?

The notion that our current system is broken isn't a left or right one. The differences have been over how to fix it...at least that's true if you believe the conservative right's rhetoric.

 

[The Horn]

Even if Obamacare is stopped, I very much doubt that the Republicans have anything better to offer. If they did,I would be all for it.
For Republicans,any one who has the money can always get great health care.The best in the world. But if you're poor or middle class,forget it. If you don't have the moolah and you're the victim of a catastrophic illness or are disabled by an accident,tough noogies.
Great health care policy. Just what America needs !

 

[Ktoyou]

Even if Obamacare is stopped, I very much doubt that the Republicans have anything better to offer. If they did,I would be all for it.
For Republicans,any one who has the money can always get great health care.The best in the world. But if you're poor or middle class,forget it. If you don't have the moolah and you're the victim of a catastrophic illness or are disabled by an accident,tough noogies.
Great health care policy. Just what America needs !

poor or middle class? :dizzy:

 

[serpentdove]

[Visit Laura Ingraham's "America Under Obamacare" link from time to time] "I read the one you provided. I noted the claims."

Check in once in a while. She's presently on day 239. It's not pretty (Jas 1:15). :shocked:

"I think taxes aren't theft..."

God required a tenth (even that was voluntary). Why should :Commie: our government require more? Lev. 27:32, 33 What percentage over ten percent do you propose? Hab. 2:9. Covetousness is theft. If you need something, ask the Lord for it (Mt 7:11). Get your hand out of your neighbor's pocket (Ro 13:9).

Does a man have a right to keep the money he's earned or would you prefer people pool their resources together? Ge 11:3-4, 11:7.

"All animals are equal."
~ George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 2

"I'll be your huckleberry..."

You're no daisy (Col. 3:5).

 

[Town Heretic]

Check in once in a while. She's presently on day 239. It's not pretty (Jas 1:15). :shocked:

It's all surface skimming so far as I can see. Again, a business claims it's losing money then let's look at the books. If it doesn't open them it isn't credible and until you have that sort of information you should be skeptical. The insurance industry has a vested interest in scaring us back into the better profit margin. I don't see a point in your loose use of scripture here as there's no necessary connection between it and your point and less argument to bridge the two.

God required a tenth (even that was voluntary). Why should :Commie: our government require more? Lev. 27:32, 33

What did Rome require? And what did Christ say about it? Mark 12:17 And what does that have to do with justifying the nonsensical notion of taxation, which is lawful, being theft, which isn't...

What percentage over ten percent do you propose? Hab. 2:9.

The provision for the sick, isn't an "evil gain". I've been thinking about taxes for some time. I tend to support a tax on purchased goods, with a break for necessities so that we don't end up with a poor tax, but I'm open to argument and don't find the current system grotesquely unfair.

Covetousness is theft.

No, it isn't. Theft is the unlawful taking of what doesn't belong to you. Coveting is the desire for that which is another's and to which you have no right of possession. Taxation is the lawful rendering unto Caesar and the duty of those investing and profiting from the social compact.

If you need something, ask the Lord for it (Mt 7:11).

You drive a car down the road to work or the grocery? Did you pay for the road? Could you? No. You derive benefit daily from the shared expense of the Republic and decry the next fellow's need.

Get your hand out of your neighbor's pocket (Ro 13:9).

It isn't. And in misusing Romans you miss the point entirely. If you are called to give more than you're asked, Matthew 5:40...if you would go further, forgive more readily and often, then you cannot reconcile that call with your hands clutching at your purse, accusing the poor, the needy, and your fellows of thievery.

Does a man have a right to keep the money he's earned or would you prefer people pool their resources together? Ge 11:3-4, 11:7.

You mean like Jesus did with the apostles? John 13:29 I don't think we're commanded to, but I don't see how this helps you in your theft argument. Odd and unrelated scripture choice you tacked on at the end there...or do you mean to compare a vanity project with caring for your brother?

"All animals are equal."
~ George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 2

Mark 12:30-31

You're no daisy (Col. 3:5).

Anyone can say it before the fact.

The scripture you provide is, again, inapplicable. On par with my old "Casting down the money, Judas departed, and went and hanged himself...Go, and do thou likewise." Matthew 27:5; Luke 10:37

:e4e:

 

[Nitro]

This is political idiocy at it's best. just because Traditio does not hold your opinion (which BTW is not your own opinion but one you've borrowed from the Right Wing Zealots you imitate) about repealing healthcare you now feel compelled to ask him why he is even considering himself to be a Right Winger. This simply shows how you yourself lack the ability to think for yourself.

So all Right Wingers have to agree on the same thing or they aren't right wingers? :chuckle:

This is the post Women's Movement era, feel free to start thinking for yourself anytime now.

Socialized medicine is NOT a right wing ideal.

 

[serpentdove]

"I don't see a point in your use loose of scripture here as there's no necessary connection between it and your point and less argument to bridge the two."

Stealing from people is wrong (Ex 20:15). Democrats would have you believe that stealing from others is necessary for the greater good. Recall Alan Grayson's claim that the Republican plan was: "Don't Get Sick! And if You Do Get Sick, Die Quickly!"' The buffoon is gone (I think he posts at TOL now in the form of Barbarian). But, as usual, liberals charge others with what their own wicked hearts desire (Jer 17:9, Jn 10:10, Eccl 10:2). Liberal polices harm people. They do not help people. They promise to spread wealth but in reality they only spread misery (1 Ti 6:10) and poverty (Pr 28:22). Thomas Sowell calls this "stage one thinking".

We do not do evil that good may come from it (Ro 3:8). God cannot bless that (Jas 1:15, Jer 34:17). Obama is not the first to want socialism. "Nimrod founded Babylon. He realized if the people would look to the government, they would no longer look to God (Enyart)."

See:

Nimrod

"[T]axation...is lawful...theft...isn't..."

How much is enough? Ec 5:10; Hab 2:5. Where in the Constitution does it say that government can tax people at different rates? Jos 7:21. Why would you want someone else's money? Pr 28:20; Mic 2:2. Pay for your own healthcare (Ps 10:3).

"The provision for the sick, isn't an "evil gain"."

If you need help, ask your church, family, and friends (Mt 25:36). You do not steal from others (Ex 20:15).

[Col. 3:5] "The scripture you provide is, again, inapplicable."

Do you resist the temptation to be taken care of? Covetousness is not attractive (Col. 3:5, 1 Tim. 6:9–11, Hab. 2:9, Ps. 39:6). Do you want to live in the land of opportunity or the land of coddling?

"In many ways I think we would be a much better country if we acted a little more like Europe Nineveh: Obama)."