To Those Who Think Adulterers, Homosexuals, Fornicators etc...

[Arthur Brain]

This is called special pleading.

You're ignoring the mercy and compassion shown to the victims by punishing the criminals swiftly and painfully.

No, it's rather just you assigning some silly descriptor.

There is nothing loving or merciful with your brand of puritanism where people are forced to marry if they have sex out of wedlock or people being killed if they've had affairs. You'd likely find that many of the families wouldn't support such either but then that doesn't really matter to you does it?

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, it's rather just you assigning some silly descriptor.

:think: "your brand of puritanism" :mock:

There is nothing loving or merciful

So you're saying that God is unloving and unmerciful?

with your brand of puritanism

:mock:

You hate God's commands, but you try to pass it off as hatred of what I say.

Yet what I say comes straight from God's book, the Bible.

where people are forced to marry if they have sex out of wedlock

“If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife.If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins. - Exodus 22:16-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus22:16-17&version=NKJV

“If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out,then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days. - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy22:28-29&version=NKJV

or people being killed if they've had affairs.

‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. - Leviticus 20:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus20:10&version=NKJV

“If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel.“If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her,then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor’s wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you. - Deuteronomy 22:22-24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy22:22-24&version=NKJV

You'd likely find that many of the families wouldn't support such either but then that doesn't really matter to you does it?

My standard for morality doesn't come from humans.

My standard of morality comes from God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Lord Jesus Christ says it was unlawful.

Matthew 12:4 KJV
(4) How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

Calling it a 'symbolic' law (which scripture does not) isn't going to change that it was not lawful.

Fair enough.

 

[Arthur Brain]

:think: "your brand of puritanism" :mock:



So you're saying that God is unloving and unmerciful?



:mock:

You hate God's commands, but you try to pass it off as hatred of what I say.

Yet what I say comes straight from God's book, the Bible.



“If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife.If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins. - Exodus 22:16-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus22:16-17&version=NKJV

“If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out,then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days. - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy22:28-29&version=NKJV



‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. - Leviticus 20:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus20:10&version=NKJV

“If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel.“If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her,then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor’s wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you. - Deuteronomy 22:22-24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy22:22-24&version=NKJV



My standard for morality doesn't come from humans.

My standard of morality comes from God.

Your "standard of morality" seems to come from Biblegateway and Bob Enyart. Hardly bastions of objectivity, compassion or morality in themselves. You're just another pompous puritan/legalist JR. You could really care less about people and are just a parrot.

 

[Arthur Brain]

“If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out,then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days. - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

"He seizes her"?! "He" isn't permitted to divorce her, all his days? What if she wants out?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Oh and what does "humbled her" mean exactly?

 

[Jacob]

“If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out,then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days. - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

"He seizes her"?! "He" isn't permitted to divorce her, all his days? What if she wants out?

Oh and what does "humbled her" mean exactly?

It means that she was not married. Some point out that she may accept him.

 

[Arthur Brain]

It means that she was not married. Some point out that she may accept him.

How does "seizing her" equate to her being "humbled"?

 

[Jacob]

How does "seizing her" equate to her being "humbled"?

I believe that it has to do with her not being married.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I believe that it has to do with her not being married.

What does "seizing her" mean? How does not being married have anything to do with being "humbled" after having being "seized"?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Oh and what does "humbled her" mean exactly?

Strong's H6031

 

[JudgeRightly]

You should read the next few words of that verse, where it says "they are found out," and not "he."

What does "seizing her" mean? How does not being married have anything to do with being "humbled" after having being "seized"?

Again, Strong's H6031.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Strong's H6301

How is that supposed to be of use in the context of a woman being "humbled" after having being "seized"?

 

[JudgeRightly]

How does "seizing her" equate to her being "humbled"?

I think you'll find, if you were to actually do ANY decent amount of study on how women were treated in the Bible, that God values women far higher than you do.

 

[JudgeRightly]

How is that supposed to be of use in the context of a woman being "humbled" after having being "seized"?

Sorry, wrong word. H6031 is the word used.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You should read the next few words of that verse, where it says "they are found out," and not "he."Again, Strong's H6031.

See directly above. You do know what seized means in usual definition right?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Sorry, wrong word. H6031 is the word used.

Again, no help in context.

 

[Jacob]

What does "seizing her" mean? How does not being married have anything to do with being "humbled" after having being "seized"?

You might be misunderstanding. She is not married so she has been seized and humbled. Not sex after marriage as it should be. The humbled part has to do with her having been seized instead of married which she could enjoy the right way. So he has to pay her father a penalty for not going about it the right way if it would be called a penalty. He found her not married and seized her. But afterward she is humbled.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I think you'll find, if you were to actually do ANY decent amount of study on how women were treated in the Bible, that God values women far higher than you do.

Oh, that's why you "mocked" me for criticizing a dumb post about women needing permission from their husband before doing stuff is it? You never did get back to that.



I sure ain't a misogynist, JR.

 

[JudgeRightly]

See directly above. You do know what seized means in usual definition right?

Sure. It means to lay hold of.

Here's what Strong's says:

Strong's h8610 - Lexical: תָּפַשׂ - Transliteration: taphas - Part of Speech: Verb - Phonetic Spelling: taw-fas' - Definition: seized. - Origin: A primitive root; to manipulate, i.e. Seize; chiefly to capture, wield, specifically, to overlay; figuratively, to use unwarrantably. - Usage: catch, handle, (lay, take) hold (on, over), stop, X surely, surprise, take. - Translated as (count): and took (6), and he shall be taken (2), And he took (2), and lay hold (2), be taken (2), handle (2), he was taken (2), Take (2), take them (2), took (2), you have taken (2), And caught (1), and handles (1), and him who handles (1), And I took (1), And she caught him (1), and surprised (1), and take (1), and take him (1), And they took (1), And they took them (1), and they who handle (1), and we shall catch them (1), are stopped (1), are surprised (1), caught (1), I may take (1), it to take it (1), laid over (1), Lay hold him (1), let them be taken (1), of the taking (1), of them handling (1), shall be taken (1), shall surely (1), shall take hold (1), so they took (1), takes hold (1), that handle (1), that hold (1), that it may be handled (1), that they may be taken (1), Then they took (1), they took (1), those who play (1), those who took (1), to hold (1), to seize (1), When they took hold (1), you shall be taken (1).

The passage is describing a man captivating a woman, and having sex with her (where she is a willing participant and not married or betrothed).