Three Men Marry (each other) in Colombia

Tambora

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Rather, yes and consent aren't the same thing.
I didn't say they were.
Legal status excluded, what 'information' are you suggesting the 16 year old does not have a grasp on when he consents to have sex with his teacher?
He knows what sex is and he knows a disease or pregnancy could occur.
Other than the legality of it, what is the difference in the info needed for the 16 year old to consent and older adults to consent?
 

glassjester

Well-known member
Now then, IF you wish to discuss bestiality, it will have to be with someone else because I am not playing into your diversionary, off-topic *argument*.

It isn't off-topic. It shows that you do believe in regulating the sexual activity of adults, even if the activity doesn't harm anyone.

I am trying to see what you would base such regulations on (since it isn't based solely on harm).
 

Tambora

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It isn't off-topic. It shows that you do believe in regulating the sexual activity of adults, even if the activity doesn't harm anyone.

I am trying to see what you would base such regulations on (since it isn't based solely on harm).
BINGO!
The 'harm' excuse doesn't hold true when scrutinized.
The best you can say is sometimes it harms and sometimes it doesn't,
 

Rusha

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It isn't off-topic.

Of course it is ...

It shows that you do believe in regulating the sexual activity of adults, even if the activity doesn't harm anyone.

I am not the one who is making the claim that your off topic example doesn't harm anyone ...

I am trying to see what you would base such regulations on (since it isn't based solely on harm).

Common sense and liberty. Your reason for being against gay marriage is based solely on religion.

I am not saying you have to agree or be kind to gay people or couples, just that your religion should not dictate their private lives.
 

Town Heretic

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I didn't say they were.
I'm correcting your consent/legal consent in relation to sex. A minor can't consent to sex. We don't recognize the legitimacy of their yes. The law takes this position for a number or reasons. I touched upon the primary, experiential and biological incapacity to fully understand, as well as the inherent inequity of an adult in relation where that's applicable.

Legal status excluded, what 'information' are you suggesting the 16 year old does not have a grasp on when he consents to have sex with his teacher?
Understanding goes beyond an ability to recount plain fact, Tam. A two year old can tell you that he want's to eat and eat and eat that tub of ice cream for breakfast, dinner, and lunch. He grasps the facts of it. But his judgment is impaired, both biologically (no to poor impulse inhibition) and experientially (he doesn't know the relative values that should impact his decision, cannot weigh the long term dangers of his conduct and will likely overlook even stated short term concerns like a stomach ache).

He knows what sex is and he knows a disease or pregnancy could occur.
Right. He sees the bowl of ice cream. But that's just about all he's seeing and that's important. So we protect him, both from the predatory adult and from himself.
 

Rusha

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Question: Why shouldn't adult brothers be allowed to marry?

Answer: NO FAIR! OFF TOPIC! NO NO NO NO!

Because it's as relevant as asking why five year old's shouldn't be allowed to drink, smoke, drive and get tattoos ...

Your distraction ... err I mean *argument* is not relevant to the topic. Your religion being the basis for your view is relevant ... insofar as easily rejected due to freedom of and FROM religion.
 

Town Heretic

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Same with incest.

Question: Why shouldn't adult brothers be allowed to marry?

Answer: NO FAIR! OFF TOPIC! NO NO NO NO!
Rather, you've evidenced a habit in this thread of calculated retreat to new positions instead of owning problems with the line of reasoning that gave birth to the tactic.

So you began with the slippery slope business while suggesting some have said gay marriage won't lead to polygamy. I noted that what I'd said on the topic was that it won't lead to legalizing pedophilia. I also noted that the slipper slope approach was actually nonsense though, and that gay marriage wouldn't lead to polygamy either, that polygamy would have to find its own feet, legally speaking.

What gay marriage consideration tells you is that our society is willing to reconsider laws relating to social institutions if those laws can be demonstrated to be contrary to Constitutional protection. Sometimes we are and sometimes we aren't. For a very long time society put up with slavery even though the men who wrote the Constitution understood its hypocrisy in light of that practice.

Anyway, your counter was that redefining marriage paved the way. Of course marriage wasn't so defined to begin with, legally. I set out the problematic history of it. And once gays weren't being criminalized and began attempting to use the contract THEN states resorted to an attempt to define by statute and the whole thing ended up in court after court.

Next thing I know it's about procreation. So I noted marriage wasn't about procreation, that the state made no demands or inquiry on the point and never had, though it would give you a tax break and would certainly value the contribution. You further suggested that the state allowing gay marriage opened the door to "any and all perversions." A concern that has no real basis in legal fact. I've regularly unhorsed the attempt by some around here to use that slope approach in relation to pedophilia, by way of example.

You then asserted that gay marriage allowance would change the regard for the institution over time and compared gay marriage to an attack upon the institution. Later you evidenced a willingness to criminalize adultery as though it might be impactful, but were scornful of the notion that people would forgo entering into marriages over concerns relating to the law, which set up a problem of operating principle for you.

And now it's beastiality. . .
 

Tambora

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I'm correcting your consent/legal consent in relation to sex. A minor can't consent to sex. We don't recognize the legitimacy of their yes. The law takes this position for a number or reasons. I touched upon the primary, experiential and biological incapacity to fully understand, as well as the inherent inequity of an adult in relation where that's applicable.


Understanding goes beyond an ability to recount plain fact, Tam. A two year old can tell you that he want's to eat and eat and eat that tub of ice cream for breakfast, dinner, and lunch. He grasps the facts of it. But his judgment is impaired, both biologically (no to poor impulse inhibition) and experientially (he doesn't know the relative values that should impact his decision, cannot weigh the long term dangers of his conduct and will likely overlook even stated short term concerns like a stomach ache).


Right. He sees the bowl of ice cream. But that's just about all he's seeing and that's important. So we protect him, both from the predatory adult and from himself.
We are discussing a 16 year old, not a 2 year old.
Huge difference.
 
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