This is what emboldened white supremacists look like

[ok doser]

A judge is a member of the NRA. A case comes before him challenging an assault weapon ban. Should he recused himself?

not automatically, no

but i'd be receptive to a question of his potential objectivity


the problem with your hypothetical, of course, is that the NRA promotes lawful gun ownership and use


a better constructed hypothetical might be the following:

A judge is a member of an organization that promotes illegal ownership of assault weapons. A case comes before him challenging an assault weapon ban. Should he recuse himself?

 

[rexlunae]

not automatically, no

but i'd be receptive to a question of his potential objectivity


the problem with your hypothetical, of course, is that the NRA promotes lawful gun ownership and use


a better constructed hypothetical might be the following:

A judge is a member of an organization that promotes illegal ownership of assault weapons. A case comes before him challenging an assault weapon ban. Should he recuse himself?

Trump didn't offer an argument about his fairness, objectivity, or about how he applied the law. He didn't even offer an argument about his membership in La Raza. If we were to take your approach here, we'd need to demand more from Trump.

 

[ok doser]

Trump didn't offer an argument....

so?

in what bizarre world would you have expected him to?

 

[rexlunae]

so?

in what bizarre world would you have expected him to?

The world where he offers cogent rationales for his activities rather than incoherent rants, conspiracy theories, and racism. So, a different one.

 

[ok doser]

The world where he offers cogent rationales for his activities rather than incoherent rants, conspiracy theories, and racism. So, a different one.

keep dreamin' :chuckle:

 

[ClimateSanity]

Trump didn't offer an argument about his fairness, objectivity, or about how he applied the law. He didn't even offer an argument about his membership in La Raza. If we were to take your approach here, we'd need to demand more from Trump.

Trump doesn't operate that way with baying wolves out for his scalp. He knows that if he lays his mind out there with all the complete details, the wolves will misuse his words and distort them in a most grotesque way. They already do that with the small sound bites he gives them.

 

[ClimateSanity]

so?

in what bizarre world would you have expected him to?

My point exactly.

 

[ClimateSanity]

The world where he offers cogent rationales for his activities rather than incoherent rants, conspiracy theories, and racism. So, a different one.

The MSM won't treat cogent rationales fairly. They would tear him to pieces.

 

[ClimateSanity]

I wonder if more of the people here who are promoting the Marxist Left are part of the Millennial Generation, born from the early eighties to the early 2000's? If so, that would fit the dominance of the Millennials in the Marxist Left nationally in 2016-2017.

And could it be that the Millennials are more caught up in the use of the dialectic, and do not know what the dialectic is? If true, this does not mean that the people on TOL who are older than the Millennials are free of the dialectic.

There probably are many people from the two Baby Boomer age groups on TOL. The oldest Baby boomers are now about 61 to 70. They are mostly the children of the World War II age group. Then there are the younger Baby Boomers who are mostly the children of the Korean War age group. These younger Baby Boomers were born from about 1956 to 1964 and are now about 53 to 61. There was another generation between the youngest Baby Boomers and the Millennials, born from about 1965 to 1980, sometimes called the Generation X people.

It would not be surprising that the influence of Marxism and of the dialectic increases from the oldest Baby Boomers to the Millennials, while the influence of Marxism and the dialectic upon Americans born before about 1946 was confined to a very few people.

Look at the people who began the present day populist and patriot movement, who, if known by the Marxist Millennials, are highly disliked. Ron Paul was born in 1935, almost a member of the Korean War age group. Then there were the short wave broadcasters of the nineties. William Cooper was maybe the oldest of this group, born in 1943. I don't know when Steve Quayle was born, but probably also in the early forties. Larry Nichols was born in 1951 and Mark Koernke in 1957.

Most of the Marxists on here are not millennials I gather. They do seem to be linked to the cultural establishment in some way though which is responsible for the millennials warped mindset.

 

[Rusha]

The world where he offers cogent rationales for his activities rather than incoherent rants, conspiracy theories, and racism. So, a different one.

That would be delightful ... however, until he is impeached or no longer in office, we can count on one thing: the continual decline of American values and trustworthiness (as viewed from our allies).

 

[ClimateSanity]

Great post that deserves more discussion

I agree

 

[northwye]

Since the appearance of carrying on a quarrel on a particular topic can be done by someone who does not know anything about that topic but knows how to use tactics of the dialectic, then it can be said that this is deception. It can also be said that this is a form of gaming. The one who knows nothing about a particular topic but carries on a quarrel involving that issue using the dialectic is gaming his opponent, if the opponment continues to dialogue with him, or her.

 

[Town Heretic]

Since the appearance of carrying on a quarrel on a particular topic can be done by someone who does not know anything about that topic but knows how to use tactics of the dialectic, then it can be said that this is deception.

A person who just wants to fight will be exposed if you meet the impulse with substance and they can't match or address it. I have a stalker who does that all the time. It's no great shakes.

Now then, what's the word for a person who writes a great deal but avoids engagement when met on his own points? Because that has been your methodological approach so far as my anecdotal experience goes with you.

 

[Town Heretic]

Are you gonna answer the question?

You're smart enough to realize I not only did, I went at the presumption in the question.

So that leaves me wondering why you're playing this chrysostom/Trad like game of "Say it like I want you to". It smacks of a canned response.

But okay, I'll pretend your off your game for a minute.

Does anything dealing with immigration (and because I'm pretending you're off, that includes the particular building of a wall and deporting illegals, in case that doesn't seem obvious to you) impact Latinos? Of course it does. Is the organization La Raza concerned with anything that impacts Latinos? Of course it is. Does that mean there's a demonstrable conflict of interest that precludes the fair hearing by the judge in question? Of course there isn't.

That was the reason I set out other points in parallel. All sorts of things impact us. It doesn't follow that we're incapable of fairness, of impartiality on the point of examination. You need more than a concern for Latino's. And the letter I noted that objected to a show encouraging undocumented workers would, if anything, read to a potential bias against the undocumented.

Now it's your turn to make an actual case. Can you?

 

[ok doser]

...I not only did, I went at the presumption in the question.

maybe people wouldn't think you were such a jerk if you didn't do that

 

[northwye]

"Most of the Marxists on here are not millennials I gather. They do seem to be linked to the cultural establishment in some way though which is responsible for the millennials warped mindset."

Thanks for the response. Do you mean by "linked to the cultural establishmen" that the mainstream media and the universities are who the Leftist millennials get their talking points from? And maybe that the Leftists on TOl are getting their talking points from the same sources?

 

[Town Heretic]

"Most of the Marxists on here are not millennials I gather.

There are Marxists here? Maybe. I can't recall any though.

They do seem to be linked to the cultural establishment in some way though which is responsible for the millennials warped mindset.

So this is pretty much your game, making pronouncements and avoiding engagement.

Okay. It's your dime...unless you stole it. :noid:

 

[northwye]

I'm interested in the conflict between political correctness and the Alternative Media, and topics related to this interest. I am also interested in studying the use of the dialectic which is used here on TOl. But I am not interested at all in getting into prolonged quarrels with individuals on these topics. because I know where that leads - into more and more of the dialectic. The dialectic is a set of tactics on ways of seeming to win arguments and deals with arguments and counter arguments of that winning.

I began to become interested in the topic of the dialectic itself in about 2004 on a Christian Yahoo group. And the dialectic is related to Marxism. Dialectic is a big topic and there are many ways in which it is used, and forms of it are more deceptive than other forms and some specific tactics of the dialectic are more nasty than others.

And interestingly the dialectic I have been interested in goes along with a form of Marxism that originally mixed Marx with Freud and later in the U.S. mixed Marx with American personality and social psychology, as well as self psychology, the group dynamics movement within social psychology and the encounter group movement.

But this is mostly beyond the level of the Marxist Left as it exists in 2016-2017, though the Left of the sixties and seventies was more sophisticated, something which the Leftists of today might mock.

 

[Town Heretic]

I'm interested in the conflict between political correctness and the Alternative Media, and topics related to this interest.

You should start a thread about it. Though until you appear as interested in debate I don't know how well it will go over.

I am also interested in studying the use of the dialectic which is used here on TOl.

Well, I can tell you that there aren't many here with a doctoral ease, so words like dialectic won't really mean much to anyone.

And interestingly the dialectic I have been interested in goes along with a form of Marxism that originally mixed Marx with Freud and later in the U.S. mixed Marx with American personality and social psychology, as well as self psychology, the group dynamics movement within social psychology and the encounter group movement.

I can't speak for liberals any more than I can speak for libertarians, but as a well educated moderate with a background in history and some psychology, along with cultural anthropology I'd have to begin any response by suggesting that conflating left with Marxism is misleading and irresponsible. The left encompasses a fairly wide tent, with Marxists occupying a fairly slight sliver, just as the Tea Party enthusiasts are a fairly small if loud contingent among conservative ranks.

 

[northwye]

There are millions of veterans alive now in America from the Korean and Viet-Nam wars. Who did those guys fight in those two wars and what were they - or were we - fighting? It was a form of Marxism we were fighting. But now in 2016-2017 we have a Marxist movement going on which does not want to give up the Marxism of the eight years of Obama. We also had eight years of Bill and Hillary before Obama. But all of a sudden there is a new patriot and populist movement which brought in a guy who is not exactly a Marxist, and the Marxists in the universities and elsewhere are screaming slogans they got from the mainstream media and the universities.

There is also a moral problem in lying about the present day Left on TOL not being Marxist. What other Left is there beside the Marxist Left? There was a kind of another Left back in the Counterculture of the sixties rather than in the Counterculture of the seventies, but again the present day Marxist Left is dumbed down and its members were not even born then or were too young to remember the time. That other Left in the sixties was an influence from the Beat Poets, the Art Bohemians,and the LSD movement and along with that the interest then in oriental religions, all too esoteric for present day Marxists. The present day Marxists don't even know that one of the main Beat poets, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, is still alive, though he should have been dead for 20 years in their small minds? I don't think that Ferlinghetti, Allen Ginsberg, Gary Snyder, or Kenneth Patchen were followers of Marx.