This day have I begotten you

[freelight]

Yeah, it is highly unlikely you will find the depiction of a fiery dove with hair that is white like pure wool, as white as snow, having seven eyes of fire and girded about the breast in pure golden uphaz-light, its wings like a flying megillah scroll written within and without, (and their knobs as if a wheel within a wheel), and the span of its wings being twenty cubits by ten cubits to fill the entire tabernacle of the testimony in its fullness to repletion. Can you imagine eating a roll of that size? Sweet as honey in the mouth but bitter in the belly. And when he is seated in his fiery throne, a river of fire proceeds from before him, O son of enosh: yea, fire on the Yarden River, and all your Nazarite hair will be consumed in the offering. :chuckle:

Yes, pretty awesome but I think some visionary artists have tried to depict these heavenly or cosmic spectacles - I'm reminded of JJ Hurtak's Keys of Enoch book,...it has some pictorials,...but not sure if all inclusive as you suggest. His Academy has some fine art here. (for illustrative purposes only). In the meantime, a reflection of our Mother from above will do

View attachment 25198

 

[daqq]

Yes, pretty awesome but I think some visionary artists have tried to depict these heavenly or cosmic spectacles - I'm reminded of JJ Hurtak's Keys of Enoch book,...it has some pictorials,...but not sure if all inclusive as you suggest. His Academy has some fine art here. (for illustrative purposes only). In the meantime, a reflection of our Mother from above will do

View attachment 25198

A city (of seven congregations) seated on the mountain of Elohim cannot be hidden. In the mountain of YHWH shall your Ram be seen-provided, (lift up your eyes and look behind you).

 

[daqq]

Yes, pretty awesome but I think some visionary artists have tried to depict these heavenly or cosmic spectacles - I'm reminded of JJ Hurtak's Keys of Enoch book,...it has some pictorials,...but not sure if all inclusive as you suggest. His Academy has some fine art here. (for illustrative purposes only). In the meantime, a reflection of our Mother from above will do

View attachment 25198

Remember this?

Mariam the mother of Yeshua is the final typology of Yerushalaim of above, which begins in Genesis 3:15 and continues through Sarah, Rachel, the "woman" of Revelation 12, and so on, and so on. Paul lays out the allegorical typology for us in Galatians 4:22-31 which even goes so far as to quote Isaiah 54:1, (a remez-pointer to the whole context of that passage), linking Yerushalaim of above to the Mishkan-Tabernacle, (Mother Covenant). Paul even states clearly in that passage that the two women, (Sarah and Hagar the Egyptian), are an allegory for two covenants. Thus the women are the cities are the covenants. It is all an allegory. Elohim has again taken foolish things and confounded once again those who think themselves to be wise. Most of the mainstream are taking allegorical writings full of poetry and idiomatic language and forcing a literal physical interpretation onto them.

The women are the cities are the covenants are an allegory:

Galatians 4:22-27 ASV
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the handmaid, and one by the freewoman.
23 Howbeit the son by the handmaid is born after the flesh; but the son by the freewoman is born through promise.
24 Which things contain an allegory: for these women are two covenants; one from mount Sinai, bearing children unto bondage, which is Hagar.
25 Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband [Isaiah 54:1].

Isaiah 54:1-3 KJVRN
54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, [Galatians 4:27] saith YHWH.
54:2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, [Exodus 26:7-14] and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: [Exodus 26:1-33] spare not, lengthen thy cords, [Exodus 35:18] and strengthen thy stakes; [Exodus 27:19]
54:3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

2 Corinthians 5:1-4
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle-tent were dissolved, we have a building of Elohim, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle-tent do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

So there is Yerushalem of above which represents the Mishkan-Tabernacle of Elohim and our mother-covenant; but likewise there be daughters of Yerushalem prepared as brides for the adornment of their men, (each in his own appointed times; new covenant, new Yerushalem). Oh to be clothed from on High with an house not made with hands; when the Tabernacle of Elohim is with men, (each in his own appointed times, times appointed of the Father when a child becomes a son, a day and hour only the Father knows).

​

 

[daqq]

So then what does the following mean?

Matthew 21:1-9
1 And when they drew nigh unto Yerushalem, and came unto Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then Yeshua sent two disciples:
2 saying unto them, Go into the village that is over against you, and straightway you shall find a donkey tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3 And if any one say aught unto you, you shall say, The Master has need of them; and straightway he will send them.
4 Now this is come to pass that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying:
5 Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king comes unto you, meek, and riding upon a donkey, and upon a colt the foal of a donkey [Zechariah 9:9].
6 And the disciples went, and did even as Yeshua appointed them:
7 and brought the donkey, and the colt, and put on them their garments; and he sat thereon.
8 And the most part of the multitude spread their garments in the way; and others cut branches from the trees, and spread them in the way.
9 And the multitudes that went before him, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that comes in the name of YHWH; Hosanna in the highest.

Yeshua already has the new covenant at this point in the above passage, when he enters into Yerushalem for the last time in his earthly ministry: for who is the new covenant but the daughter of Zion-Yerushalem? Yerushalem of above is our mother(covenant) and therefore the daughter of Yerushalem is the new covenant-bride:

John 3:27-30
27 Yohanan answered, and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from the heavens.
28 You yourselves bear me witness that I said, I am not the Meshiah, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that has the bride is the groom: but the friend of the groom that stand and hears him rejoices greatly because of the groom's voice: this therefore my joy is made full.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

Who or what then is the holy mountain of Elohim? The sanctified man is the mountain. Who therefore is the king whom the Father has set in His holy mountain? The king is His Word seated in His holy mountain, that is, Ruach Elohim, Ruach Meshiah from the heavens: the Son of man who descended from the heavens. The following therefore has already occurred in the ministry of Yeshua and it no doubt occurred at his immersion:

The One dwelling in the heavens shall mock them, and the Adonai-Master shall deride them: at that time he shall speak to them in his anger, and in his passion he will agitate them, declaring the decree of YHWH:

"But I am appointed king under Him upon His holy mount Zion, YHWH has said unto me: You are My Son, this day have I begotten you; ask of Me, and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and you shall possess the extremities of the earth; you will shepherd them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter shall you break them."

Psalm 2:4-7 (M/T)
4 He that is seated in the heavens shall laugh: Adonai shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall He speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set My king upon My holy mount Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: YHWH has said unto me, You are My son; this day have I begotten you.

The holy mountain is the sanctified man Yeshua.
The king seated in the holy mountain is Meshiah ImmanuEl.
The Father is the Head over all who set His king in His holy mountain.

 

[daqq]

Isaiah 49:22
22 Thus says Adonai YHWH, Behold, I will lift up My hand to the nations, and set up My signpost to the peoples; and they shall bring your sons in their bosom, and your daughters shall be borne upon their shoulders.

Sons of Zion in their bosom.
Daughters of Zion borne upon their shoulders.

:Nineveh:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So then what does the following mean?

Matthew 21:1-9
1 And when they drew nigh unto Yerushalem, and came unto Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then Yeshua sent two disciples:
2 saying unto them, Go into the village that is over against you, and straightway you shall find a donkey tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3 And if any one say aught unto you, you shall say, The Master has need of them; and straightway he will send them.
4 Now this is come to pass that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying:
5 Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king comes unto you, meek, and riding upon a donkey, and upon a colt the foal of a donkey [Zechariah 9:9]

Yes, and we see the same King spoken of here:

"And the LORD (JWHW) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one" (Zech.14:9).​

Of course this is referring to the Lord Jesus, as the following passage makes clear:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever." (Isa.9:6-7).​

 

[daqq]

Yes, and we see the same King spoken of here:

"And the LORD (JWHW) shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one" (Zech.14:9).​

Of course this is referring to the Lord Jesus, as the following passage makes clear:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever." (Isa.9:6-7).​

You are mixing things that should not be mixed. The Father YHWH is the Great King and even Yeshua himself says that Yerushalem is the city of the Great King, (Matthew 5:35). Additionally any man who is put to death and hung on a tree is accursed, that is, in the sense of having been belittled or made light of, (not damned or execrated). You are cursing yourself by saying that "Jesus is JHWH" as you do and have done; for anyone who makes light of the Father in this way, (understood as cursing), blasphemes and is put to death for doing so, (Lev 24:11-16), and that is to say, spiritual death, no doubt, (for we know that the Torah is spiritual). This kind of cursing is the same used for anyone who curses his father or his mother, which means to belittle, for which in this case also the penalty is again spiritual death. There is no reason to even argue this point any further with you because most everyone knows that YHWH is the Father and Yeshua is not the Father. You are simply confounding the two so as to make them equal. They are not equal and by forcing your way you are blaspheming because anyone who makes the Father to be accursed in the same sense as Yeshua is blaspheming the Father. How else do you suppose Yeshua knew how he was going to die? This is so that his own people would know that it was not about worshiping him but rather honoring his Testimony and doing it. For the same reason the prophet Isaiah advised king Hezekiah to smash and destroy the brass serpent, Nehushtan, (and his face was marred beyond recognition), for the people were burning incense to it, that is, praying to it. Likely also for the same reason the burial place and body of Moses was hidden.

As for Who is the too-Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, and Mighty El, Who is Immanu·El of the Isaiah prophecy from the previous passages: you will need the Torah background to understand Who is the Prophet, Who is to come, and then perhaps you might better understand Isaiah; for Who is this Son of man, and Who has believed our report, and the arm of YHWH has been revealed to Who, and Who is he that comes from Edom with garments died red from Bozrah, and Who took away Miy question marks. :chuckle:

 

[daqq]

Additionally any man who is put to death and hung on a tree is accursed, that is, in the sense of having been belittled or made light of, (not damned or execrated). You are cursing yourself by saying that "Jesus is JHWH" as you do and have done; for anyone who makes light of the Father in this way, (understood as cursing), blasphemes and is put to death for doing so, (Lev 24:11-16), and that is to say, spiritual death, no doubt, (for we know that the Torah is spiritual). This kind of cursing is the same used for anyone who curses his father or his mother, which means to belittle, for which in this case also the penalty is again spiritual death. There is no reason to even argue this point any further with you because most everyone knows that YHWH is the Father and Yeshua is not the Father. You are simply confounding the two so as to make them equal. They are not equal and by forcing your way you are blaspheming because anyone who makes the Father to be accursed in the same sense as Yeshua is blaspheming the Father. How else do you suppose Yeshua knew how he was going to die? This is so that his own people would know that it was not about worshiping him but rather honoring his Testimony and doing it.

Funny how the majority of Christian scholarship claims that the following is an early pious Christian forgery. If they had half a brain they would see that no supposed early Trinitarian minded "pious Christian scribe" would have written such a thing. It is therefore either originally written by a Jewish hand as it claims, (the author claims Nicodemus originally wrote it in Hebrew), or if not, and if indeed it was written by an early Christian scribe, then early Christianity was apparently not so Trinitarian when it was written.

Gospel of Nicodemus XVI [M.R. James-Translation]
1 And when the rulers of the synagogue and the priests and the Levites heard these words of Joseph they became as dead men and fell to the ground, and they fasted until the ninth hour. And Nicodemus with Joseph comforted Annas and Caiaphas and the priests and the Levites, saying: Rise up and stand on your feet and taste bread and strengthen your souls, for tomorrow is the sabbath of the Lord. And they rose up and prayed unto God and did eat and drink, and departed every man to his house.

2 And on the sabbath the (al. our) teachers and the priests and Levites sat and questioned one another and said: What is this wrath that is come upon us? for we know his father and his mother. Levi the teacher saith: I know that his parents feared God and kept not back their vows and paid tithes three times a year. And when Jesus was born, his parents brought him up unto this place and gave sacrifices and burnt-offerings to God. And [when] the great teacher Symeon took him into his arms and said: Now lettest thou thy servant, Lord, depart in peace for mine eyes have seen thy salvation which thou hast prepared before the face of all peoples, a light to lighten the Gentiles and the glory of thy people Israel. And Symeon blessed them and said unto Mary his mother: I give thee good tidings concerning this child. And Mary said: Good, my lord? And Symeon said to her : Good. Behold, he is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel, and for a sign spoken against: and a sword shall pierce through thine own heart also, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

3 They say unto Levi the teacher: How knowest thou these things? Levi saith unto them: Know ye not that from him I did learn the law? [Levi of Alphayahu] The council say unto him: We would see thy father. And they sent after his father, and asked of him, and he said to them: Why believed ye not my son? the blessed and righteous Symeon, he did teach him the law. The council saith: Rabbi Levi, is the word true which thou hast spoken? And he said: It is true. Then the rulers of the synagogue and the priests and the Levites said among themselves: Come, let us send into Galilee unto the three men which came and told us of his teaching and his taking-up, and let them tell us how they saw him taken up. And this word pleased them all, and they sent the three men which before had gone with them into Galilee and said to them: Say unto Rabbi Addas and Rabbi Phinees and Rabbi Aggaeus: peace be to you and to all that are with you. Inasmuch as great questioning hath arisen in the council, we have sent unto you to call you unto this holy place of Jerusalem.

4 And the men went into Galilee and found them sitting and meditating upon the law, and saluted them in peace. And the men that were in Galilee said unto them that were come to them: Peace be upon all Israel. And they said: Peace be unto you. Again they said unto them: Wherefore are ye come? And they that were sent said: The council calleth you unto the holy city Jerusalem. And when the men heard that they were bidden by the council, they prayed to God and sat down to meat with the men and did eat and drink, and rose up and came in peace unto Jerusalem.

5 And on the morrow the council was set in the synagogue, and they examined them, saying: Did ye in very deed see Jesus sitting upon the mount Mamilch, as he taught his eleven disciples, and saw ye him taken up? And the men answered them and said: Even as we saw him taken up, even so did we tell it unto you.

6 Annas saith: Set them apart from one another, and let us see if their word agreeth. And they set them apart one from another, and they call Addas first and say unto him: How sawest thou Jesus taken up? Addas saith: While he yet sat upon the Mount Mamilch and taught his disciples, we saw a cloud that overshadowed him and his disciples: and the cloud carried him up into heaven, and his disciples lay (al. prayed, lying) on their faces upon the earth. And they called Phinees the priest, and questioned him also, saying: How sawest thou Jesus taken up? And he spake in like manner. And again they asked Aggaeus, and he also spake in like manner. And the council said: It is contained in the law of Moses: At the mouth of two or three shall every word be established.

Abuthem (Bouthem Gr., Abudem lat., Abuden, Abuthen Arm.,om. Copt.) the teacher saith: It is written in the law: Enoch walked with God and is not, because God took him. Jaeirus the teacher said: Also we have heard of the death of the holy Moses and have not seen him; for it is written in the law of the Lord: And Moses died at the mouth of the Lord, and no man knew of his sepulchre unto this day. And Rabbi Levi said: Wherefore was it that Rabbi Symeon said when he saw Jesus: Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel and for a sign spoken against? And Rabbi Isaac said: It is written in the law: Behold I send my messenger before thy face, which shall go before thee to keep thee in every good way, for my name is named thereon.

7 Then said Annas and Caiaphas: Ye have well said those things which are written in the law of Moses, that no man saw the death of Enoch, and no man hath named the death of Moses. But Jesus spake before Pilate, and we know that we saw him receive buffets and spittings upon his face, and that the soldiers put on him a crown of thorns and that he was scourged and received condemnation from Pilate, and that he was crucified at the place of a skull and two thieves with him, and that they gave him vinegar to drink with gall, and that Longinus the soldier pierced his side with a spear, and that Joseph our honourable father begged his body, and that, as he saith, he rose again, and that (lit. as) the three teachers say: We saw him taken up into heaven, and that Rabbi Levi spake and testified to the things which were spoken by Rabbi Symeon, and that he said: Behold this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel and for a sign spoken against.

And all the teachers said unto all the people of the Lord: If this hath come to pass from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes, ye shall surely know, O house of Jacob, that it is written: Cursed is every one that hangeth upon a tree. And another scripture teacheth: The gods which made not the heaven and the earth shall perish. And the priests and the Levites said one to another: If his memorial endure until the Sommos (Copt. Soum) which is called Jobel (i. e. the Jubilee), know ye that he will prevail for ever and raise up for himself a new people. Then the rulers of the synagogue and the priests and the Levites admonished all Israel, saying: Cursed is that man who shall worship that which man's hand hath made, and cursed is the man who shall worship creatures beside the Creator. And all the people said: Amen, Amen. And all the people sang an hymn unto the Lord and said:

Blessed be the Lord who hath given rest unto the people of Israel according to all that he spake. There hath not one word fallen to the ground of all his good saying which he spake unto his servant Moses. The Lord our God be with us as he was with our fathers: let him not forsake us. And let him not destroy us from turning our heart unto him, from walking in all his ways and keeping his statutes and his judgements which he commanded our fathers. And the Lord shall be King over all the earth in that day. And there shall be one Lord and his name one, even the Lord our King: he shall save us. There is none like unto thee, O Lord. Great art thou, O Lord, and great is thy name. Heal us, O Lord, by thy power, and we shall be healed: save us, Lord, and we shall be saved: for we are thy portion and thine inheritance. And the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's sake, for the Lord hath begun to make us to be his people. And when they had all sung this hymn they departed every man to his house, glorifying God. For his is the glory, world without end. Amen.

 

[daqq]

As for Who is the too-Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, and Mighty El, Who is Immanu·El of the Isaiah prophecy from the previous passages: you will need the Torah background to understand Who is the Prophet, Who is to come, and then perhaps you might better understand Isaiah; for Who is this Son of man, and Who has believed our report, and the arm of YHWH has been revealed to Who, and Who is he that comes from Edom with garments died red from Bozrah, and Who took away Miy question marks. :chuckle:

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
15 YHWH thy Elohim will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken:
16 According to all that thou desiredst of YHWH thy Elohim in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of YHWH my Elohim, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And YHWH said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Exodus 20:19
19 וַיֹּֽאמְרוּ֙ vai·yo·me·Ru אֶל־ 'el מֹשֶׁ֔ה mo·Sheh דַּבֵּר־ dab·ber אַתָּ֥ה 'at·Tah עִמָּ֖נוּ 'im·Ma·nu וְנִשְׁמָ֑עָה ve·nish·Ma·'ah וְאַל־ ve·'al יְדַבֵּ֥ר ye·dab·Ber עִמָּ֛נוּ 'im·Ma·nu אֱלֹהִ֖ים E·lo·Him פֶּן־ pen נָמֽוּת׃ na·Mut

Exodus 20:18-22
18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19 And they said to Mosheh, You speak immanu, (with us), and we will hear: but let not speak immanu Elohim, (with us Elohim), lest we die.
20 And Moshe said to the people, Fear not: for Elohim is come to prove you, and that His reverential-fear may be before your faces, that you sin not.
21 And the people stood afar off, and Mosheh drew near unto the thick darkness where Elohim was.
22 And YHWH said to Mosheh, Thus shall you say unto bnei Yisrael, You have seen that I have spoken immachem, (with you), from the heavens.

Deuteronomy 5:22-29
22 These words YHWH spoke unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and He added no more, and he wrote them in two tables of stone and delivered them unto me.
23 And it came to pass, when you heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, though the mountain did burn with fire, that you came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders:
24 And you said, Behold, YHWH our Elohim has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that Elohim does talk with man, and he lives.
25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of YHWH our Elohim any more, then we shall die.
26 For who is there of all flesh, that has heard the voice of the Living Elohim speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?
27 You go near, and hear all that YHWH our Elohim shall say: and you shall speak unto us all that YHWH our Elohim shall speak unto you; and we will hear it, and do it.
28 And YHWH heard the voice of your words when you spoke to me; and YHWH said to me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have spoken unto you: they have well said everything that they have spoken.
29 Miy (מי) shall put in them to have such an heart as this, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Who is Miy, and Who is like El, which is to say, Miy·ka·El, Sar-sariym, ha·Sar ha·Gadol.

:Nineveh:

 

[daqq]

Of course this is referring to the Lord Jesus, as the following passage makes clear:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever." (Isa.9:6-7).​

As for Who is the too-Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, and Mighty El, Who is Immanu·El of the Isaiah prophecy from the previous passages: you will need the Torah background to understand Who is the Prophet, Who is to come, and then perhaps you might better understand Isaiah; for Who is this Son of man, and Who has believed our report, and the arm of YHWH has been revealed to Who, and Who is he that comes from Edom with garments died red from Bozrah, and Who took away Miy question marks. :chuckle:

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
15 YHWH thy Elohim will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken:
16 According to all that thou desiredst of YHWH thy Elohim in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of YHWH my Elohim, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And YHWH said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Exodus 20:19
19 וַיֹּֽאמְרוּ֙ vai·yo·me·Ru אֶל־ 'el מֹשֶׁ֔ה mo·Sheh דַּבֵּר־ dab·ber אַתָּ֥ה 'at·Tah עִמָּ֖נוּ 'im·Ma·nu וְנִשְׁמָ֑עָה ve·nish·Ma·'ah וְאַל־ ve·'al יְדַבֵּ֥ר ye·dab·Ber עִמָּ֛נוּ 'im·Ma·nu אֱלֹהִ֖ים E·lo·Him פֶּן־ pen נָמֽוּת׃ na·Mut

Exodus 20:18-22
18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19 And they said to Mosheh, You speak immanu, (with us), and we will hear: but let not speak immanu Elohim, (with us Elohim), lest we die.
20 And Moshe said to the people, Fear not: for Elohim is come to prove you, and that His reverential-fear may be before your faces, that you sin not.
21 And the people stood afar off, and Mosheh drew near unto the thick darkness where Elohim was.
22 And YHWH said to Mosheh, Thus shall you say unto bnei Yisrael, You have seen that I have spoken immachem, (with you), from the heavens.

Deuteronomy 5:22-29
22 These words YHWH spoke unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and He added no more, and he wrote them in two tables of stone and delivered them unto me.
23 And it came to pass, when you heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, though the mountain did burn with fire, that you came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders:
24 And you said, Behold, YHWH our Elohim has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that Elohim does talk with man, and he lives.
25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of YHWH our Elohim any more, then we shall die.
26 For who is there of all flesh, that has heard the voice of the Living Elohim speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?
27 You go near, and hear all that YHWH our Elohim shall say: and you shall speak unto us all that YHWH our Elohim shall speak unto you; and we will hear it, and do it.
28 And YHWH heard the voice of your words when you spoke to me; and YHWH said to me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have spoken unto you: they have well said everything that they have spoken.
29 Miy (מי) shall put in them to have such an heart as this, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Who is Miy, and Who is like El, which is to say, Miy·ka·El, Sar-sariym, ha·Sar ha·Gadol.

Therefore those who rendered the Isaiah 9:6 passage into the Greek Septuagint understood the passage, (and they were Levites and Yhudim), and they knew exactly what the passage was talking about because they understood such things from the Torah, Prophets, and Writings:

Esaias 9:5 OG LXX-Septuagint
9:5 (9:6 M/T) οτι παιδιον εγεννηθη ημιν υιος και εδοθη ημιν ου η αρχη εγενηθη επι του ωμου αυτου και καλειται το ονομα αυτου μεγαλης βουλης αγγελος εγω γαρ αξω ειρηνην επι τους αρχοντας ειρηνην και υγιειαν αυτω
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/23_009.htm

Isaiah 9:6 LXX-Septuagint Brenton Translation
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

In addition to all the previous information Who is the Megas Messenger of Daniel:

Daniel 12:1 (Hebrew M/T)
1 And at that time he who stands, Miykael ha·Sar ha·Gadol, shall stand for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation, even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be birthed-delivered, every one that shall be found written in the sefer.

Daniel 12:1 OG LXX-Septuagint
12:1 και κατα την ωραν εκεινην παρελευσεται μιχαηλ ο αγγελος ο μεγας ο εστηκως επι τους υιους του λαου σου εκεινη η ημερα θλιψεως οια ουκ εγενηθη αφ' ου εγενηθησαν εως της ημερας εκεινης και εν εκεινη τη ημερα υψωθησεται πας ο λαος ος αν ευρεθη εγγεγραμμενος εν τω βιβλιω
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/27_012.htm

μεγαλης βουλης αγγελος (Isaiah 9:6 LXX) = μιχαηλ ο αγγελος ο μεγας (Daniel 12:1 LXX)
παρελευσεται (Daniel 12:1 OG LXX) = "to pass away" (Matthew 24:35)

Matthew 24:35 W/H
35 ο ουρανος και η γη παρελευσεται οι δε λογοι μου ου μη παρελθωσιν

Matthew 24:35
35 The heavens and the earth shall pass away, (παρελευσεται - Daniel 12:1 OG LXX), but my words shall not pass away.

Therefore, as already previously stated in this thread, your brand of dispensationalist-futurist doctrine denies the full work of Messiah at Golgotha which fulfills both Torah and the Prophets, just as the Gospel accounts and the Apostolic writers all agree and duly inform us.

Daniel 12:1 OG LXX-Septuagint
12:1 και κατα την ωραν εκεινην παρελευσεται μιχαηλ ο αγγελος ο μεγας ο εστηκως επι τους υιους του λαου σου εκεινη η ημερα θλιψεως οια ουκ εγενηθη αφ' ου εγενηθησαν εως της ημερας εκεινης και εν εκεινη τη ημερα υψωθησεται πας ο λαος ος αν ευρεθη εγγεγραμμενος εν τω βιβλιω
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/27_012.htm

Daniel 12:1 OG LXX-Septuagint
12:1 And at that hour shall Miykael pass|over, (pass-away), the Megas Messenger, (ha·Sar ha·Gadol), who stands for the sons of your people: in that day shall be tribulation such as has never been from what has been until that day; and in that day all of your people shall be exalted-raised up, whosoever is found written in the scroll.

Who has heard like this: Who has seen the likes of these:
The Land brings forth in one day! The nation is born in one stroke!

:sheep:

 

[daqq]

Moreover Ananus ben Seth, the Ab Beit Din, and Yoseph Kaiaphas, the Nasiy Prince, came to fully understand these things; and when they did, Ananias repented with strong tears and deep remorse many days, mourning his own terrible deeds, being broken over what had been done to the innocent Rabbi Master Teacher Yeshua Who had spoken the Spirit of Truth. And Ananus ben Seth himself owned the great scriptorium, wherein he had many scribes working full time, the one at Yerushalem which he had acquired by way of the arms and branches of his unrighteous family enterprise temple court businesses. Yes, the great scriptorium, and many scribes . . . :chuckle:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is no reason to even argue this point any further with you because most everyone knows that YHWH is the Father and Yeshua is not the Father.

Let us look at this verse:

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1 Cor.8:6).​

In his commentary on this verse Albert Barnes says:

"One God, the Father - Whom we acknowledge as the Father of all; Author of all things; and who sustains to all his works the relation of a father. The word 'Father' here is not used as applicable to the first person of the Trinity, as distinguished from the second, but is applied to God as God; not as the Father in contradistinction from the Son, but to the divine nature as such, without reference to that distinction - the Father as distinguished from his offspring, the works that owe their origin to him" (Barnes'Notes on the Bible, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 8:6).​

The following verse speaks of the Father as the Creator of Mankind:

"But now, O LORD (JWHW), thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

Here we read that JHWH is our Father and He is the Potter who created mankind. The Apostle Paul said that it is by the Lord Jesus that all things are created:

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church" (Col.1:16-18).​

Since the Lord Jesus created all things then it is obvious that He is the Potter, JWHW the Father. That explains the Lord Jesus' words here:

"I and my Father are one" (Jn.10:30).​

The only reason that the Lord Jesus could say the following is because He is indeed JHWH the Father:

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (Jn.14:9).​

All this explains what we read here about the Lord Jesus:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

The Everlasting Father is the Mighty God, and the Mighty God is JHWH, as witnessed by what is said here:

" Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD (JHWH) of hosts, is his name" (Jer.32:18).​

 

[Zeke]

That government is within the kingdom of God Luke 17:20-21, 1Cor 3:16, Acts 17:24, Being a slave of this worlds programming and circular hamster wheel that teaches focusing on a outward solution to an inward problem, is the prison even those who profess to be enlightened are still moored to and still stuck in between being a slave and son, and mentally haven't blossomed into I'AM awareness that an Divine off spring would grasp once that mortal veil that the letter has cast over the persona has been torn 2Cor 3:6, Galatians 4:24, John 18:36.

 

[meshak]

That government is within the kingdom of God

Jesus says He is not of the world. The earthly government is of the world, friend.

Your reading of scripture is not contextual.

 

[daqq]

Let us look at this verse:

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1 Cor.8:6).​

In his commentary on this verse Albert Barnes says:

"One God, the Father - Whom we acknowledge as the Father of all; Author of all things; and who sustains to all his works the relation of a father. The word 'Father' here is not used as applicable to the first person of the Trinity, as distinguished from the second, but is applied to God as God; not as the Father in contradistinction from the Son, but to the divine nature as such, without reference to that distinction - the Father as distinguished from his offspring, the works that owe their origin to him" (Barnes'Notes on the Bible, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 8:6).​

The following verse speaks of the Father as the Creator of Mankind:

"But now, O LORD (JWHW), thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).​

Here we read that JHWH is our Father and He is the Potter who created mankind. The Apostle Paul said that it is by the Lord Jesus that all things are created:

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church" (Col.1:16-18).
​

Since the Lord Jesus created all things then it is obvious that He is the Potter, JWHW the Father. That explains the Lord Jesus' words here:

"I and my Father are one" (Jn.10:30).​

The only reason that the Lord Jesus could say the following is because He is indeed JHWH the Father:

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (Jn.14:9).​

All this explains what we read here about the Lord Jesus:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

The Everlasting Father is the Mighty God, and the Mighty God is JHWH, as witnessed by what is said here:

" Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD (JHWH) of hosts, is his name" (Jer.32:18).​

All of these things have already been argued out multiple times in multiple threads and you have already been proven to be incorrect, by the scripture itself, even by the very passages which you keep quoting. Reposting the same adulterated versions of those passages over and over again does you no good and will never change what is true into a lie. The fact that you quote your preferred slanted version of Col 1:16-18 again only shows that you are not willing to open your eyes that you might be delivered from your blindness in part. We have already been over that passage also and you rejected what it says even after it was clearly laid out for you from the Greek and from the ASV, (Col 1:16-18 ASV). There is no reason for you to continue posting things here which we have already discussed: can you not see that you are not going to turn me aside from the truth with misunderstood and incorrectly worded translations? Just because you see something in an English translation of the Bible does not mean it is "inspired" or even correctly rendered. Stop searching the scripture for things that will "prove" your presupposed doctrines and instead read and study it with an open heart and mind so as to force yourself to become pleasing to the Father. It is not about proving what you already believe to be true but rather finding out what is really true and believing that instead of what you believe now. This is a lifelong walk in Messiah the Word of the Father.

 

[daqq]

This is from one of your own threads JS:

I do not agree that Colossians 1:16 says what most people believe that it says:

Colossians 1:16 W/H
16 οτι εν αυτω εκτισθη τα παντα εν τοις ουρανοις και επι της γης τα ορατα και τα αορατα ειτε θρονοι ειτε κυριοτητες ειτε αρχαι ειτε εξουσιαι τα παντα δι αυτου και εις αυτον εκτισται

The ASV gives a perfectly acceptable and appropriate rendering:

Colossians 1:16 ASV
16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

IN (εν) and THROUGH, (δια), and through denotes the channel of an action meaning that Messiah is the VESSEL through which the creative Power of the Almighty flowed and flows and will flow. This may not sound like much but in theological terms it is gigantic because what it means is that Messiah is not the source of Power but the channel through which the Power of the Almighty created and creates everything. This is exactly the meaning and purpose of the Word of the Almighty from the very beginning.

The answer is not going to change just because you do not like it.

 

[marhig]

All of these things have already been argued out multiple times in multiple threads and you have already been proven to be incorrect, by the scripture itself, even by the very passages which you keep quoting. Reposting the same adulterated versions of those passages over and over again does you no good and will never change what is true into a lie. The fact that you quote your preferred slanted version of Col 1:16-18 again only shows that you are not willing to open your eyes that you might be delivered from your blindness in part. We have already been over that passage also and you rejected what it says even after it was clearly laid out for you from the Greek and from the ASV, (Col 1:16-18 ASV). There is no reason for you to continue posting things here which we have already discussed: can you not see that you are not going to turn me aside from the truth with misunderstood and incorrectly worded translations? Just because you see something in an English translation of the Bible does not mean it is "inspired" or even correctly rendered. Stop searching the scripture for things that will "prove" your presupposed doctrines and instead read and study it with an open heart and mind so as to force yourself to become pleasing to the Father. It is not about proving what you already believe to be true but rather finding out what is really true and believing that instead of what you believe now. This is a lifelong walk in Messiah the Word of the Father.

Hi daqq,

I remember saying on here that Jesus cannot be God, because God cannot be tempted, and Jesus was. And I then said that Jesus was tempted by Satan throughout the time that he preached, and I said again it says in the Bible that God cannot be tempted. To which the reply I got was, "Jesus was only tempted for 40 days and 40 nights, that was it, and he wasn't tempted anymore because he is God. Anyway, I was reading the Bible a couple of weeks ago and I read this

Luke 22

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me.

Jesus says that his disciples continued with him in his temptations, he didn't have any disciples in the wilderness. And Jesus continued in temptations. So he was often tempted.

God cannot be tempted, thus Jesus is not God, God is the father.

Also he says that the kingdom was appointed to him by his father, thus the father is above Christ the son.

Verse after verse after verse contradicts the trinity, yet they hold on to a few verses that they have made to try and suit their false beliefs, and not only do they do this, but they condemn others to hell for not believing as they do, even though nowhere in the Bible does it say that we are to believe in a triune God to be saved in any way.

There is one God, not three in one, one, and he is God the father, and Jesus is the Christ, the holy son of the living God.

Jesus says that God is his God, and if people truly believe him, then they should believe what he says!

 

[daqq]

Hi daqq,

I remember saying on here that Jesus cannot be God, because God cannot be tempted, and Jesus was. And I then said that Jesus was tempted by Satan throughout the time that he preached, and I said again it says in the Bible that God cannot be tempted. To which the reply I got was, "Jesus was only tempted for 40 days and 40 nights, that was it, and he wasn't tempted anymore because he is God. Anyway, I was reading the Bible a couple of weeks ago and I read this

Luke 22

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me.

Jesus says that his disciples continued with him in his temptations, he didn't have any disciples in the wilderness. And Jesus continued in temptations. So he was often tempted.

God cannot be tempted, thus Jesus is not God, God is the father.

Also he says that the kingdom was appointed to him by his father, thus the father is above Christ the son.

Verse after verse after verse contradicts the trinity, yet they hold on to a few verses that they have made to try and suit their false beliefs, and not only do they do this, but they condemn others to hell for not believing as they do, even though nowhere in the Bible does it say that we are to believe in a triune God to be saved in any way.

There is one God, not three in one, one, and he is God the father, and Jesus is the Christ, the holy son of the living God.

Jesus says that God is his God, and if people truly believe him, then they should believe what he says!

Yes, I agree for the most part: the man Yeshua was tempted throughout his ministry, and especially in the final week. We read in many places statements such as, "then came the Pharisees, tempting him", (or "testing him" depending on the various translations), then they ask him a trick question to see if they can catch him in his words and go accuse him, (whoever it happens to be, whether chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducs, Scribes, Herodians, and so on). Please note also the difference between the man Yeshua and Ruach Elohim in my understanding. The man Yeshua was a son of Elohim and declared Son of Elohim with miraculous Power at his immersion, (see Romans 1:1-4 post from previous page), and raised from the dead; but Ruach Elohim is the same Ruach Meshiah who was in the beginning with the Elohim, (Gen 1:2, John 1:1, Matt 3:16, Rom 8:9). When people do not make this distinction they end up worshiping a man as God Almighty. Even the Son of Elohim who descended from the heavens in the bodily form of a dove directs our worship to the Father and the Father alone, (for Ruach Elohim, the Son of Elohim, spoke through the man Yeshua throughout his ministry). No one has seen Elohim at any time.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We have already been over that passage also and you rejected what it says even after it was clearly laid out for you from the Greek and from the ASV, (Col 1:16-18 ASV). There is no reason for you to continue posting things here which we have already discussed: can you not see that you are not going to turn me aside from the truth with misunderstood and incorrectly worded translations?

Is this verse from the ASV the correct translation?:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands" (Heb.1:10; ASV).​

 

[marhig]

Yes, I agree for the most part: the man Yeshua was tempted throughout his ministry, and especially in the final week. We read in many places statements such as, "then came the Pharisees, tempting him", (or "testing him" depending on the various translations), then they ask him a trick question to see if they can catch him in his words and go accuse him, (whoever it happens to be, whether chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducs, Scribes, Herodians, and so on). Please note also the difference between the man Yeshua and Ruach Elohim in my understanding. The man Yeshua was a son of Elohim and declared Son of Elohim with miraculous Power at his immersion, (see Romans 1:1-4 post from previous page), and raised from the dead; but Ruach Elohim is the same Ruach Meshiah who was in the beginning with the Elohim, (Gen 1:2, John 1:1, Matt 3:16, Rom 8:9). When people do not make this distinction they end up worshiping a man as God Almighty. Even the Son of Elohim who descended from the heavens in the bodily form of a dove directs our worship to the Father and the Father alone, (for Ruach Elohim, the Son of Elohim, spoke through the man Yeshua throughout his ministry). No one has seen Elohim at any time.

We do believe a bit differently there, and the reason I say this is because it says in the Bible that Christ Jesus grew stronger in the spirit as a child.

Luke 2:40

And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

So he had the spirit of God within him from a child, he had the holy spirit with him from a baby.

I believe that Jesus became even stronger in spirit again once he denied Satan in the wilderness.

And the more we deny sin and follow him, the stronger we become in God.

I believe water emersion is a picture of being covered in the word of God, and once we are emersed in the word, and listen, obey and we have faith then God blesses us with his holy spirit.

I don't believe we are born of God by just saying "I believe". To truly believe is to do, and to do, is to obey God and do his will and follow Jesus.

We may believe differently daqq, but we also agree in much, and I could never condemn anyone, I am only flesh. And God looks at our hearts first and foremost. He wants us to have a clean and loving heart like his son. And we only achieve that through Christ by the power of the holy spirit.

I'm sure that we both agree on that.