ECT They can't be the same

G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Lazy afternoon said:
That is only your opinion, not the view of the Bible.

You expect people to believe that after Christ rose from the dead and opened their understanding and showed them Himself mentioned in the OT, (His sacrifice for sin and all) that they soon forgot until Paul came along,

when Paul himself entered into the Body of Christ the same as all others in the book of Acts.

You must think all people are stupid.

LA
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Just some. Guess which one?
 
revpete

revpete

New member
john w said:
Made up.
You were shown, chapter and verse, where the 12 had no clue that the Lord Jesus Christ would die, and be raised again, the foundation of the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV good news, as it was hid from them, until after its fulfillment, and yet, they did preach for approximately 3 years, the gospel/good news of the kingdom, during a time in which it was not revealed to them.

Stop your deception.


Nowhere in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, at least prior to the desth, burial, resurrection, will you find 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV being preached as the "good news", the basis for our salvation and justification.

Nowhere.

Consider this. You cannot preach what you do not know. You cannot believe that which you do not know.

During the Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry, the apostles and disciples had no knowledge of his impending, death, burial, and resurrection:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee" Mt. 16:21 KJV

"And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him." Mark 8:31 KJV


Comment: Obviously, Peter was attempting to prevent the Lord's death, the very death that would reconcile him! If the death, burial, and resurrection was the grounds for Peter's salvation and justification(as Paul expounds on in his epistles), why was Peter trying to prevent the very thing that would be the basis for his justification? See also John 18:10 KJV. Did he ever preach 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV ? If he had, his rebuke of the Lord would be a non-sensical reaction!

"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is
delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after thathe is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31 KJV


"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken[/B]." Luke 18:31-34 KJV

"Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day...." Luke 24:45 KJV

Read it:

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9 KJV

Comment: Notice they did not know it or understand it prior to His
death! They were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

Even after the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection, they initially did
not believe it:

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." Mt. 28:17 KJV

"And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." Mark 16:11 KJV


"And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not." Luke 24:9-11 KJV

" And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?" Luke 24:41 KJV

And what is the simple reason for 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV not being preached?:

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." 1 Cor. 2:7 KJV

Even the prophets did not understand it:

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

"Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into." 1 Peter 1:10-12 KJV

The gospel of the kingdom is not equivalent to 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV:

-death-Peter tried to prevent the Lord Jesus Christ's death, the very death that would reconcile him.
-burial
-resurrection-Peter, and the 10, initially did not believe that He rose.


And yet they were preaching, for approximately 3 years, "the gospel of the kingdom." They were clueless that He was going to die, and be raised, all while preaching "the gospel of the kingdom."

It was hid from them-and yet, they were preaching "the gospel of the kingdon" for approx. 3 years..

Again-Luke 18 KJV:

31Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.



Read it: "Then"=years after they began preaching the gospel of the kingdom, when they were clueless that He would:

-die
-be resurrected

Read it-1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV:

-death
-burial
-resurrection


Even satan did not know of the implications of the dbr:

1 Cor. 2:
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

This is part of the mystery revealed to Paul via direct revelation from the risen, ascended, glorified "Lord from heaven."

Peter, according to most rebels:" Hey everyone! Good news! The master is going to die, be raised again for our justification! Believe this "good news" I am preaching, "the gospel of the kingdom," which the master told me, and the 11 to preach, including that great "the gospel" preacher Judas, to be justified!!! Well, gotta go, as I hear the master is about to talk about His impending death, and I need to prevent this, even though it will reconcile me, and He is also talking about His resurrection, which, it turns out, I won't believe, initially, after it happens...........

Straight jacket time.
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I am not saying they had perfect understanding of dbr of The Lord. They had but a limited, imperfect, muddled, foggy grasp of this truth and needed further revelation.

They did not understand the OT Scriptures predicting the resurrection. They were like the disciples on the way to Emmaus, whom Jesus upbraided with the words, “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken” (Luke 24:25; cf. vs. 26, 27). A significant OT prediction of the resurrection is Ps. 16:10 (cf. Acts 2:24-28).

Martha knew there would be a resurrection Jn. 11:24 but did not understand Jesus when He said that her brother would rise again. She needed her limited understanding of the resurrection expanded.

The gospel that Jesus preached was a seed of the gospel that saves today but not a different one. Jesus said:

John: 10. 16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This spoke of the Gentiles.

Isaiah had predicted that the Messiah would be “a light of the Gentiles” (Isa. 42:6; cf. Isa. 49:6). Jesus declared Himself to be that light (Matt. 12:16-21). He was the light not of the Jewish nation only but of the world (John 8:12). “God so loved the world, that He gave” Jesus (ch. 3:16). At the time the Gentiles would take their place in the spiritual kingdom many of the Jews would be rejected (Matt. 8:11, 12; Rom. 11:1-26). The teaching of Jesus was explicit on this subject though it was not distinctly understood.
The true position of the Gentile in the early church was a point much discussed (see Acts 15:1).

Consider what underlies MADs teaching. You have knowledge of the mystery. This is not revealed to all but it is to you oh favoured one. 😏

This is nothing more that repackaged Gnosticism.

Pete 👤
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
revpete said:
I am not saying they had perfect understanding of dbr of The Lord. They had but a limited, imperfect, muddled, foggy grasp of this truth and needed further revelation.

They did not understand the OT Scriptures predicting the resurrection. They were like the disciples on the way to Emmaus, whom Jesus upbraided with the words, “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken” (Luke 24:25; cf. vs. 26, 27). A significant OT prediction of the resurrection is Ps. 16:10 (cf. Acts 2:24-28).

Martha knew there would be a resurrection Jn. 11:24 but did not understand Jesus when He said that her brother would rise again. She needed her limited understanding of the resurrection expanded.

The gospel that Jesus preached was a seed of the gospel that saves today but not a different one. Jesus said:

John: 10. 16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This spoke of the Gentiles.

Isaiah had predicted that the Messiah would be “a light of the Gentiles” (Isa. 42:6; cf. Isa. 49:6). Jesus declared Himself to be that light (Matt. 12:16-21). He was the light not of the Jewish nation only but of the world (John 8:12). “God so loved the world, that He gave” Jesus (ch. 3:16). At the time the Gentiles would take their place in the spiritual kingdom many of the Jews would be rejected (Matt. 8:11, 12; Rom. 11:1-26). The teaching of Jesus was explicit on this subject though it was not distinctly understood.
The true position of the Gentile in the early church was a point much discussed (see Acts 15:1).

Consider what underlies MADs teaching. You have knowledge of the mystery. This is not revealed to all but it is to you oh favoured one. 😏

This is nothing more that repackaged Gnosticism.

Pete 👤
Click to expand...


Lets not leave out the many sons of God before the flood.
 
tetelestai

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
SaulToPaul said:
Hey smarty pants, the scapegoat took away the sins of the people, and it was never killed.

Am I wrong?
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John the Baptist was smarter than you.

JTB knew the scriptures.

(Isaiah 53:5) But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

Does the above sound like the scapegoat?

Since who quote 1 Cor 15:1-4 all the time, what "scriptures" was Paul referring to when Paul said "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures"?
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
jamie said:
Those who know the law know it hasn't yet been fulfilled.

Grace began with righteous Abel.
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Those who know scripture know that Jesus Christ fulfilled all the law that needed fulfilling during his earthly ministry.


Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Did Jesus accomplish this?

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Who will stop that from happening?

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

all things must be fulfilled and they were fulfilled


Romans 2:27
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Gentiles can fulfill the law, certainly Jesus Christ fulfilled the law.

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We can fulfill the law, certainly Jesus accomplished it as well

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

When we love one another we fulfill the law

Romans 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We fulfill the law with our love

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

James 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

We do well when we love and thus fulfill the law
 
F

fzappa13

Well-known member
heir said:
That has nothing to do with the gospel of the kingdom being different from that of the gospel of Christ.
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Precisely. Because they refer to the same thing. The kingdom of God is mentioned through out the Bible. The term is singular which would indicate that there is only one. What changed with the death of Christ was that the way in was now through a faith in Christ.
Different ways into the same kingdom. The price of entrance will once again change when He returns.
 
F

fzappa13

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Hey smarty pants, the scapegoat took away the sins of the people, and it was never killed.

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

You are correct. However, both lambs were sin offerings. The one slain cleansed the temple because of the transgression of the people. The one that escaped for the people themselves. It is important to remember that all ordinances are prophetic. This scene has yet to play out but, rest assured it will.
 
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