These are NOT the same gospel

glorydaz

Well-known member
Good question.
If both saved, what would it matter which one anyone chooses?
Why even have "another" gospel at all if there was already one that saved?
Those who believed the first Gospel, would have to endure to the end to be saved. They also were to keep the commandments.

Paul's Gospel was very special. It was for the ungodly Gentiles, those who had nothing but their own consciences to rely on. God decided to give a free gift to these heathen....whosoever trusted in the Cross. We simply believe unto righteousness.

Romans 3:
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
 
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Derf

Well-known member
Oh my goodness. I've never thought of that before. :oops:

To be part of Christ's body or be His bride? You always make me think, Derf.

After much thought.......... I prefer to be where I am.....seated with Him in the heavenlies.
The Jews are required to endure to the end, and they have even more rough times ahead.
Gentile Christians don't have to endure to the end?
2 Thessalonians 1:4-5 (KJV) 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
 

Tambora

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Gentile Christians don't have to endure to the end?
2 Thessalonians 1:4-5 (KJV) 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Right.
Paul was always telling Christians to endure.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Gentile Christians don't have to endure to the end?
2 Thessalonians 1:4-5 (KJV) 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Paul isn't saying to endure to the end. He is praising them for their patience during the times they were going through. It was actually a proof (manifest token) that they were believers trusting in the Lord to take them through whatever came.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
We know those saved by grace are seated with Christ in the heavenlies....


Matt. 24:
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Acts 3
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
 

Tambora

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Not to be saved. You aren't saying that are you, Tam?
Yes, I am.


Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Our faith must endure when persecution comes our way.
You can't start worshipping Baal instead of YHWH in order to avoid persecution.
There ain't gonna be no Baal worshippers in heaven.
 

JudgeRightly

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so do you think there's any benefit for Jews to choose one gospel over the other?

Oh my goodness. I've never thought of that before. :oops:

To be part of Christ's body or be His bride? You always make me think, Derf.

After much thought.......... I prefer to be where I am.....seated with Him in the heavenlies.
The Jews are required to endure to the end, and they have even more rough times ahead.

Good question.
If both saved, what would it matter which one anyone chooses?
Why even have "another" gospel at all if there was already one that saved?

To answer Derf's question:

It's not a matter of "either A or B when presented both."

Only one option is available at a time. Either you choose option A before option A was taken away temporarily and option B was made available, or you choose option B after option A is no longer available.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Yes, I am.



Our faith must endure when persecution comes our way.
You can't start worshipping Baal instead of YHWH in order to avoid persecution.
There ain't gonna be no Baal worshippers in heaven.
So I'm wondering where you would draw the line. There must be a line that needs to be crossed.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Yes, I am.



Our faith must endure when persecution comes our way.
You can't start worshipping Baal instead of YHWH in order to avoid persecution.
There ain't gonna be no Baal worshippers in heaven.
I think of these verses when this comes up.

1 Cor. 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Cor. 5
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
 

Derf

Well-known member
To answer Derf's question:

It's not a matter of "either A or B when presented both."

Only one option is available at a time. Either you choose option A before option A was taken away temporarily and option B was made available, or you choose option B after option A is no longer available.
You've negated any argument that says they were preaching different gospels at the same time. So while Paul was preaching the gospel of grace, according to you, the 12 could not have been preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore Peter's gospel, including when he wrote his epistles, must have been the same as Paul's.

Time to close the thread.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You've negated any argument that says they were preaching different gospels at the same time. So while Paul was preaching the gospel of grace, according to you, the 12 could not have been preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore Peter's gospel, including when he wrote his epistles, must have been the same as Paul's.

Time to close the thread.
Ha....in your dreams, Derf.

Why do you think the apostles were sent to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles? If it was the same Gospel, then it wouldn't matter who they went to. Why were the apostles told to stay in Israel and continue preaching to the Jews?

Here's what I think.

I think the apostles were preaching to the tribulation Jews. That's why they had to endure to the end. They had to wait until the coming of the Lord to have their sins forgiven. And look at this. Those Jesus sent forth were preaching the Kingdom of heaven (on earth) being at hand. This is all tribulation end days stuff. Read the chapter and see if I'm not right.

Matt. 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
...Why do you think the apostles were sent to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles? If it was the same Gospel, then it wouldn't matter who they went to. Why were the apostles told to stay in Israel and continue preaching to the Jews?...
First, this was a temporary situation, history shows that besides the Apostle James who was executed in early Acts, all the others died somewhere far away from Judea, so they all did fulfill the Lord's Great Commission, eventually.

And second in answer to your question it's a matter of 'liturgy' for the lack of a less 'Catholic' sounding word.

'Practicing' Jewish people ('Jewish' in an inclusive sense, including any converted Gentiles) celebrated the Old Testament, Levitical, Temple liturgy (which included whatever the dispersion did in their synagogues for local liturgy).

When these folks believed in Christ, they began celebrating the New Testament liturgy, which was 'Mass', again, for the lack of a less 'Catholic' or Orthodox sounding word.

So the Gentiles were familiar with their own liturgies of course, which included offering sacrifices on altars to pagan idols. Both groups were coming from a different liturgical tradition, and so when Paul was dealing with the primarily formerly pagan Gentiles, he expressed himself differently from how the other Apostles expressed themselves when dealing with the circumcision, who came from the Jewish traditional liturgy. But they were both preaching the New Covenant Gospel, the Gospel of grace as you put it. Paul calls it the 'New Testament' in 1st Corinthians.

Both groups of Christians, with different backgrounds, practiced the one and same New Covenant liturgy of the Church, though the pagans were told to avoid idolatry by Paul a lot more than the other Apostles warned the Jewish converts to the Church did, since their Temple liturgy was actually ordained by God, although it had obsolesced at Christ's sacrificial death, burial and Resurrection, and Ascension. And the other NT letters directed at those coming out of the Jewish liturgical tradition(s) spent more time reminding those people of scriptures from the OT, which foretold of the NC, and which corroborate it.

fwiw, and peace.
 

Tambora

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To answer Derf's question:

It's not a matter of "either A or B when presented both."

Only one option is available at a time. Either you choose option A before option A was taken away temporarily and option B was made available, or you choose option B after option A is no longer available.
Hold the phone!

Either Peter was preaching option A for eternal salvation all along or he stopped preaching option A and started preaching option B.
 

Tambora

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So I'm wondering where you would draw the line. There must be a line that needs to be crossed.
How much clearer can the line be?
If your worship of YHWH endures no matter what persecution comes your way then you get to live eternally in the new heaven and earth.
If it doesn't endure and you cast YHWH aside to worship another god you ain't.
 

Tambora

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You've negated any argument that says they were preaching different gospels at the same time. So while Paul was preaching the gospel of grace, according to you, the 12 could not have been preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore Peter's gospel, including when he wrote his epistles, must have been the same as Paul's.

Time to close the thread.
Yeah, I don't think he thought this through if he is going to claim that Peter kept preaching his same gospel.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
How much clearer can the line be?
If your worship of YHWH endures no matter what persecution comes your way then you get to live eternally in the new heaven and earth.
If it doesn't endure and you cast YHWH aside to worship another god you ain't.
Which goes back to man being responsible for his own salvation....the keeping of it. Is that what you really believe?

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
 

Derf

Well-known member
Which goes back to man being responsible for his own salvation....the keeping of it. Is that what you really believe?

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
I don't see why this is an issue on either side of this debate. Neither Paul's nor Peter's gospel says we can worship other gods with impunity.
 
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