The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

[thelaqachisnext]

thelaqachisnext wrote


This actually proves my point. I did not say any of the things you said I said.
This is what I said.

That is nothing like this that you said I did.


Therefore, you are not telling the truth.

Bob Hill

Bob,
In replay to my post here http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1343073&postcount=1188

you said http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1343136&postcount=1190
in reply to one portion of my post -and you said this http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1343147&postcount=1191
and this- http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1343175&postcount=1193

and I replied this;

I am sorry if I got the wrong person.
I thought it was you who said you had folks come in front of a -class?- you were teaching and recant tongues, confessing they were not from the Holy Spirit.
Then when I pursued that conversation, the person on the other end became silent.
I will go see if I can find that conversation and I am sorry I thought it was you.

Now, your reply was;
Originally Posted by Bob Hill
This is not true. I have never done anything like this!!!!!

To my comment;

laqachisnext; MAD doctrine indeed forbids speaking in tongues, calling it of the devil -Bob Hill forbids speaking in tongues and has converts to MAD recant tongues before others, as he said on a thread I read once on this board.

And you said;

Dear thelaqachisnext,

I have many people in my congregation who used to speak in tongues in prior churches, but came to my church because they knew they were not real. They do not believe in tongues, now. I have asked them to demonstrate how they spoke in tongues in classes and even in church. They have done that but say that it definitely them doing it, not the Holy Spirit.

This has nothing to do with the rapture, but it is true that the gift of tongues has passed way.

So, I have said I was sorry for thinking you were the person I had 'conversed' with -but my post which I brought up from the past showed that what I thought was what you said -only that you claim “they came to your church because they because they knew they were not real”; and you had them "demonstrate" how they spoke in tongues in “classes” and even in Church…. -and they recanted publically that way, for you, at your bidding. -Those would be most interesting "classes" and "sermons" -if you have full text copies or audios of them, nothing deleted, I would be most interested in hearing the full story of your all out attack against "speaking in tongues" as "Not from the LORD"!!!

From that teaching against Tongues by you in your classes and sermons, as a gift of the Holy Spirit [and all the gifts must be taught against. by you, then, are they not? -as Paul listed them with "tongues" -the least gift], then what do you tell the people to do about the tongues they speak in [at your bidding] to demonstrate?

Bob, you are disobeying Paul of the Scripture, who says “Do not forbid to speak in tongues” and who “Spoke in tongues more than you all”; and who said “Covet earnestly to prophesy”.

So; in your classes and in your Church, when you have these people come up and demonstrate “tongues” before all, and they “Recant that they were given a gift of “tongues =languages” by the Hoy Spirit, when they formerly believed they were a gift of the Holy Spirit before they came to your Church, and that the Holy Ghost gave them the gift in the beginning -how am I claiming falsehood by saying what I said about “You”?
You did not on this board say tongues were of the devil, nor did I say you did -did I? -Jerry Shugart did, and many others of MAD doctrine whith whom I have come in contact with on forums in the past months have stated in no uncertain terms that tongues are of the devil.

So you claim they are not real -were your people delivered of a demon of “speaking in tongues? [I asked you that before and you did not reply], or do believe they have a neurological imbalance" How do you help them to get free of this nuerological imbalance?
do you send them to psychiatric care to “remove?

Tell me how you help them get rid of the “tongues”, and why you do so much teaching against “tongues” anyway, when Paul said “Do not forbid to speak in tongues”?

 

[thelaqachisnext]

I am not answering some of the questions because you have yet to provide a real answer for the 6 or so main questions I have presented a few posts ago, and what you do answer is a gross misunderstanding of what I said half of the time.

Humanoid fossils would interest me. They would have to be at least 40 foot men.

Patman, I have an interesting read for you from the biography of William cody, which you can read online in many places. I googled to get this passage and got it from this site -but all the books about him and his own book [s?] can be read online in other places;

I googled for this because of the "Anasazi" more than likely being descendents of the Anakim, in America [who were all destroyed by God in wars which went on, on the western continents, long ago, and which there are many historical records which record them].

AN INTERESTING INDIAN TRADITION
While we were in the sand hills, scouting the Niobrara country, the Pawnee Indians brought into camp, one night, some very large bones, one of which a surgeon of the expedition pronounced to be the thigh bone of a human being. The Indians claimed that the bones they had found were those of a person belonging to a race of people who a long time ago lived in this country: That there was once a race of men on the earth whose size was about three times that of an ordinary man, and they were so swift and powerful that they could run alongside of a buffalo, and taking the animal in one arm could tear off a leg and eat the meat as they walked. These giants denied the existence of a Great Spirit, and when they heard the thunder or saw the lightning they laughed at it and said they were greater than either. This so displeased the Great Spirit that he caused a great rain storm to come, and the water kept rising higher and higher so that it drove those proud and conceited giants from the low grounds to the hills, and thence to the mountains, but at last even the mountain tops were submerged, and then those mamnoth men were all drowned. After the flood had subsided, the Great Spirit came to the conclusion that he had made man too large and powerful, and that he would therefore correct the mistake by creating a race of men of smaller size and less strength. This is the reason, say the Indians, that modern men are small and not like the giants of old, and they claim that this story is a matter of Indian history, which has been handed down among them from time immemorial.
As we had no wagons with us at the time this large and heavy bone was found, we were obliged to leave it.

http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/seven/w67bbauto/w67bb15.htm

 

[Bob Hill]

Godrulz,
On a post you made on #345, you wrote

Until you consider all of Scripture infallible and authoritative, you lack credibility to be picking and chosing from the Bible. Your subjective ideas are also not objective truth.

I want you to know that I consider all of Scripture infallible and authoritative.

Because God dealt with mankind under different dispensations, though, He also changed what those in each dispensaton had to believe and do, to be saved.

In Christ,
Bob

 

[Bob Hill]

thelaqachisnext,

I have never made a big deal over tongues in my church. It was in a theology class when we were studying the gift of tongues along with other spiritual gifts that have passed away.

Since a majority of the students in the class of about 40 students had spoken in tongues at their previous church, I asked the whole class if they could do it on their own knowing that they did not believe in it any more. Everyone of those who had done it before, where willing to do it just as they had, knowing that they did not believe in it. In other words, they knew they had faked it before, and could fake it in our class. So one after one did do it. I did ask if anyone wanted to give an illustration of their fake tongue in church, and one lady volunteered.

We, basically never even talk about tongues unless someone would ask a question about tongues. This just doesn't happen though.

Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

Now, this is what I believe.

The dispensation that we are in, The Dispensation of Grace, started with the conversion of Paul in Acts 9. A comparison of Acts 22:13 and 26:18 indicates that Paul was saved when he received his sight, just as the Gentiles to whom he was sent would be saved upon receiving spiritual sight. Paul received his sight before he was baptized at Ananias’ command.

More sensational events followed the salvation of Paul. When God had separated Israel from the nations as His chosen people, He imposed upon them a designation between clean and unclean animals (Lev. 20:23-26).

Now, in a vision to Peter, the first dramatic change was made. God abrogated the distinction between clean and unclean animals in order to show that He had demoted Israel from their chosen people status (Acts 10:9-16).

However, God did not reveal to Peter the unity and equality of Jew and Gentile in the new man, the body of Christ. In fact, He didn’t show him any of the aspects of the great secret He would reveal to Paul. Most important of all, He did not show Peter the new method of salvation by faith alone apart from works. Peter simply adapted the gospel of the circumcision to his Gentile audience: “But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him”

This was the same gospel of faith plus works and endurance for salvation which our Lord Jesus Christ taught when He was speaking to Israel.

Next we see what Peter, that great leader of the Circumcision, did.
Acts 10:34-43 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ - He is Lord of all – 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Even the 11 apostles did not have what we have in this Dispensation of Grace. We have eternal security.

John 15:1-8 I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

This was the conformation to the circumcision covenant that God had made with Israel.

Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

The second change was even more startling.

The Holy Spirit showed that water baptism was no longer necessary for salvation after the body of Christ started with Paul’s conversion in Acts 9.

This was done dramatically when He fell on all the Gentiles who heard the word while Peter was still preaching, before Peter could command them to be water baptized.

Acts 10:44,45 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

The Holy Spirit’s gift, here, became the sign that would convince the circumcision believers that God had opened the door of salvation to the Gentiles.

The dispensational boundary was Paul’s conversion in Acts 9. There, we saw that Paul was sent to the Gentiles, kings and Israel.

Bob Hill

 

[jeremysdemo]

Now, this is what I believe.
Now, in a vision to Peter, the first dramatic change was made. God abrogated the distinction between clean and unclean animals in order to show that He had demoted Israel from their chosen people status (Acts 10:9-16).

This is one of the most commonly wrongly interpreted passages in the New Testament.
Let's bring the whole passage in to take a better look at it.

11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

The dream Peter had of the vessel containing the many beast of the earth, many Jewish translators agree God is referring to the Gentiles prophesying their inclusions in the New Covenant, not food.
He goes on to say.

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common

They believe He is talking about the Gentiles being cleansed, and instructing Peter not to call them common (which was how they spoke of Gentiles who converted to Judaism).
Peter confirms his interpretation of this prophecy in later in the same chapter Acts 10:44-46 When the Holy Spirit for the first time pours out onto the Gentiles, making what once was called common cleansed by the blood.

Acts 10:44-46
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

AND: What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

AMEN!

Of course later people, people who never met Jesus used these words of Peter along with another speeches of his too promote the ideas that all food was now clean, that the Sabbath was no needed to be kept, and that it was permissible to eat things sacrificed to idols.
All things Peter never condoned, neither did any of the 12 Apostle appointed by Jesus.

keep shinin'

jerm

 

[thelaqachisnext]

thelaqachisnext,

I have never made a big deal over tongues in my church. It was in a theology class when we were studying the gift of tongues along with other spiritual gifts that have passed away.

Bob Hill

-and in your church? you also said? -Why do you teach the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the Church are not for today? -you are robbing your members of edification and the intimacy of the Holy Spirit's indwelling fellowship.

Please explain how 40 people recanted tongues by speaking in tongues and claiming they had "faked" tongues -but faked it for you?

Tongues and all the other gifts of the Holy Spirit for the edification of the body of Christ will only pass away when the perfected bodies are donned by the living Church at the harvest of the Church -until then, we covet spiritual gifts and seek to edify ourselves and others.

I speak in tongues in my prayer times when I wish, by the gift of the Holy Spirit given to me, and I am edified. And I sing in tongues in my prayer time by the Gift of the Holy Spirit given to me, and I am edified.

And I have had many MAD doctrine people call me of the devil for showing them that Paul said "do not Forbid to Speak in Tongues";

MAD doctrine does forbid to speak in tongues -does it not?
Thre would never be a message in tongues allowed in your Church by the Gifting of the Holy Spirit or an interpretation of tongues in your Church by the gifting of the Holy Spirit because you do in fact forbid them -right?
You only allowed those people to recant tongues -but you would not allow someone to actually deliver a message to your followers in tongues and the interpretation to that message without stopping it -in fact -no one would dare do that in your church, would they?

So you forbid speaking in tongues, against Paul's command.

 

[Bob Hill]

Now, we see the order of the baptisms was reversed.

Peter commanded water baptism after the Holy Spirit already baptized them. Now, the Holy Spirit’s baptism was the one necessary for salvation.

Water baptism became secondary for the first time.

We’re not even sure that God wanted these new Christians baptized.

Peter did a number of things here only because the Lord had previously commanded him to do them.

Why did these changes take place? When Paul was converted, God committed to him a new stewardship, The Dispensation of the Mystery, and a new gospel, the uncircumcision gospel.

So, what must they now do to be saved? Act 16:31 “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[thelaqachisnext]

The second change was even more startling.

The Holy Spirit showed that water baptism was no longer necessary for salvation after the body of Christ started with Paul’s conversion in Acts 9.

This was done dramatically when He fell on all the Gentiles who heard the word while Peter was still preaching, before Peter could command them to be water baptized.

Acts 10:44,45 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

The Holy Spirit’s gift, here, became the sign that would convince the circumcision believers that God had opened the door of salvation to the Gentiles.

The dispensational boundary was Paul’s conversion in Acts 9. There, we saw that Paul was sent to the Gentiles, kings and Israel.

Bob Hill

Ananais gave Saul the message from the LORD Jesus that Saul was to bear "His Name" before Gentiles, Israel, and kings; and commanded Paul to rise and wash away his sins in water baptism, calling on the name of the LORD.
Paul of Scripture then was baptized in the Holy Spirit -and Paul of Scripture preached the Faith til his death, that he once tried to destroy.

Saul was a raving maniac of hate and deeply convicted by Stephen's sermon at Stephen's death, of Jesus Christ being the promised Messiah of the OT and of Enoch -which Paul was a student of, and whom Paul's 'unique' [so called] teachings are from, on the Son of Man as the Mystery hidden in God from the beginning until His revealing "to the elect" [which is His coming in flesh].
.
Saul "turned the heel" to the "Goads" of the Law and the prophets which were pricking his conscience since Stephen's death.

Saul was saved, deeply humbled, blinded physically, submitted to water baptism in the name of Jesus -and by that His sins were cast away [into Sheol, the Abyss, on Jesus the Scapegoat who bore them there]- and baptized with the Holy Ghost of Glory/Fire and of Enduement with Power from on high, and made to suffer many things for the Name he once tried to destroy.

PS:
Look what you have left out, Bob Hill, All things Saul was to do -"ever" were told him by Ananais and he rose and washed away his sins in water baptism -

Acts 22
6 "Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. 7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?'
8 So I answered, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said to me, 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.'
9 "And those who were with me indeed saw the light *and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me.

10 So I said, 'What shall I do, Lord?' And the Lord said to me, 'Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.'

11 And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus.

12 "Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there,
13 came to me; and he stood and said to me, 'Brother Saul, receive your sight.' And at that same hour I looked up at him.
14 Then he said, 'The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.
15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.
16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

 

[thelaqachisnext]

So, what must they now do to be saved? Act 16:31 “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

MAD doctrine willfully leaves so much out! -look at what you have left out, Bob Hill-
Then they spake unto him "the Word of the LORD" =" be baptized in water for the remission of your sins"
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act 16:32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [their] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

 

[Bob Hill]

thelaqachisnext,

You have no idea how I handle things. We have a very open church. We are very open to each other.

The people who faked their tongues in our theology class, all, on their own accord faked what they no longer believed.

They had quit tongues speaking churches because they came to the conclusion, themselves, that they had been taught to fake it.

I bet you have even helped people fake it too.

That's what most of my people who demonstrated their false tongues for us, told us they had been almost compelled to do.

So much for that, brother.
Love in Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

During this time, there were some confusing events that happened.

Paul circumcised Timothy shortly before he wrote the epistle to the Galatians.

Yet, he severely criticized those who were being influenced by the Judaizers who wanted them to be circumcised for salvation.

Later, Paul even became ceremonially purified and paid for the sacrifices for four men who had a Jewish vow as well as himself. Yet, Paul had already written Galatians, Thessalonians, Corinthians, and Romans. He knew he was not under the law.

There were other things Paul did, recorded in Acts, which passed away. These things had to do with Israel. But Paul did not address each thing explicitly and say it passed away. Some of these things were: raising the dead, exorcism, healing the sick, being bit by a viper without being harmed.

They would cease just as water baptism would cease.

These signs were related to Israel. God was in the process of showing Israel they had been set aside.

God would issue a final declaration to Israel, showing Israel they had been set aside in Acts 28:28 “Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!”.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[patman]

thelaqachisnext,

You have no idea how I handle things. We have a very open church. We are very open to each other.

The people who faked their tongues in our theology class, all, on their own accord faked what they no longer believed.

They had quit tongues speaking churches because they came to the conclusion, themselves, that they had been taught to fake it.

I bet you have even helped people fake it too.

That's what most of my people who demonstrated their false tongues for us, told us they had been almost compelled to do.

So much for that, brother.
Love in Christ,
Bob Hill

:first:

 

[jeremysdemo]

The people who faked their tongues in our theology class, all, on their own accord faked what they no longer believed.

They had quit tongues speaking churches because they came to the conclusion, themselves, that they had been taught to fake it.

I bet you have even helped people fake it too.

This reminds me of a worship group that tried to get me to join a while back...

Their motto was "Fake it till ya make it"

It is a shame people have to fake things, and then instead of actually following the Lord close enough to be able to do them, try and find a doctrine that explains their lack of Spirit.

I still think it's just better to abandon all these concepts of men, and follow Jesus instead.

keep shinin'

jerm

 

[Bob Hill]

Soon, Paul learned that water baptism was not part of his commission. 1 Cor. 1:12-17 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

He no longer baptized. But we must remember that baptism was an integral part of the circumcision apostles’ commission (Mat. 28:18-20; Mk. 16:15-18).

After Paul was in the ministry for awhile, God inspired him to write to Corinth in 1 Corinthians 1:12-17 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

“By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body”. So, even in the dispensation of grace there were two baptisms for a while.

Then, we see that as physical circumcision gave way to spiritual circumcision, “made without hands,” in spite of Acts 16:1-3, water baptism gave way to spiritual baptism, “through the faith of the operation of God” (Col. 2:11,12), in spite of Acts 16:15,31-34, and 1 Cor. 1:14-16.

In Christ our Redeemer,
Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

Why did water baptism give way to spiritual baptism? It was because God set Israel aside in Acts 7 (Rom. 11:11,25; Acts 28:28) when Christ stood in judgment (Isa. 3:13) at the stoning of Stephen.

Part of Paul’s ministry from then on, was to show his people, Israel, that God had now set them aside for the time being.

That is why the Corinthian church spoke in tongues so much.

Their meeting place wall was contiguous with the Jewish synagogue.

They spoke in tongues in judgment upon the unbelieving Jews next door in fulfillment of the prophecy in Isaiah 28.

Paul wrote to the Corinthians about the issue.
1 Cor. 14:21-25 In the law it is written: “With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,” says the Lord. 22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. 25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

We are sealed and cannot lose our salvation.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[thelaqachisnext]

thelaqachisnext,

You have no idea how I handle things. We have a very open church. We are very open to each other.

The people who faked their tongues in our theology class, all, on their own accord faked what they no longer believed.

They had quit tongues speaking churches because they came to the conclusion, themselves, that they had been taught to fake it.

I bet you have even helped people fake it too.

That's what most of my people who demonstrated their false tongues for us, told us they had been almost compelled to do.

So much for that, brother.
Love in Christ,
Bob Hill

No I was not taught to"fake" tongues!!!

[I just saw that you accused me of 'helping people fake tongues! -I have never in my life done such a thing! No one has to fake the Baptism with the Holy Spirit and I have not even ever been present when anyone I witnessed to was baptized with the Holy Spirit -I've shared Jesus Christ and told people whom I've had anything to do with their accepting Jesus as LORD to get water baptized and read the Word -the Word-the Word! -Jesus takes care of the rest fi they do that; and I do not believe every one speaks in tongues!!!]


I was baptized with "glory" from above falling on me from above while I was in my own home one day when I was actually speaking on the phone to a neighbor, witnessing the LORD Jesus Christ to her [a common thing I always got around to in every conversation with her -and with everyone].
He literally came upon me from above and anointed me all the way from my head to my toes. I didn't know what to do, so I just walked about saying "Glory" because I believed I would speak in tongues when I was "baptized with water and then with the Holy Spirit" and since I was not baptized in water I thought there was more to come!!!

-I had hurriedly left the phone converation precisely because I "saw" His Spirit descending in my "spiritual eyes". It was "Boom! -Glory all the way from my head to my toes.

I Had an independent Baptist fundamentalist Rescue Mission preacher as a youth, who spoke in tongues when he preached sometimes -under a glorious anointing of the Holy Spirit. While he preached he would sometimes just speak in tongues and then preach wonderfully about Jesus Christ [which preaching was under the interpretation for his speaking while preaching under such anointing -he never spoke in tongues long and he would preach so hard in my language about my need for Jesus and he would shine so that I thought it must be his bald head -in my youthful trying to figure out why he shone.

I didn't know his denomination taught tongues had ceased nor did I know that anyone in the world denied tongues because I heard a man of God preach Jesus Christ so hard that I got saved under conviction almost every Sunday -but no one told me how to live it at home and so under His preaching I'd be convinced of my need to be saved and go up at his altar calls again, and again.
I was not truly saved for many more years, but when I was saved I did not know people taught against th gifts of the Spirit which I read in my Bible which I began to read immediately right through.
I wanted to be baptized in water immediately for I read the Word and He said be baptized, but could find no preachers who were willing to baptize me as fast as I wanted to get in that water and make a public confession of my LORD's saving me in His name.
I knew I would be baptized in the Holy Spirit after I was baptized in water, cause I read the Word, and that was finally scheduled by the Pastor at the Church the LORD had placed me in [6 weeks after I was saved -far too long to wait!]; meantime, He fell on me that day in my home and I did not know what to do but walk around in the glory.

Then one night a man spoke at a Church I was often visiting on friday open mike and fellowship nights, and he told of someone being baptized in the Holy Spirit before he was baptized in water and spoke of Cornelius....I went to the altar at prayer time determined to get all Jesus had for me and someone asked me what my prayer need was, and I said I wanted to be baptized in the Holy Ghost---the person was going to pray for me and when she began to do so, by laying hands on me, she stopped and said 'sister the LORD has already baptized you with His spirit" -I then understood that Which I had received that day in my living room was the "Baptism with the Holy Spirit" and I was so happy that I did begin to loudly praise Him with the language He gave me -and I praised Him all the way home and I kept on praising him with great joy and seeking Him daily as I went through His word -and I still praise Him thirty seven years = later!

Not long after that, I was praying in my room and a wave of absolute love swept over me like an ocean wave, and my tongue was anointed as if with fire, and I praised Him and praised Him in the language He gave me, with great joy.

When I was fasting four days for a special need for someone else, not long after, I passed a fleshy mass of soft tissue growth from my bladder, in some pain -and I praised Him and praised Him for His deliverance from that thing -whatever it was.

Later I was listening to a radio preacher one day who spoke of healing and I believed God that moment for a healing for my body of a feminine problem and the radio preacher mentioned someone who had a female condition and the LORD was healing it. I believed he gave a word of knowledge for me and that I was healed.
I went about my housework and as I was loading the washer the devil said "there must have been thousands of women with female problems listening to him" and you aren't the one he spoke to".
I thought "Oh! -but immediately recognized that thought as from the devil and said; "Get thee behind me satan! Jesus knew I was listening and I needed that and it was for me".-and I slammed that washer lid down and knew I had my healing from the LORD Jesus!
By the time my husband got home from work at 12:30 PM that eve, I was completely healed of all symptoms of that chronic problem that had plagued me.

And on and on I could go...It's just been a "walk with the LORD" all these years, in company with He and the Father and the Holy Spirit; which I would never deny His name and power for all the gold in the world or all the rep points I could rack up on theologyonline as a trade off for denying His wonderful name and glorious gifts to me, for

 

[Bob Hill]

God used Paul to pronounce to the Jews in Rome that Israel had been set aside. This occurred in Acts 28:28.

After this, the baptisms imposed on Israel, being fleshly ordinances, were set aside until God would resume dealing with Israel in the tribulation.

For instance, baptism will be necessary for salvation when Peter’s epistles are again directly applicable in the tribulation period.

We must look at 1 Peter 3:20,21 closely. Verse 20 shows us that the ark and the flood of water were a type.

Peter then wrote, “There is also an antitype which now saves us, namely baptism.”

1 Peter 3:20,21 eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Yes, his message was, “Baptism ‘now saves us.’”

Then he explained away the possible confusion that the water baptism would be for the removal of the outward filth of the body as in Mark 7:3-5.
The word in Mark 7:4 is baptiswntai, baptize. “They do not eat unless they wash [baptize].”

This outward ritual of 1 Peter 3 in obedience to God, was essential to perform the inner cleansing of sin in accordance with the principles of the circumcision covenant (Numbers 19).

From the time of Israel’s fall in Acts 7, the book of Acts relates how Israel was shown more and more that they had been set aside by God.

Let me reiterate. I think this is why the Corinthian church spoke in tongues so much. The church “bordered on,” was “contiguous to,” the Jewish synagogue.

The Gentiles’ speaking in tongues was God’s judgment upon unbelieving Jews next door.

Please read 1 Cor 14:22,23 in light of the whole chapter of Isaiah 28.
1 Cor. 14:22,23 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

thelaqachisnext,

Your witness is very compelling. Thank you for sharing that with me.

Bob Hill