The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

[thelaqachisnext]

1 Cor 13:8-10 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

Bob Hill

The perfect is the immortal body -and we don’t have it cause it hasn’t come.
Jesus rose "perfected" after three days -"immortal"- whole/complete in body, Spirit, and soul.
the law never made anyone "perfect" in wholeness of body, Spirit and soul, as it was only the dress rehearsal and not the Acceptable Year ever -unti lHe came who ended the remembrance of sin in Adam which separates us from the Father.
Now we who are cleansed in soul by the Atonement can be born again into His One Living Spirit of adoption and we then will be regenerated in the "perfected" living "sons of God" state -like Him.


It is the Spirit of regeneration and the body of adoption which our soul, cleansed by the blood on the Mercy Seat body of Christ gets new, "regenerated", in the image of the Beloved Son of God, which is the "perfect which is to come".
We still know in part, and knowledge has not passed away and we do not know as we are known. We still see as through a glass darkly -but then face to face.

It is false to teach the perfect has come, when it has not come and we do not see "face to face" yet -which Lighthouse just emphasized in his post to me to try to prove his own point about something [but he was wrong].
and we need the gifts of the Spirit to edify and be edified, while we walk in these Adam flesh bodies, and we need miracles of deliverance and healings, and we need words of wisdom and words of knowledge, and we need prophesy to edify us until that Day, when we shall know as we are known.
.

 

[thelaqachisnext]

The Holy Spirit does the baptism of believers into the Body of Christ in this Dispensation of Grace.

1 Cor 12:12,13 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free - and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

In Christ my Saviour,
Bob Hill

Yes -and that One Spirit is the Spirit of Adoption, it is not the "One Baptism" of water which we submit these dead Adam nature bodies to in obedience to Jesus Christ, as a sign of our faith in His promise that we died wioth Him, were buried with Him, and in Spirit are risen in Him and in body shall rise in Him.

MAD leaves so much out!

The Adoption is not the Glory of the Father -it is how we can get the glory of the Father; and neither the Glory nor the Adoption are the enduement with Power from on high; if we are adopted we get the share of glory He sends, as a downpayment of that which is to come, since Pentecost, to all who call on His name and repent and are water baptized.
.Then the Enduement with power from on high which is given the adopted sons is not ever a once for all deal, either, as we need to be continually being filled -as the Disciples were again, in Acts 4, and they had been endued with Power on Pentecost, when they got the fire and the glory as the members of His body temple [which they were made members of by the Spirit of regeneration the evening after Jesus rose from the Dead, for the evening of the Day He rose and Ascended to the Father, "leading captivity captive" by taking the POW's from hell to paradise on high, as the "just men made perfect in Spirit" who are part of Zion above, then Jesus descended and, meeting the disciples, He breathed on them, and commanded them to "Receive the Holy Ghost" -of regeneration.

They were already born again as New Man stones of the House [the second temple not made with hands, which is the second human being nature] which Jesus is Firstborn of, before He received the Glory, on Pentecost above, and sent a measure to his own co-heirs.

 

[thelaqachisnext]

I do not believe tongues are still active in the Body of Christ today, but they certainly were in the beginning of Paul's ministry, but I would never condemn someone who spoke in tongues. I certainly try to show them what the Bible says about tongues for today, but I would only do this if they wanted to talk about it. We shouldn't be arrogant in our relationship with others.

Bob Hill

And Paul said "Do not forbid to speak in tongues"; and "I speak in tongues more than you all"; and "Covet to prophesy".
So, Paul of Scripture is a Pentecostal, Tongues speaking, Tongues singing, water baptized, born again Believer in Jesus Christ, who is a Jew, circumcised, and who circumcised Timothy, his own "son in the faith', because Timothy was half Jew, therefore Paul considered him "of the circumcision" and Paul of Scripture said "do not become uncircumcised if you are called circumcised", and "do not become circumcised if you are called uncircumcised".
And Paul of Scripture took vows and offered sacrifices after he was a Pentecostal water Baptized born again Jew, because he never forsook Moses.

Paul of Scripture is not the paul of MAD doctrine, and the paul of MAD is a 'pseudo paul' invented by men who made up things not even based on the Foundation of the Word, according to the true heavenly pattern of all things delivered to Moses to copy, which are the living oracles of God's One Plan to Ransom the earth and to redeem the seed of Adam by the Adoption into the Kinsman/Redeemer's One Living Spirit.

 

[thelaqachisnext]

This is not true. I have never done anything like this!!!!!


Bob Hill

Okay, Bob,
I found the thread and the posts which caused me to say what I said.

laqachisnext; MAD doctrine indeed forbids speaking in tongues, calling it of the devil -Bob Hill forbids speaking in tongues and has converts to MAD recant tongues before others, as he said on a thread I read once on this board.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1185729&postcount=114

Dear thelaqachisnext,

I have many people in my congregation who used to speak in tongues in prior churches, but came to my church because they knew they were not real. They do not believe in tongues, now. I have asked them to demonstrate how they spoke in tongues in classes and even in church. They have done that but say that it definitely them doing it, not the Holy Spirit.

This has nothing to do with the rapture, but it is true that the gift of tongues has passed way.

Bob Hill

my reply -which you did not answer.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1186100&postcount=120

 

[jeremysdemo]

Never mind,
do you have any evidence to support you hypothesis' .......as I asked for, or are you just stinging me along?

BTW there is historic records that state Paul was gentile who converted to Judaism, hence he was Jewish in that sense since Jewish was speaking of his religious affiliation.

keep shinin'

jerm

 

[thelaqachisnext]

Never mind you obviously have no evidence to support you hypothesis' .......

BTW there is historic records that state Paul was gentile who converted to Judaism, hence he was Jewish in that sense since Jewish was speaking of his religious affiliation.

keep shinin'

jerm

I'm sorry,
I did not ignore you, I just hadn't time to do justice to your post. I have several other things going and they all take time...but I'll return.

As to Paul:
Historical records, meet Bible Scriptures

Paul's testimony;
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.

Phl 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

 

[jeremysdemo]

I'm sorry,
I did not ignore you, I just hadn't time to do justice to your post. I have several other things going and they all take time...but I'll return.

As to Paul:
Historical records, meet Bible Scriptures

Paul's testimony;
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.

Phl 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

The only problem I have with this is it is a singular witness.
Anyone can write their own history of themselves in their favor, doesn't make it necessarily true, especially when you have several others that are not that person contradicting it.
Certainly leaves a door open for investigation.
That is of course if one is truly interested in knowing the truth of the matter.
If not I suppose they could take just one single persons own claim about themselves and believe that.
People can believe whatever they can convince themselves of I suppose.

In any event there are passages in Revelation that commend churches in Asia for not following false apostles who claimed to be Jews but were not. (Ephesian)
Certainly something I would want to investigate and take ALL the accounts into consideration before making a decision on.



keep shinin'

jerm

 

[Lighthouse]

[You who claim to be "grace" believers are all so 'gracious' [not!] with your own mouths, here, calling people "raca" [idiots] and such lovely things as "loud mouth", 'liars' -and so on and so forth.]
~~~~~

The one from whom all grace flows called people worse things than idiot.

MAD denies the work of the Trinity in Salvation by claiming that the "one LORD One Faith, one baptism [of which Paul spoke of in one place] excludes the work of the Son, Father, and Holy Spirit in their three Holy Spirit "baptisms"; Regeneration; Glory; and enduement with Power from on high; and the Glory is only given in a measure to those who are regenerated in the Son's Living Spirit -for He sends a share of the inheritance to His sons, adopted into His "One" Living Spirit, which is a downpayment of the glory to come; and the power is only given to the sons by adoption to act in the name of the Beloved Son of God on His behalf, while walking through this life being witnesses to Him. -but unright division is common to MAD doctrine like that, for they do not compare Scripture with Scripture to get the sense of meaning.

The Holy Spirit only needs to baptize us once, and all three; regeneration, glory and endowment with power; are taken care of. By the way, wher did you get the word "endument?"

One believes, one confesses, one is joined to the Spirit of the New Man by the Spirit of adoption; and one obeys Him and is water baptized. "One baptism" is water, only, which you must submit to in Jesus' Name, or else you are in rebellion to His commands, not doing the things He says, and by what right then, can you to call Him "LORD and MASTER", He says, if you do not do the things He says?

You can't back that up [water baptisim for salvation, now] with Scripture at all. Nor can you back up that MAD denies our joining to the Holy Spirit.

And, by the way, when did Jesus command anyone to be baptized? I know He commanded the disciples to baptize others, but where is it recorded that He commanded anyone to be baptized?

MAD dismisses the New Birth as the Regeneration of Spirit into the One New Man's Living Spirit, and the downpayment of the glory of the Father to come, and the enduement with Power from on high, in their doctrine of the "one baptism, which 'one baptism' of Paul's particular passage is water baptism, and is the sign of a born again Believer, who lives long enough after salvation into the Name of Jesus to obey His will; and is a sign in and to the 'dead flesh' we wear, called Adam, of our faith in the resurrection in the newness of Life, immortal as Jesus Christ is; and is a sign as circumcision is the sign in the flesh of a Jewish male of all Adam seed being cut off in the 8th day of creation.

Outside of claiming Paul was speaking of water baptism, MAD does not deny anything you just said.

[quoe]To reply to your post, I had to write a longer one, which is for the benefit of those who may be tempted to be seduced by MAD dcotrine; as you declare you do not read my posts, perhaps others can see biblical contradiction to the doctrines espoused in MAD and go search these things for themselves in Scripture.[/quote]
I just don't have time to go through such a long post, and respond to it. That is the only reason I didn't read it.

First; you gave a Scripture that does not apply to me; I was never under the Law, so the Scripture that “ye are no longer under the Law” is not about Moses and me, so I asked if it applied to you, as MAD does make much of ‘rightly dividing‘ and not taking to themselves things said to others which do not apply to them [so they say, but nothing Paul wrote was written to any of you today, as his letters were specifically directed to named recipients. of whom you are not any, of you, of].

Paul wrote to the Body of Christ. We are the Body of Christ. And to say that you were never under the law is complete denial of what the Bible says. Because when Paul wrote that, he was writing to people who were not Jews.:dunce::duh:

If you had learned the ABC’s of the Oracles you would know that Christ’s sacrifice was the “Acceptable Year of the LORD” which ended the Yearly Atonement offering made as a dress rehearsal by the High Priest, serving in the office of Christ, which was for all in Adam -offered on behalf of the Jews first, and also to the Gentiles.
If you had learned the Living Oracles' lessons you would have known that only on the basis of the Yearly Atonement was anything any person in Israel offered before YHWH through the rest of the year according to Moses, accepted -by faith- because of the Yearly “rollover” dress rehearsal of the Final one to come.

When have I ever denied this? And who are these "Oracles" you speak of?

Paul circumcised Timothy, a Believing Half Jew, to prove he had not departed from Moses. -And Timothy penned Hebrews, possibly for Paul, for Timothy and Paul were in prison together.

Where is your proof that Timothy wrote Hebrews?.

Then Lydia heard Paul attended to the things he said and was water baptized -just like Paul!

And?

Then the Jailor believed on the LORD and was water baptized -just like Paul after Paul spoke the Word of the LORD to him and his house [repent and be water baptized];

Paul told them to be water baptized? Do you have the Scripture to back that up?

Then in Corinth Paul preached and the ruler of the Synagogue was saved and Paul baptized him in water -just like Paul was water baptized- and many others of the Corinthians believed and were water baptized -but Paul said he didn’t do the actual dunking of them all, when writing them later, so those with Paul did the water baptizing;

Does the scripture say it was with water?

Then Paul took a Nazarite vow and left to keep a Jewish feast, according to Moses, which Paul never departed from, as a circumcised Jew; and he stopped in Ephesus.

And?

going back through Ephesus, Paul finds some Believers who had not received the Holy Ghost -third Person- and he questions what water baptism they were water baptized ‘unto’ -in what name? Paul knows those baptized in water hear of the Holy Ghost, as the Third Person of the One YHWH; so Paul baptizes about twelve men in water, and then prays for them to receive the Spirit of enduement with Power -third Person in YHWH.

He does not say water!

Later, after a third trip, Paul hurries on by Ephesus to be in Jerusalem to keep Pentecost; according to Moses which Paul never departed from all his life;

And?

He sends to Ephesus for the elders to come to him and gives them his parting words;
[which shows Paul was in the Way of Faith once delivered to the Saints until the end, and never departed to another secret gnostic unknown, MAD doctrine thing].

:squint:

What was the mystery Paul said was revealed to him?

In the parting sermon Paul never once repented for water baptizing the first men of Ephesus, and declared he had declared to them the whole council of God -which included water baptism.

Why would he repent of water baptizing anyone?

then, at Jerusalem, Paul proves he has not departed from Moses, and performs his vow and offers the sacrifices according to Moses.

What sacrifices? Jesus was the final sacrifice.

then Paul again tells that He saw the LORD -had the Revelation of Him- but that the disciples gave him his instructions for the life of service to the LORD he was to live, in Damascus: all things Paul was to do were told him in Damascus by the Disciples there! Only the Revelation of the LORD was given to Him by the LORD Himself.

Scripture please.

And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt [there],
MAD doctrine indeed forbids speaking in tongues, calling it of the devil -Bob Hill forbids speaking in tongues and has converts to MAD recant tongues before others, as he said on a thread I read once on this board.

You are a liar!

Paul never recanted Tongues! and he sang in tongues and prayed in tongues; Paul gives instructions to the Church on tongues and ends with the command to not forbid to speak in tongues.
Paul says he prays in tongues and sings in tongues -privately, and is edified in his spirit by doing so.

I never said he recanted.

I may be MAD, but you sir are mad.*















*insane, crazy, nuts, etc.

 

[Lighthouse]

The only reason prophecies would fail is because they are from false prophets.
The only reason tongues would cease is because there is no Spirit in the people.
As far as knowledge vanishing away haven't seen that happen yet either... all the knowledge is still there however people willingness to seek it out on their own has greatly decreased.

What part of "But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away," do you not understand? Even if it has not yet ceased, when it does, it will be because of this, not because there is no Spirit in the people.:doh:

 

[Lighthouse]

The only problem I have with this is it is a singular witness.
Anyone can write their own history of themselves in their favor, doesn't make it necessarily true, especially when you have several others that are not that person contradicting it.
Certainly leaves a door open for investigation.
That is of course if one is truly interested in knowing the truth of the matter.
If not I suppose they could take just one single persons own claim about themselves and believe that.
People can believe whatever they can convince themselves of I suppose.

In any event there are passages in Revelation that commend churches in Asia for not following false apostles who claimed to be Jews but were not. (Ephesian)
Certainly something I would want to investigate and take ALL the accounts into consideration before making a decision on.



keep shinin'

jerm

I think laqach and I can at least agree that you are a fool, for denying Scripture.

 

[jeremysdemo]

thelaqachisnext,

Did you hear something? :aimiel:

A fly or bee buzzin' by? :dead:

A sour grape rolling on to the floor? :sozo2:

Nope,

must have been the wind..... :WA:


keep shinin'

jerm

 

[thelaqachisnext]

The one from whom all grace flows called people worse things than idiot.

The Holy Spirit only needs to baptize us once, and all three; regeneration, glory and endowment with power; are taken care of. By the way, wher did you get the word "endument?"

You can't back that up [water baptisim for salvation, now] with Scripture at all. Nor can you back up that MAD denies our joining to the Holy Spirit.

And, by the way, when did Jesus command anyone to be baptized? I know He commanded the disciples to baptize others, but where is it recorded that He commanded anyone to be baptized?

Outside of claiming Paul was speaking of water baptism, MAD does not deny anything you just said.
...
I just don't have time to go through such a long post, and respond to it. That is the only reason I didn't read it.


Paul wrote to the Body of Christ. We are the Body of Christ. And to say that you were never under the law is complete denial of what the Bible says. Because when Paul wrote that, he was writing to people who were not Jews.:dunce::duh:

When have I ever denied this? And who are these "Oracles" you speak of?

Where is your proof that Timothy wrote Hebrews?.

And?

Paul told them to be water baptized? Do you have the Scripture to back that up?

Does the scripture say it was with water?

And?

He does not say water!

And?

:squint:

What was the mystery Paul said was revealed to him?

Why would he repent of water baptizing anyone?

What sacrifices? Jesus was the final sacrifice.

Scripture please.

You are a liar!

I never said he recanted.

I may be MAD, but you sir are mad.*

*insane, crazy, nuts, etc.

You are not He, and His command is to let your words be yes and no, and to call no man an idiot "raca".

And I already posted the scripture from Hebrews where Timothy said he, himself wrote Hebrews -penned it- for another, and probably for Paul, and where Paul circumcised Tinothy.

I am a she -a female born in Adamkind, born again into the Israel-kind's Living Spirit, and waiting for my adoption body; and I am a wife of 43 years to one husband, a mother of seven, and a grandmother of more than a dozen.

I call no man a fool but those who say there is no God.

You asked me many of the same questions -or remarked on many things- which I replied to you with Scripture already -at least go back and read my replies, as this could circle unendingly with you making claims and statements and asking questions which I repeatedly answer which you repeatedly treat as if I did not reply.

And I am not a liar; I posted the link above where Bob Hill had people come in front of a class and recant tongues as being from the Holy Spirit, and they recanted His gift to them when they formerly believed on the name of Jesus and were baptized in “good faith” by the Holy Ghost, and they “spoke in tongues“.

To deny the Name of the LORD is blasphemy. To receive gifts from the Spirit of God and then attribute those gifts to the devil -which many MAD doctrine people do most certainly attribute the gift of tongues to devils, as Jerry Shugart did, in a prior post, and many more of them have said the same to me in other forums- or to attribute the gift they received to a neurological disturbance of the mind of people, as Bob Hill’s recanters did [at least the ones he admitted he had come up front and recant and confess they did not receive the Holy Ghost and did not speak in tongues by His gift], is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; because Jesus said he would not give a serpent to those who ask for the Holy Ghost.

If one claims Jesus Christ is their LORD and receives from the Holy Ghost enduement with power from on high and gifts of His Spirit and then claims they or the devil were responsible for the power and the gifts they received when they formerly confessed Jesus Christ’s name as their LORD, then they have blashamed the Spirit of God.

Luk 11:9¶And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

The Enduement with power from on high is the baptism given to Believers by the third Person in the One YHWH; It is the promise of the Father for those who are already adopted into the Beloved Son's name.

Luk 24:44 ¶And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins [water baptism] should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luk 24:48And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Paul's companion, Luke, wrote of that day of the Pentecost, when the enduement with Power and the Glory/Fire of the Father was sent to the New Man creation temple of God below, when the New Man creaton temple of God sat down above, as the Firstborn of earth [the Everlasting Father of the New Creation of human beings], and received the Glory "without measure" as the Firstborn of earth, the High King and High Priest of earth, the second 'Isyh created to be Kinsman/Redeemer to bring the many sons to the Glory of the Father, to be a house for His Glory's indwelling [as He went to the cross to do for us, as He said in John 14:1-3].

Act 1:1¶The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Act 1:4¶And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Act 1:8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Act 2:1¶And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Act 2:16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


This part has not happened in these last days -yet.
Act 2:19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

But this is in effect until the end of the age;

Act 2:21And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act 2:32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Act 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ -not the name of John the Baptist, is now commanded by Jesus Christ; it is His Authority in which His Apostles command the repentant to be water baptized, .

Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 2:40¶And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Filled with the “Holy Ghost” =endued with the power from on high again -a second time, for we are to be "being continually filled" -as needed for service to His name;

Act 4:23¶And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou [art] God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Act 4:33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

 

[Lighthouse]

You are not He, and His command is to let your words be yes and no, and to call no man an idiot "raca".

Where?

And I already posted the scripture from Hebrews where Timothy said he, himself wrote Hebrews -penned it- for another, and probably for Paul, and where Paul circumcised Tinothy.

No you didn't. You posted nothing to show that Timothy wrote Hebrews. As for Paul circumcising Timothy, so what?! I never said he didn't.

I am a she -a female born in Adamkind, born again into the Israel-kind's Living Spirit, and waiting for my adoption body; and I am a wife of 43 years to one husband, a mother of seven, and a grandmother of more than a dozen.

I apologize for calling you "sir."

I call no man a fool but those who say there is no God.

And?

You asked me many of the same questions -or remarked on many things- which I replied to you with Scripture already -at least go back and read my replies, as this could circle unendingly with you making claims and statements and asking questions which I repeatedly answer which you repeatedly treat as if I did not reply.

You have not proven anything you say.

And I am not a liar; I posted the link above where Bob Hill had people come in front of a class and recant tongues as being from the Holy Spirit, and they recanted His gift to them when they formerly believed on the name of Jesus and were baptized in “good faith” by the Holy Ghost, and they “spoke in tongues“.

Didn't you and Bob already have this discussion? You are a liar.

To deny the Name of the LORD is blasphemy. To receive gifts from the Spirit of God and then attribute those gifts to the devil -which many MAD doctrine people do most certainly attribute the gift of tongues to devils, as Jerry Shugart did, in a prior post, and many more of them have said the same to me in other forums- or to attribute the gift they received to a neurological disturbance of the mind of people, as Bob Hill’s recanters did [at least the ones he admitted he had come up front and recant and confess they did not receive the Holy Ghost and did not speak in tongues by His gift], is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; because Jesus said he would not give a serpent to those who ask for the Holy Ghost.

Who said Jesus gave it to them?

If one claims Jesus Christ is their LORD and receives from the Holy Ghost enduement with power from on high and gifts of His Spirit and then claims they or the devil were responsible for the power and the gifts they received when they formerly confessed Jesus Christ’s name as their LORD, then they have blashamed the Spirit of God.

I'm MAD and I still believe tongues are present, but they are not as they were during Pentecost, because they do not have the same purpose they did then.

The Enduement with power from on high is the baptism given to Believers by the third Person in the One YHWH; It is the promise of the Father for those who are already adopted into the Beloved Son's name.

That's not what I meant. I was wondering where the word itself comes from. I have never heard the word before.

Paul's companion, Luke, wrote of that day of the Pentecost, when the enduement with Power and the Glory/Fire of the Father was sent to the New Man creation temple of God below, when the New Man creaton temple of God sat down above, as the Firstborn of earth [the Everlasting Father of the New Creation of human beings], and received the Glory "without measure" as the Firstborn of earth, the High King and High Priest of earth, the second 'Isyh created to be Kinsman/Redeemer to bring the many sons to the Glory of the Father, to be a house for His Glory's indwelling [as He went to the cross to do for us, as He said in John 14:1-3].

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ -not the name of John the Baptist, is now commanded by Jesus Christ; it is His Authority in which His Apostles command the repentant to be water baptized, .

Who said anything about John?

Filled with the “Holy Ghost” =endued with the power from on high again -a second time, for we are to be "being continually filled" -as needed for service to His name;

A second time?

 

[thelaqachisnext]

Where?


No you didn't. You posted nothing to show that Timothy wrote Hebrews. As for Paul circumcising Timothy, so what?! I never said he didn't.


I apologize for calling you "sir."


And?


You have not proven anything you say.


Didn't you and Bob already have this discussion? You are a liar.


Who said Jesus gave it to them?


I'm MAD and I still believe tongues are present, but they are not as they were during Pentecost, because they do not have the same purpose they did then.


That's not what I meant. I was wondering where the word itself comes from. I have never heard the word before.

Paul's companion, Luke, wrote of that day of the Pentecost, when the enduement with Power and the Glory/Fire of the Father was sent to the New Man creation temple of God below, when the New Man creaton temple of God sat down above, as the Firstborn of earth [the Everlasting Father of the New Creation of human beings], and received the Glory "without measure" as the Firstborn of earth, the High King and High Priest of earth, the second 'Isyh created to be Kinsman/Redeemer to bring the many sons to the Glory of the Father, to be a house for His Glory's indwelling [as He went to the cross to do for us, as He said in John 14:1-3].


Who said anything about John?


A second time?

I answered you;
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1343073&postcount=1188

1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, [my] own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hbr 13:23 Know ye that [our] brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
Hbr 13:25 Grace [be] with you all. Amen. [[[Written to the Hebrews from Italy, by Timothy.]]]

Where have I lied? please be explicit. detail the lie for me please.
Yes, a second time, in Acts 4 -which I pasted -go read it.
You are a minority in the MAD movement to believe tongues are "present" -But you have no basis for your argument that tongues have not got the same "purpose" as in the beginning of this age; Pentecost isn't over until the harvest is gathered!n The harvest isn't gathered and the crop is one crop.

Enduement is the same as endowment, endue is a variant of endow. The Gift of the Holy Spirit is an endowment -"something for the bride" to be equipped with, while walking through this life, towards the "Groom".

en·dow·ment

en·dow·ment [in dówmənt, en dówmənt]
(plural en·dow·ments)
n
1. finance funds or property: an amount of income or property that has been provided to a person or institution, especially an educational institution
2. finance giving of endowment: the giving of an endowment, or an instance of this
3. natural quality: a natural ability or quality
A sharp mind was one of her many endowments.

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

 

[Lighthouse]

I answered you;
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1343073&postcount=1188

Yeah, because Timothy wrote, "Know that our brother Timothy has been set free, with whom I shall see you if he comes shortly."

Where have I lied? please be explicit. detail the lie for me please.

You claimed Bob said and did something he never said or did.

Yes, a second time, in Acts 4 -which I pasted -go read it.

I meant, who said Jesus gave them the serpent?

You are a minority in the MAD movement to believe tongues are "present" -But you have no basis for your argument that tongues have not got the same "purpose" as in the beginning of this age; Pentecost isn't over until the harvest is gathered!n The harvest isn't gathered and the crop is one crop.

The harvest has been cut off, and will be returned to later, because they rejected Jesus as Messiah.

 

[thelaqachisnext]

The only problem I have with this is it is a singular witness.
Anyone can write their own history of themselves in their favor, doesn't make it necessarily true, especially when you have several others that are not that person contradicting it.
Certainly leaves a door open for investigation.
That is of course if one is truly interested in knowing the truth of the matter.
If not I suppose they could take just one single persons own claim about themselves and believe that.
People can believe whatever they can convince themselves of I suppose.

In any event there are passages in Revelation that commend churches in Asia for not following false apostles who claimed to be Jews but were not. (Ephesian)
Certainly something I would want to investigate and take ALL the accounts into consideration before making a decision on.



keep shinin'

jerm

Paul said it of himself and Luke witnessed it of Paul, when he penned Acts.
Timothy penned Hebrews, as he says in Hebrews which I listed the verse of, and Timothy and Paul were in prison together -but so was Apollos, I think, at that time -but I'd have to check 'records'.
Scripture is truth -interpretations of Scripture and translations are not truth when they contradict Scripture, itself.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Paul said it of himself and Luke witnessed it of Paul, when he penned Acts.
Timothy penned Hebrews, as he says in Hebrews which I listed the verse of, and Timothy and Paul were in prison together -but so was Apollos, I think, at that time -but I'd have to check 'records'.
Scripture is truth -interpretations of Scripture and translations are not truth when they contradict Scripture, itself.

Luke was a Gentile not a Jew and was not an Apostle appointed by Jesus himself, his account should be read with such knowledge.
He wrote down what Paul said, does not mean he said it himself of Paul, big difference.
Recording what someone says and agreeing with it as a witness are two different things.

Scripture is truth
Guess that's depends on what you consider scripture...
One can look at the account of Jesus casting out the legion into the swine and find 3 different geographical areas mentioned as the place it happened by three different accounts.
Truth is subjective to the creditability if the witness and the likelihood that it occurred where these accounts say it did.
All three can't be "the truth" just because they are in your Bible, since they are three different towns.
Scripture is truth -interpretations of Scripture and translations are not truth when they contradict Scripture, itself.
You making a claim that is unfalsifiable and a paradox within itself.
Leaving really no avenue to explore as far as probability and/or conferring with outside historical records.

keep shinin'

jerm

 

[thelaqachisnext]

Luke was a Gentile not a Jew and was not an Apostle appointed by Jesus himself, his account should be read with such knowledge.
He wrote down what Paul said, does not mean he said it himself of Paul, big difference.
Recording what someone says and agreeing with it as a witness are two different things.

Scripture is truth
Guess that's depends on what you consider scripture...
One can look at the account of Jesus casting out the legion into the swine and find 3 different geographical areas mentioned as the place it happened by three different accounts.
Truth is subjective to the creditability if the witness and the likelihood that it occurred where these accounts say it did.
All three can't be "the truth" just because they are in your Bible, since they are three different towns.
Scripture is truth -interpretations of Scripture and translations are not truth when they contradict Scripture, itself.
You making a claim that is unfalsifiable and a paradox within itself.
Leaving really no avenue to explore as far as probability and/or conferring with outside historical records.

keep shinin'

jerm

You cannot know God by dead letters, seems you are trying to make the Scriptures serve you, as dead letters, by finding contradictions to prove itself not inspired?
You won't find contradictions to prove Scripture not inspired, but you will find faulty translations and private interpretations.

There are not three places recorded for the demonaic [only that two were recorded by Mark] -it is the land of the Gaderenes, on the other side of Galilee, Gentiles lived there and the demoniac was a Gentile,
Jesus cast the demons out of that Gentile because He came to be the Light to the Gentiles, also....MAD forgets that he ministered to Gentiles like the Samaritans in their villages who believed on Him when they heard Him for themselves after Jesus shared His offer of Living Water to the Samaritan woman -but MAD does not rightly divide Scripture and isolates verses and makes doctrines out of them which contradict all truth.


There is no contradiction;

Mar 5:1¶And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.


Gadarenes = "reward at the end"
1) also called Gergesenes, was the capital of Peraea, situated opposite the south extremity of the Lake of Gennesaret to the south-east, but at some distance from the lake on the banks of the river Hieromax

from Gadara (a town east of the Jordan)

Mar 5:1¶And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
Luk 8:26¶And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.

-And no place in Scripture is Luke said to be a Gentile; so you have not one witness to back up that assertion -not even half a one

 

[jeremysdemo]

You cannot know God by dead letters, seems you are trying to make the Scriptures serve you, as dead letters, by finding contradictions to prove itself not inspired?
You won't find contradictions to prove Scripture not inspired, but you will find faulty translations and private interpretations.

There are not three places recorded for the demonaic -it is the land of the Gaderenes, on the other side of Galilee,

Perhaps we are using different Bible then, KJV here.
Luke 8:26-39
26And they arrived at the country of the Gerasenes, which is over against Galilee.
27And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
Mark 5
And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
28And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

Mark says it happened Gerasa, Matthew says it happened Gadara, and Luke says it happened in Gergesa.
The place where Jesus caused demons to enter the pigs depends on which gospel author is believed. If Mark is right and it was Gerasa, that would be modern Jerash, 50 miles from the Sea of Galilee — too far from the sea for the story to work. Gadara may be the ruins of Um Keis, 5 miles from the Sea of Galilee. This was a city of the Decapolis and a plausible candidate. Luke’s Gergesa may be the ruins of Khersa, north of Hippos and near steep slopes leading to the shore — also plausible.

BTW these never were called inspired words of God, they are direct accounts (from oral traditions) of what these people claim the rabbi Yeshua said, big difference.

keep shinin'

jerm

 

[Lighthouse]

You cannot know God by dead letters, seems you are trying to make the Scriptures serve you, as dead letters, by finding contradictions to prove itself not inspired?
You won't find contradictions to prove Scripture not inspired, but you will find faulty translations and private interpretations.

There are not three places recorded for the demonaic -it is the land of the Gaderenes, on the other side of Galilee, Gentiles lived there and the demoniac was a Gentile,
Jesus cast the demons out of that Gentile because He came to be the Light to the Gentiles, also....MAD forgets that he ministered to Gentiles like the Samaritans in their villages who believed on Him when they heard Him for themselves after Jesus shared His offer of Living Water to the Samaritan woman -but MAD does not rightly divide Scripture and isolates verses and makes doctrines out of them which contradict all truth.

"But He answered and said, [Jesus]'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'[/Jesus]"

-Matthew 15:24​