lightninboy said:
Dear Lighthouse,
Thank you for your reply.
They had salvation of a sort, and I call them saved.
Doesn’t your Clete idea of them being damned for breaking the Law contradict Paul saying there is no difference between Jew and Gentile? If the Jews of the Circumcision were saved, they had eternal security just like the saved Gentiles.
Yes. With no salvation by grace alone. Where in the Bible is it said that the Great Tribulation will be like Bob Hill says it will be?
Where does Paul say that salvation by grace alone won’t be in the Great Tribulation? And what is your opinion of John 3:16 being applicable to people in The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace?
Bingo! We are both Acts 2 Dispensationalists? If not, where are we different?
Lightinboy,
Midacts is a complex issue when you have been taught otherwise. There are many reasons I think it is the answer to a great many questions both of the Bible and of life.
Jesus said:
Matthew 17:20
So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
Faith is powerful. But who among christians today can move a mountain with their faith?
He also said:
John 14:12
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
You believe in him. Yet who have you raised from the dead? What illness have you cured? I have none attributed, not even by great faith or many prayers have those whom I have prayed for been healed. Why?
Jesus' words are true. They stand forever as truth. But they were for a different audience. His death was for the world, but his teachings and promises of healing was for the pre-trib believers, not us who are under grace.
Those who do not believe in M.A.D. have no answer for the confusion these verses cause. They wish them away, or they lie to uphold them. There are those who will say you can be healed of anything, and lead you down a path of great disappointment and drain your faith because they misunderstand, and preach anyway.
Or they say it is partly true. Healing and miracles happen sometimes, some people can do it, just not you. Now we go to some televangelist for answers that no one can backup, and that cause more questions for when their signs fall through.
They fail to see that the audience of Jesus' word is not us when it comes to these things that have changed. And they bring down believers faith, and worst, they cause unbelievers to never believe.
I was almost one of them. I have a great passion against this and wish to shed light on it because I do not want to see what almost happened to me happen to others.
Jesus upheld the law. He taught it, he commanded those who asked him how to be saved to follow it as a part of the plan. His disciples followed it. When people were saved, they got them to follow it. Even Peter had the Gentiles who were saved by grace baptized because he wanted them to follow Jesus' instructions that didn't apply to them.
God plainly told Peter that the law had passed away for Gentiles in Acts 10:9 and following. But Peter still had them follow the law. But it was at that moment that God did it. It was never said by sign or revelation before then that the law was not needed.
It was then that Paul was saved. He tells us that he received the revelation of Grace for the Gentiles and was made the leader of its preaching from God.
But what was going on before then? The 12 were readying for the Great Tribulation that Jesus said was coming. Daniel 9:25-27 tells us that 7 years after the Messiah was cut off that God would make an end of things, and the 12 understood this.
But the Jews didn't turn to God, so God halted this plan.
So God postponed it for a later time. The great tribulation is a time God pours out his wrath on the world. But Paul tells us we, who are saved by Grace, were not appointed to wrath.
Paul said to the Gentiles saved by Grace
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Paul tells us that we will meet him in the sky. But all other prophecy tells of Jesus coming to take his throne in Israel. This is all a part of the mystery, that was never made known before Paul, by God. The plan for us under Grace is not the same as it is for Israel.
For us, the tribulation will not be experienced. It was never meant for us, but rather for Israel. It is during this time that signs and wonders will be seen, and preformed by believers. It is then that Antichrist will be alive and the days will be cut short. Not now tho. Because those saved by Grace are still here so the wrath cannot come because we are not appointed to it.
As a believer in the MAD doctrine I do not disrespect or ignore Jesus' words. They are true, but he is speaking to Israel, the Israel who obeyed the law and who was just about to enter the tribulation. Now God has made a new Covenant with the Gentiles. One of Grace, with no law.
Do you think the prophecies against Nineveh apply to you? Did God command you to let his people go? No, but the words are still true. Same applies to us and Jesus. His words are holy and true, but his commands are not for us, because we are under grace. Yet his death is for all.
For now, God has made Jew and Gentile alike, both under grace, but only after the Jews rejected Jesus in Acts 7 and 8, as his own people ran the church ragged.
I hope I have given enough to make a strong case for MAD that you might consider it.
