The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace
- Thread starter Bob Hill
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scpaintballer01
New member
Jefferson said:
as a youth I guess I have a personal vendetta against my own lol. It honestly angers, well no, anger isnt the correct word it....frustrates me to see kids who attend sunday school, youth group and "regular" church, and often are leaders within the youth, who are completely hipocritical, but that's another rant ill save for later.
No you haven't. Your post was inane. Paul was saying there was no difference in the Body of Christ, which will be in heaven during the great tribulation, and the dispensation of grace will be over.lightninboy said:
lightninboy
Member
Yay, Lighthouse, you're back!
Do you agree with Jerry Shugart or with Bob Hill about the Israelites under the Law losing their salvation for breaking the Law?
It appears to me that Scofield and Bob Hill improperly classified the Great Tribulation as not being under grace.
I gave verses that said God is no respecter of persons. What verse were you and Clete basing the statement "There is no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile. That was the central message of Paul's ministry." on?
Do you agree with Jerry Shugart or with Bob Hill about the Israelites under the Law losing their salvation for breaking the Law?
It appears to me that Scofield and Bob Hill improperly classified the Great Tribulation as not being under grace.
I gave verses that said God is no respecter of persons. What verse were you and Clete basing the statement "There is no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile. That was the central message of Paul's ministry." on?
Romans 10:11-13, Galatians 3: 27-29, and Colossians 3:10-12.lightninboy said:
And I believe that no one under the law is saved, period.
lightninboy
Member
Lighthouse said:
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Paul didn't put a statute of limitations on that.
lightninboy
Member
Lighthouse said:
Lighthouse, clarify that and answer the question.
Lighthouse said:
The NT does not teach lawlessness or antinomianism. We are under a moral law of love, not OT ceremonial laws. We are still to love God and not worship idols, etc. Jesus and Paul reiterated the principles of the law. A fulfillment of the law by Christ is not a negation of its timeless nature. Just because it negatively condemns us as sinners does not mean that there is not a positive aspect to it (Jesus and Paul called it good). There is a difference between keeping legalistic, man-made laws like the Pharisees did to try and earn salvation, and loving obedience to what is for the glory of God and the good of man because we are saved by grace through faith apart from self-righteous works.
Clete said:
Wow.. back from vacation and have some catching up to do. Clete, The Angel of the Lord who may at times been Christ came down and executed people in the Old Testament regularly... well, more then once.
Its not like it was more difficult. Why did he slay those in Sodom and Gomorrah? Why was he about to slay those in Ninevah. Why did he have the Jews wipe out those in Canaan. They were living in Sin, and He judged them. Were there some people who believed in the God of the Jews? Will we see some of them in heaven? I would say Yes, and you would say no I believe. Rahab and her family I believe were Old Testament Believers who would have been in heaven, even if they had not saved the spies and saved their physical life with their actions. They were not Jews at that point.. though I do not know if they converted later or not. Ok.. catching up.
lightninboy
Member
Here is a Theology Online thread that kind of pertains to this one: Was Nebuchadnezzar saved?
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33824&page=1&pp=15&highlight=nebuchadnezzar
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33824&page=1&pp=15&highlight=nebuchadnezzar
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Peter and Paul were in two different dispensations.
Peter correctly wrote for his dispensation: Acts 2:36-39 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
Paul correctly wrote for our Dispensation of Grace: Eph 2:8-18 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh - who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands – 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Safe in Christ,
Bob Hill
Peter correctly wrote for his dispensation: Acts 2:36-39 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
Paul correctly wrote for our Dispensation of Grace: Eph 2:8-18 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh - who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands – 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Safe in Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
We, today, are in the Dispensation of the Grace of God according to Eph 3:2 if indeed you have heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you. God gave this new method of salvation to the Apostle Paul – no one else. God gave it to Paul, and he spread it all over the ancient Roman world.
According to Eph 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” But, it goes further. God chose us, corporately, in Christ. Eph 1:4 “in as much as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.”
I’ll deal with that later, but first, what does “chose,” mean?, we see that God wants to pour out spiritual blessings on us Christians. For Christians, we see that these blessings are accomplished by the Father.
This word, chose, in the Greek can be translated I select, or I choose. So the first thing we should know, is Jesus Christ is the selected one. Christ is the one in and by whom the Father accomplishes His blessings.
Isaiah 42:1 prophesied: “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.” Christ was chosen to be the redeemer, not just for Israel, but also for Gentiles.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
According to Eph 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.” But, it goes further. God chose us, corporately, in Christ. Eph 1:4 “in as much as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.”
I’ll deal with that later, but first, what does “chose,” mean?, we see that God wants to pour out spiritual blessings on us Christians. For Christians, we see that these blessings are accomplished by the Father.
This word, chose, in the Greek can be translated I select, or I choose. So the first thing we should know, is Jesus Christ is the selected one. Christ is the one in and by whom the Father accomplishes His blessings.
Isaiah 42:1 prophesied: “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.” Christ was chosen to be the redeemer, not just for Israel, but also for Gentiles.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
The body of Christ was a mystery, hidden in God until He revealed it to the Apostle Paul.
Eph 3:1-9 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles - 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and mutual partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.
Colossians reiterates this: Col 1:24-27 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions for Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25&26 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to complete the word of God, the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Eph 3:1-9 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles - 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and mutual partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.
Colossians reiterates this: Col 1:24-27 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions for Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25&26 of which I became a minister according to the dispensation of God which was given to me for you, to complete the word of God, the mystery, which has been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ among you, the hope of glory.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
Getting back to Eph 1:3-14, first, the whole passage: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.”
When we look at it more closely, I believe the election of men is only in Christ. When a person yields to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and believes that Christ died for him, then, he becomes a member of Christ’s body, the church. Outside of Christ, according to the Bible, there is no election of anyone. In Eph 1:4, God chose us in Christ. In verse 5, God gave the predestinated adoption to us. In verse 11, God definitely showed that we are inheritors in Christ. In verse 13, God sealed us in Christ.
Therefore, we see love and blessings here, not fatalism.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
When we look at it more closely, I believe the election of men is only in Christ. When a person yields to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and believes that Christ died for him, then, he becomes a member of Christ’s body, the church. Outside of Christ, according to the Bible, there is no election of anyone. In Eph 1:4, God chose us in Christ. In verse 5, God gave the predestinated adoption to us. In verse 11, God definitely showed that we are inheritors in Christ. In verse 13, God sealed us in Christ.
Therefore, we see love and blessings here, not fatalism.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
Damian
New member
Bob Hill said:
What would you say to the individual who denies that baptism is not required for salvation as taught by Jesus in the Great Commisison?
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:15,16
Bob Hill
TOL Subscriber
It is amazing, but we are chosen and sealed because we believed in Christ. Eph 1:4,12,13 “just as He chose us in Him 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.”
He didn’t choose us to be saved. He wants all to be saved, 1 Tim 2:3-6 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
He chose us to be holy and blameless. Eph 1:4 “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love.”
He chose everyone who would believe in Christ to be holy and blameless.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
He didn’t choose us to be saved. He wants all to be saved, 1 Tim 2:3-6 “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
He chose us to be holy and blameless. Eph 1:4 “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame before Him in love.”
He chose everyone who would believe in Christ to be holy and blameless.
In Christ,
Bob Hill
So? Paul's not in charge, is he?lightninboy said: