TOL did computer maintenance and we all lost some posts -Hello everyone. What is going on around here? Why do all my posts get deleted?
TOL did computer maintenance and we all lost some posts -Hello everyone. What is going on around here? Why do all my posts get deleted?
Do you finally believe in the Trinity now?You missed one.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Do you finally believe in the Trinity now?
Let's say for the sake of discussion that Abraham is one of the fathers of Israel, so where is Abraham?
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises...
Dead men don't talk and dead men don't turn.
Who do you believe is the Father of Adam? Who do you believe is the Father of Jesus?
Luke 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Without Christ nothing was made that was made, and Adam was made.
You missed one.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
You say that you don't believe in a triune God, but from this post you do seem to believe in the trinity, how is the way you believe different from the trinity?
I do see the holy spirit differently, when God spoke to Moses at the burning bush, he spoke through angel, yet the angel only spoke what God had given him to say, even saying "I am" through the angel, and Jesus when he spoke to John in revelation he spoke through an angel, yet the angel spoke as if it were Jesus speaking.
It says in the Bible that there are ministering spirits, what are those spirits who minister unto us?
The angel spoke to Moses out of flames of fire, the tongue of the spirit came upon the apostles as flames of fire at Pentecost
And Hebrews 1
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Does the Bible say we have one God?
Does the Bible say Christ has one body?
1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
The "body of Christ" is a metaphor, not a literal physical body. And then there are not "two bodies" of Christ, even in the metaphor it is singular.
The body of Christ, the church, is a spiritual body which is the flesh and bones of Jesus Christ.
So who was Adam's Father?
In one sense he had no father because he was created. But because he was created he had a Creator, thus God was his Father.
Did you read that passage before claiming that it said Satan was bound at the cross?
Hebrews 2:14-15 KJV
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
A couple difficulties for your interpretation:
1) It does not say that the devil would be bound, but that the devil would be destroyed. Two entirely different concepts.One can be bound without being destroyed, and one can be destroyed without being bound.
2) It does not say that the action of destruction occurred at the moment of the cross, but that it would be accomplished through the cross. Two entirely different times. The time of fulfillment will be consistent as described by the prophets.
The scripture already gives us the time when the devil will be bound, released, and then later destroyed. None of those were at the cross.
Hebrews 2:14 is nothing to do with Jesus destroying Satan at the natural cross, he's talking about Jesus being dead to the flesh and putting the power of Satan to death in his flesh, by denying his own will and doing the will of God, thus denying Satan and the world!
Where does it mention the cross in Hebrews 2:14?
And it's worshipping the father in spirit and in truth, There is absolutely no trinity there, Jesus is not saying for us to worship the spirit or to worship the truth but worship the father only.
Yes because the fullness of God was in and through him because he didn't live by his own will, and because he completely lived by the will of God, he spoke everything that God gave him by the spirit, he obeyed God fully and lived it out completely and he never sinned, bringing love, compassion and mercy of God to all.You missed one.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was in the express image of God, but he isn't God, there is only one God and he is the father, and Jesus isn't him, and God is also the father of Jesus Christ, Jesus prayed to his father, so how can Jesus be the father too? He wasn't praying to himself! Saying Jesus is the father makes no sense whatever and there is nowhere in the Bible where Jesus tells us to call him father. And that's because there is only one father and he's the only true God!
The appearance of God is sometimes called an angel and sometimes a man, which makes it a little confusing to have a specific pinning down of which was absolutely what.
The deciding factor is either a direct statement of scripture (it always scales up) and if the being permits worship. For example, Jacob wrestled a man, elsewhere it talks about the angel that appeared to Jacob, but when God himself speaks to Jacob he says that he appeared to him at that time and location. His authority was such that his decision was what changed his name to Israel and blessed him. Jacob named the place because he had "seen God and lived."
yes, I believe that the ministering spirits minister to us on God's behalf, speaking only what is given to them to speak. I believe that these are the holy spirit, but they are of one voice and speak only the word of God, making them one.In some places in Revelation Jesus speaks, and in other places there is a different angel speaking, and sometimes speaking specific words for Jesus. Again, the telling factor is that one of these beings allows John to fall down and worship him, and the other forbids the worship and says "worship God." Therefore, the one that "was dead and is now alive" and allowed worship must be God.
I suppose the ministering spirits must minister to God, or perhaps rather to us on God's behalf.
maybe because Jesus isn't the father! How can Jesus be the father when the father is his father also? Jesus is the son, not the father!How is what I believe different from Trinity? Apparently I "confuse the persons" which is a big Trinity-no-no. Trinity is big on "Jesus is not the Father, the Father is not the Holy Spirit, etc. The bible makes no such distinction and does create that "confusion" so that's good enough for me. I also don't use Trinity terminology such as "Eternal Son" (because there is no Eternal Son) but I do believe in the Son of God as the Eternal One who was manifest in the flesh.
Also add into that "patripassionism" ... that I believe that God in heaven truly loved us to the extent that he endured the suffering of our rejection of him on the cross. I don't believe he is stone cold and heartless, but that he has actual and real feeling. Tertullian (probably the first Trinitarian) was really big that "Patripassionism" was a heresy. His gnostic idea of God had an unfeeling Father, and a vulnerable Son, and then a third Spirit to round things out.
I suppose you could say that I am sympathetic to some of the Trinity points but rather than considering it a sacred thing itself I rather consider it an imperfect model which has its own flaws, like any human model is prone to have. Try making a model of the solar system and it's not going to be perfect either. No matter whether you put the sun or earth at the center, you can't do proper scaling and have it be looked at and understood by people. But you use the model to emphasize the important points that you need to convey then and there.
I think the most important points we need from a model of God is that Jesus was and is truly God, and that the only way for us to truly know and love God is to understand Jesus, because this is how he wants to be known to us.The rest of the details are secondary I figure.
1. Thomas seemed to think otherwise. Look what he says to the resurrected Jesus.
John 20:28 KJV
(28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
2. Paul seemed to think otherwise. Look at how he quotes and applies this passage from Isaiah:
Isaiah 45:22-23 KJV
(22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
(23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
(10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
(11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
3. John seemed to think otherwise. Look at how he introduces his gospel.
John 1:1-3 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. Jesus seemed to think otherwise. Look at how he reveals himself to John.
Revelation 1:17-18 KJV
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Right now you are having trouble understanding why Jesus made reference to God in heaven above, why he, being found in the form of a man, subjected himself in the same fashion as men. It is okay to not understand everything, or not all at once. But this is a matter of understanding and perception. The clear and concrete statements are that Jesus is indeed our Lord, our Creator, and our God. There is only One God and One Creator, therefore, if Jesus is God, then Jesus is that God.
Don't set aside the clear statements of scripture because your perception has difficulty with the ramifications. Accept the revelation first in faith, and the rest will follow.
Thomas hadn't yet received the holy spirit, and he could see God in Jesus.
Every knee shall bow to Jesus because God has exhalted him and set him at his right hand, Christ is still under subjection to God!
Paul even said that the head of Christ is God! If Christ is God why would God be the head of him?
What is Jesus the first and the last of?
I have no trouble understanding why Jesus made reference to God in heaven above. I understand it completely, its because God is the God of Jesus too, which Jesus clearly says himself also.
And if you believe that we shouldn't set aside clear statements in scripture then don't set aside these
John 20
but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 17
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
1 Corinthians 8
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him
1 Corinthians 11
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God
1 Timothy 2
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him
1 Peter 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
2 Corinthians 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort
I can go and on, it's clear to me through reading the Bible, that God is the God and father of Jesus and that he is the head of Christ!