Rosenritter
New member
If traditions are sufficient then why do we have scripture?You can't go against the Church Fathers my friend -
If traditions are sufficient then why do we have scripture?You can't go against the Church Fathers my friend -
Yes I can.You can't go against the Church Fathers my friend -
My apologies. It did not sound like an agreement.If you weren't so hostile you would realize that I was confirming what you said...
Jesus did NOT "receive" anything but a symbolic confirmation of who He ALREADY was.Don't you see the words "the spirit of God"? What do you think that could be, does everyone get a Dove? Think RD. Jesus was special he received the spirit of God. The express image.
Jesus did NOT "receive" anything but a symbolic confirmation of who He ALREADY was.
Can't you see that the Spirit of God came down like a dove and lighted UPON Him?
ALL FOUR accounts (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) agree on this point.
According to your ridiculous "story" the spirit that was in Jesus had to be suppressed or kicked out. That is FALSE.
Luke also added the voice of God to the information about this event:Luke 3:22 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:22) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
This was NOT Jesus becoming something that He was NOT ALREADY.
Again, you cannot understand figures of speech. The "express image of His person" is telling you that Jesus is God. But you reject it anyway.
"charakter autos hupostasis"
Not so my friend, scripture has been twisted to create the Trinity by foolish early church fathers. Truth has been given to me for a reason. My faith is not based of what most have been taught.
Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app
Yep, and your lucky to be in this generation.So, we had to wait hundreds of years for you to come around and straighten everybody out?
:kookoo:Yep, and your lucky to be in this generation.
According to your ridiculous "story" the spirit that was in Jesus had to be suppressed or kicked out. That is FALSE.
Please don't reply to me when you're talking to keypurr.Keypurr, could you clarify what would have happened to the original Jesus? Was he effectively killed when the other spirit took over, or placed in a coma, or was he a passive observer that could take no actions but still could think? Or was he allowed to take actions every now and them for unimportant things?
I am unclear on this point. Please forgive RD's presentation, he is working on the longsuffering and patience bit. I would like to understand your position.
James 3:17 KJV
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
RD, the tone of this thread is rather hostile and borderline abusive. You have attacked over major disagreement, minor disagreement, and even agreement when it is stated in different words.Please don't reply to me when you're talking to keypurr.
Don't confuse direct talk with patience.
Perhaps I do come off too strong for some, but I don't think that telling the truth has come off all puppies and cotton candy.RD, the tone of this thread is rather hostile and borderline abusive. You have attacked over major disagreement, minor disagreement, and even agreement when it is stated in different words.
Let us suppose you were right, for the moment. If you were right, how do you expect to win someone's heart?
But let us suppose, for sake of argument, that you were wrong about something. How would you be able to fairly evaluate the possibility if you are always in a state of hostile attack over everything? As a non rhetorical question, are you always right?
It is the fact that your blindness will not let you see the depth of my thoughts friend. You need to ask yourself if you are really open minded.Why is it that we are unable to communicate with yo Keypur? Is it that you are unable to to understand the context of scripture? What is your biggest beef?
I am sure God would relate to us in terms that we would understand. The dead are dead. To be dead is to not think, say, move, breath. Just to decompose. Jesus was not God and he did not raise himself. The dead know nothing.You know better than that Keypurr. God built the rules of this universe. He could build special rules if he needed. Let's call those "miracles."
1. God could have "time traveled" from Time A to Time B and he would effectively be "dead" in between.
2. God could "pre-program" that he could die and come back to life after a set period of time.
3. Or perhaps God experienced death by dying in the flesh within this universe he created for us, while still existing outside of it, like the way my Rosenritter account could be banned or deleted and I would still be alive in my "real world" while dead to the rest of TOL.
Do we really need to understand they metaphysics of how it could work before we believe, or is it enough to have faith that God somehow did what he said he did?
Perhaps I do come off too strong for some, but I don't think that telling the truth has come off all puppies and cotton candy.
We don't "win someone's heart" with sweet talk, but with plain truth.
John 1 is the most misunderstood verse in the NT. The Greek to English translations have mislead most. The JWS got this one right for they use the words "a god". The spirit son is a creation who was given the fullness of his creator. But he is a FORM of God, not God himself. This is what became flesh in the body prepared of him.I feel as if you left out part of the scripture while forming your conclusion, like the first chapter of John.
John 1:1-3 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
When you read this, do you understand this to mean that "the Word" is being used to refer to God?
John 1:14 KJV
(14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So whomever you just acknowledged the Word to be, that was whom was made flesh. The Word cannot be made, because "without him was not any thing made that was made" which means he is uncreated. If we have One Creator, that creator was made flesh.
It does not say that the creator "made flesh" but that he "was made flesh." No mention of a created "spirit son" in that passage. I don't think it's complicated. I don't think you think it's complicated either, but you must have an objection or a perceived contradiction in the back of your mind. Can you attempt to state what those might be, so that I (or someone else) might have a chance to fairly answer them?
And if they are answerable and able to be answered, would you be willing to consider the likely solution that John might be speaking plainly?
Your in the same boat BR is in, bobbing up and down in the sea of tradition. I have over thirty Greek to English Bibles and only one Aramaic to English one. I trust none fully because they all have human translators. So I take what is written and prove what it says by comparing and reasoning with the content.So the Greek is not good enough for you that you need to translate it to Hebrew instead of English?
PAY ATTENTION, it says the following things:
Please let us all know how the WORD could be a CREATION when He CREATED ALL THINGS.
- The WORD was WITH God
- The WORD was God
- The WORD made ALL THINGS
- All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Nonsense, He is the CREATOR OF ALL THINGS.
The WORD became flesh by taking a body and not by taking OVER a body.
God was not born in Bethlehem. He became flesh.
I am sure God would relate to us in terms that we would understand. The dead are dead. To be dead is to not think, say, move, breath. Just to decompose. Jesus was not God and he did not raise himself. The dead know nothing.
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
John 1 is the most misunderstood verse in the NT. The Greek to English translations have mislead most. The JWS got this one right for they use the words "a god". The spirit son is a creation who was given the fullness of his creator. But he is a FORM of God, not God himself. This is what became flesh in the body prepared of him.
I have not left anything out from my studies, that is why I can say I have the same God that Jesus Christ has. The Father is the only true God. Like the Greeks, most folks who profess to be Christians do not follow the example of their Lord.
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app