The time has come...

[This Charming Manc]

Yes, the classic case that you're right and I'm wrong.

Just about any death these days is attributed to COVID. The health director in our state said that even people in a hospice that were already given only weeks to live would go down as a COVID death is they believed they had COVID. This that kind of accounting, the number of "COVID deaths" is going to be significantly inflated.

Well what I did to check the numbers out, was I looked at the numbers been given.

I also looked at the numbers of people who died in the same months UK in 2019, I then looked at the numbers in the Covid period which was 2020.

The number of excess deaths was 20% higher than the Covid number, which suggested there was an undercount not an overcount.

They can also fudge the numbers, since you're going to believe them anyway.

But unless they have shares in mask company why would they, scientists and doctors live there life by peer review, so if they get something wrong or lie they college's can see, pull them up on it and there are sever ramifications for there careers, generally scientists and doctors who are not exclusively funded by a special interest group don't lie.

Usually much more trustable than a random on the internet, with no qualifications, nor expertise, an awfully big agenda and no peer accountability.

 

[Right Divider]

Well what I did to check the numbers out, was I looked at the numbers been given.

I also looked at the numbers of people who died in the same months UK in 2019, I then looked at the numbers in the Covid period which was 2020.

The number of excess deaths was 20% higher than the Covid number, which suggested there was an undercount not an overcount.

That is hilarious. They count people that are dying without COVID as a COVID death and yet you think that they are undercounting COVID deaths.

But unless they have shares in mask company why would they, scientists and doctors live there life by peer review, so if they get something wrong or lie they college's can see, pull them up on it and there are sever ramifications for there careers, generally scientists and doctors who are not exclusively funded by a special interest group don't lie.

Usually much more trustable than a random on the internet, with no qualifications, nor expertise, an awfully big agenda and no peer accountability.

Just exactly how do people like Dr. Fauci have "accountability"?

 

[JudgeRightly]

They count people that are dying without COVID as a COVID death and yet you think that they are undercounting COVID deaths.

I believe it was mostly that they were counting people who died WITH covid-19 as having died FROM covid-19, though I don't doubt that they counted people who had it and got over it yet still died in that as well.

 

[Right Divider]

I believe it was mostly that they were counting people who died WITH covid-19 as having died FROM covid-19, though I don't doubt that they counted people who had it and got over it yet still died in that as well.

Also, they counted people that were "presumed" to have had COVID. At one point NY added about 3700 people to the COVID death list that were "presumed" to have had COVID. That pushed their total to over 10000 at the time and people were freaking out about that number.

 

[Yorzhik]

I believe it was mostly that they were counting people who died WITH covid-19 as having died FROM covid-19, though I don't doubt that they counted people who had it and got over it yet still died in that as well.

They were also double dipping for a while. The death numbers were counting all the *with COVID* deaths, and then the same death was counted as what was the primary cause on the death cert. Luckily that was changed, but it sure scared a lot of people early on.

 

[This Charming Manc]

That is hilarious. They count people that are dying without COVID as a COVID death and yet you think that they are undercounting COVID deaths.

Just exactly how do people like Dr. Fauci have "accountability"?

OK you either did read what I was saying or you didn't understand the point. If you want to understand the process i just talk about there a good article here.

Broadly I understand the concern of the counting, so went to check it out. Looking at excess mortality is fair ay of checking if the numbers are way out, or something like right. These stats are from the UK last spring when i checked things out.

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-...R45tqrNHvtV5BrrCe7tmlIBGofmRjl2hoC3oMQAvD_BwE

Those stats for the UK last year, show excess mortality far above the number of covid deaths, which would suggest that for the UK in April 2020 the count was low not high. This didn't mean they didn't overcount anywhere, but it meant that they probably undercounted and missed cases a lot more than they overcounted. Testing was poor in UK at that point.

If you are not sure about the figures you are getting, go have a look at excess mortality figures and that should give you a good idea id they are right or not. I did it in the UK and realised they were not to bad, and definitely were not over counted at that point.

Now in the UK we have an ideologically right wing government who due to policy and personality have been slow to introduce measures, as the restriction of personal freedoms the last thing they want to do. I'm pretty sure it doesn't suit there agenda to cook the books and increase the numbers.

 

[eider]

Now in the UK we have an ideologically right wing government who due to policy and personality have been slow to introduce measures, as the restriction of personal freedoms the last thing they want to do. I'm pretty sure it doesn't suit there agenda to cook the books and increase the numbers.

They actually think that Boris is a 'leftist'!!!

Obviously these 'free' people can do what they do in their countries. But if they came to the UK and tried to walk in to a shop or hospital without a mask they would be refused entry.

Permission to enter premises here can be withheld by owners or management and no reason even has to be given. That's freedom, from troublemakers.

 

[Omniskeptical]

They actually think that Boris is a 'leftist'!!!

Obviously these 'free' people can do what they do in their countries. But if they came to the UK and tried to walk in to a shop or hospital without a mask they would be refused entry.

Permission to enter premises here can be withheld by owners or management and no reason even has to be given. That's freedom, from troublemakers.

No comrade, that is tyranny in the UK. Have fun.

 

[eider]

No comrade, that is tyranny in the UK. Have fun.

Not true.
Are you trying to tell me that a shop owner in Texas cannot ban a person from entering their premises?

Or a hospital control who enters?

Don't be stupid

 

[Rusha]

They actually think that Boris is a 'leftist'!!!

Obviously these 'free' people can do what they do in their countries. But if they came to the UK and tried to walk in to a shop or hospital without a mask they would be refused entry.

Permission to enter premises here can be withheld by owners or management and no reason even has to be given. That's freedom, from troublemakers.

The US needs to penalize non-maskers with fines and/or arrest.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The US needs to penalize non-maskers with fines and/or arrest.

Rusha, I've seen some pretty dumb things from you in the past, but this is a whole new level of dumb.

Do you WANT a totalitarian government?
Because that's where that leads.

 

[Clete]

Rusha, I've seen some pretty dumb things from you in the past, but this is a whole new level of dumb.

Do you WANT a totalitarian government?
Because that's where that leads.

That is precisely what he wants!

 

[Rusha]

Simple. I want people to be responsible enough to not spread a deadly disease to vulnerable individuals. The refusal to wear masks is selfish, cultish and downright un-American.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Simple. I want people to be responsible enough to not spread a deadly disease to vulnerable individuals.

There is no such thing as being accountable for spreading a disease, and it is irresponsible to make people feel guilty for not taking measures to prevent it.

To imply that there is ignores the past 200 years of medical progress.

The refusal to wear masks is selfish, cultish and downright un-American.

No, Rusha, it's not.

 

[Rusha]

There is no such thing as being accountable for spreading a disease, and it is irresponsible to make people feel guilty for not taking measures to prevent it.

To imply that there is ignores the past 200 years of medical progress.



No, Rusha, it's not.

We will just have to agree to disagree ... insofar as feeling guilt, that only applies to people who know they are hurting others with their selfishness.

 

[ok doser]

That is precisely what he wants!

Rusha is a woman. A silly woman whose hatred of Republicans clouds her judgement, which has been recognized by many here as having been of poor quality for a very very long time.

The good news is that she claims to have turned from her rejection of Christ back to Him.

Pray for her.

 

[ok doser]

Simple. I want people to be responsible enough to not spread a deadly disease to vulnerable individuals. The refusal to wear masks is selfish, cultish and downright un-American.

I know that reason and logic are wasted on you so I throw this out here not for you but for others who will appreciate it:

Why doesn't your argument apply to every year's flu season in which thousands of Americans** die?



** 34,200 in 2019

 

[Omniskeptical]

The US needs to penalize non-maskers with fines and/or arrest.

That would not slow the spread as much as avoiding vaccines; I more than suspect.

 

[eider]

The US needs to penalize non-maskers with fines and/or arrest.

When a whole community is acting as a team, those who don't want to join in cannot expect to be respected.

Boris is talking about introducing a vaccination passport here. No passport, no entry.

 

[eider]

No comrade, that is tyranny in the UK. Have fun.

Tyranny is thinking you can do what you like at everybody else's expense.

Shops here are privately owned and you only get in by owners wishes.