The Terrible God of Calvinism

[glorydaz]

Free choice exists. But we cannot chose against our nature. The scriptures clearly teach that man cannot please God in the flesh. But folks like Mr. Pate do not believe that. They think they can do at least one thing in the flesh that pleases God, and that is to believe. So he thinks the natural man can act contrary to his nature, which cannot be proven through scripture.

Your definition of man's nature sure is different than God's. Man was created to know God...the invisible things of Him are clearly seen and understood. They then BECAME vain in their imaginings...professing themselves to be wise they BECAME FOOLS. Therefore, they cannot please God until they turn to Him and worship Him as they were created to do.

Romans 1:19-22
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,​

 

[NickCharles]

Your definition of man's nature sure is different than God's. Man was created to know God...the invisible things of Him are clearly seen and understood. They then BECAME vain in their imaginings...professing themselves to be wise they BECAME FOOLS. Therefore, they cannot please God until they turn to Him and worship Him as they were created to do.

Romans 1:19-22

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,​

I don't know why you think that counters what I said. I never said it was not in our nature to know God exists.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't know why you think that counters what I said. I never said it was not in our nature to know God exists.

Believe....the word is believe. That is what you claimed.

 

[NickCharles]

Believe....the word is believe. That is what you claimed.

Okay. I never said it was not in our nature to believe God exists.

 

[glorydaz]

Okay. I never said it was not in our nature to believe God exists.

Ah, so you admit we were created by God to know He exists. Since the things of God are clearly seen and understood by us, then it should come as no surprise that we were created to hear His voice. Otherwise, how would you explain this verse?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.​

 

[NickCharles]

Ah, so you admit we were created by God to know He exists. Since the things of God are clearly seen and understood by us, then it should come as no surprise that we were created to hear His voice. Otherwise, how would you explain this verse?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.​

I think it means faith comes by hearing. But since not everyone who hears has faith, it doesn't mean that everyone who hears has faith.

 

[glorydaz]

I think it means faith comes by hearing. But since not everyone who hears has faith, it doesn't mean that everyone who hears has faith.

But aren't you claiming that the natural man is unable to believe?

 

[NickCharles]

But aren't you claiming that the natural man is unable to believe?

Unwilling. What is meant by that is that they hear the truth. We know it's the truth. But they reject it. So something must occur in order for someone to believe in something that they don't believe in.

If scripture is correct that the gospel is spiritually discerned, then there can not be any way the natural man can believe it's true. And since we cannot please God in the flesh, there's no way the natural man can believe in his natural state. Something must change.

 

[patrick jane]

Unwilling. What is meant by that is that they hear the truth. We know it's the truth. But they reject it. So something must occur in order for someone to believe in something that they don't believe in.

If scripture is correct that the gospel is spiritually discerned, then there can not be any way the natural man can believe it's true. And since we cannot please God in the flesh, there's no way the natural man can believe in his natural state. Something must change.

you poor soul

 

[NickCharles]

you poor soul

Why is that?

 

[patrick jane]

Why is that?

some poor souls never see or feel the connection with God through Jesus Christ, just one of those things.

 

[NickCharles]

some poor souls never see or feel the connection with God through Jesus Christ, just one of those things.

That's not me. But I appreciate your concern.

 

[Robert Pate]

Unwilling. What is meant by that is that they hear the truth. We know it's the truth. But they reject it. So something must occur in order for someone to believe in something that they don't believe in.

If scripture is correct that the gospel is spiritually discerned, then there can not be any way the natural man can believe it's true. And since we cannot please God in the flesh, there's no way the natural man can believe in his natural state. Something must change.

On the day of Pentecost thousands heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

What occured was the preaching of the Gospel.

They heard, they believed and they were saved.

This is how it happens. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

 

[NickCharles]

On the day of Pentecost thousands heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.



What occured was the preaching of the Gospel.



They heard, they believed and they were saved.



This is how it happens. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

I agree. Nothing you said opposes what I said (if that was your intention).

 

[serpentdove]

If you are going to believe in Calvinism, then you must believe that God creates and gives life to people that are reprobates. He creates and gives life to these reprobates for the sole purpose of sending them to hell...

That is double predestination.

See:

What is double predestination?

 

[serpentdove]

Then you have an issue since God sends some of those He loves to hell. How can you believe in a God who doesn't love unconditionally?

"God loves you but he'll live without you." ~ J. Vernon McGee 1 Pe 1:16

 

[Robert Pate]

That is double predestination.

See:

What is double predestination?

How can anyone believe and have faith in a God that would do such a thing?

 

[NickCharles]

How can anyone believe and have faith in a God that would do such a thing?

Do you believe God knows who will end up in hell before He creates them?

 

[patrick jane]

That's not me. But I appreciate your concern.

not concerned, just one of those things.

 

[NickCharles]

not concerned, just one of those things.

I don't understand. Unless you were trying to be insulting. Then it makes sense.