The Perversion of Libertarianism

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Here is a real life scenario, you make the decision:

You walk into your 11 year old daughter's bedroom who has just found out that she's pregnant after being raped by 20 barbarians (it's highly unlikely that the little girl would ever be able to be impregnated after such savagery, but I'll stick to this scenario).

She's been despondent and is now suicidal because of the pregnancy. You take her to qualified psychologists who state that the child is going to kill herself if the pregnancy is allowed.

It's your choice Sandy: Dead daughter and dead grandchild or just a dead grandchild?

Again, every civilized nation does make exceptions for abortion in rare cases, this would be a rare case.

By making those the only options, you are playing the same game and using similar excuses that pro-abortion advocates utilize.

You mean the pro abortion advocates that like you voted for Barack Hussein Obama in the last two Presidential elections and like you have voted the pro abortion (on demand) democratic ticket for decades?

Medical attention. Love. Support. You seem to conveniently leave those off of your list and ASSUME that death is the only option.

That's right, Libertarian in denial WizardofOz didn't mention that I put heavy emphasis on counseling the 11 year old rape victim during our debate. He must have conveniently forgot (yep, that's what must have happened).

Which leads me to the question ... WHY do you claim to be prolife, ACW? Either the lives of unborn babies are valuable ... or they are not. Do you rate their value on whether or not they are wanted or how they are conceived?

This question coming from someone who in real life and here on the internet supports of culture of death? Perhaps you've changed your stance in regards to "what consenting people do in private is no one's business"?

Do you realize that your ideology is responsible for over 1,000,000 unborn babies death each year as well as adults who go by your Libertarian ideology of "It's MY body and I can damn well do with it as I please!"?

Making exceptions for rape is doing just that. Regardless of whether or not you are willing to admit it, your position suggests that babies are punishment for women who become pregnant via consensual sex.

I've heard words like that before. Come to think of it the baby murderer that you helped elect said it:

I refuse to label ANY unborn child as punishment or unworthy of life based on the circumstances of their conception.

Wow Sandy, too bad that the Oscars have passed, because that was a first class acting job.

 

[Rusha]

Here is a real life scenario, you make the decision:

You walk into your 11 year old daughter's bedroom who has just found out that she's pregnant after being raped by 20 barbarians (it's highly unlikely that the little girl would ever be able to be impregnated after such savagery, but I'll stick to this scenario).

She's been despondent and is now suicidal because of the pregnancy. You take her to qualified psychologists who state that the child is going to kill herself if the pregnancy is allowed.

It's your choice Sandy: Dead daughter and dead grandchild or just a dead grandchild?

A *qualified* psychologist would not state "if you don't take your daughter to the slaughter house to have your grandchild butchered she WILL kill herself". For someone who claims to be against abortion, you are putting a lot of effort into justifying why a rape victim should be allowed and encouraged to about her unborn child.

 

[Ktoyou]

I'm a student of the Founding Fathers of our country whose conservatism came straight from The Holy Bible.

I've put the doctrine of Libertarianism in the OP on page 1 based on the Libertarian Party Platform.


PREAMBLE

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.
https://www.lp.org/platform


If you don't acknowledge that as true Libertarianism, then make your case.

F! You failed the course.

The American Revolution was the beginning of Liberalism. The reaction against the French Revolution was the beginning of political Conservatism.

Until you know the basics, we shall not hold discourse on Libertarianism; you do not know how to view the subject contextually.

You may reapply next year if become willing to learn.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

A *qualified* psychologist would not state "if you don't take your daughter to the slaughter house to have your grandchild butchered she WILL kill herself". For someone who claims to be against abortion, you are putting a lot of effort into justifying why a rape victim should be allowed and encouraged to about her unborn child.

Tell us why you voted for this man?

Barack Obama Would Veto Pro-Life Bill to Ban Abortions After 20 Weeks
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/05/13/...ro-life-bill-to-ban-abortions-after-20-weeks/

This is a my favorite part when discussing abortion with supposed pro life Libertarians. I ask them the basis for being against abortion (i.e. because God says it wrong to murder, etc.). Of course if they were to use God as their basis for morality then they would be against sexual sins like homosexuality, pornography and adultery.

If you run across an honest Libertarian, they'll tell you:

"Because the baby can't give consent".

It all comes down to consent in their moral relativist minds.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

I've put the doctrine of Libertarianism in the OP on page 1 based on the Libertarian Party Platform.

PREAMBLE

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.
https://www.lp.org/platform


If you don't acknowledge that as true Libertarianism, then make your case.

F! You failed the course.

Who made you the teacher in this thread?

The American Revolution was the beginning of Liberalism...

The same revolution where it was established that as Americans our rights come from God?

Until you know the basics, we shall not hold discourse on Libertarianism; you do not know how to view the subject contextually.

It was a simple request on my part: Define Libertarianism, and if it's a different concept that what the LP Platform states, then explain how it is different.

You may reapply next year if become willing to learn.

I've studied godless Libertarian doctrine for years, there's nothing more to "learn" about it.

 

[Ktoyou]

Sorry kid, you are not ready for the advanced course.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Speaking of consent: I posted this article in my WHMBR! Part 4 thread. Since Libertarianism bases it's morality on consent, I'll share it here and hopefully will have a Libertarian discuss the article with me.

The limits of consent

Consent only has value when it is based on knowledge of what is truly good for us.
- See more at: http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/the-limits-of-consent#sthash.SD0bgc3b.dpuf

 

[Rusha]

This is a my favorite part when discussing abortion with supposed pro life Libertarians. I ask them the basis for being against abortion (i.e. because God says it wrong to murder, etc.). Of course if they were to use God as their basis for morality then they would be against sexual sins like homosexuality, pornography and adultery

I too love exposing supposed pro-life advocates. Remember this one?

http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post3548047

Before you go moving the goal posts any further Aaron, let's put a face behind your story.

SWEDEN: 20 Muslim invaders gang rape 11-year-old Swedish girl in public bathhouse

The things one sees on TOL: a pagan talking about morality with a Christian.

Yes, Aaron, if an 11 year of girl (who must be less than 5 feet tall and probably weighs less than a hundred pounds) is forced through law to carry a baby to term, which most likely would kll her, that would be an immoral act.

Angel4Truth addressed that in Lighthouse's rape thread.

Do you want to be responsible for that little girls death Aaron?

Per your own post, you would support abortion in the above scenario. You have made the claim that the mother would die which is something I would expect from a pro-abortion advocate.

Either the life of the unborn is ALWAYS valuable and should be protected or it isn't. Which is it?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

This is a my favorite part when discussing abortion with supposed pro life Libertarians. I ask them the basis for being against abortion (i.e. because God says it wrong to murder, etc.). Of course if they were to use God as their basis for morality then they would be against sexual sins like homosexuality, pornography and adultery

I too love exposing supposed pro-life advocates. Remember this one?

Yes, Aaron, if an 11 year of girl (who must be less than 5 feet tall and probably weighs less than a hundred pounds) is forced through law to carry a baby to term, which most likely would kill her, that would be an immoral act.

Per your own post, you would support abortion in the above scenario. You have made the claim that the mother would die which is something I would expect from a pro-abortion advocate.

Either the life of the unborn is ALWAYS valuable and should be protected or it isn't. Which is it?

Evidently you seem to think that the life of the mother isn't valuable. It's been awhile since I took 9th grade biology Sandy, but as I recall, if the mother dies, so does the baby.

BTW Sandy, why is it wrong to murder? You can't use God's Word as your basis because then you'd have to denounce homosexuality, and you and I both know that aint ever gonna happen. Come on Sandy, give us that good ole Libertarian reasoning that I hear so often:

"Because the baby can't consent".

Now let's return to reality Sandy and what the barbarian that you voted for did in his first 4 years as President.

Obama Presided Over 4.8 Million Abortions During His Presidency

Since Barack Obama took office in January 2009, more than four million unborn human beings have been killed, violently, by abortionists.

With the annual number of abortions around 1.2 million per year, the four years of the Obama term will end with the loss of 4.8 million innocent unborn babies’ lives.

Barack Obama could not have saved every one of those babies during his term. But he could have saved many of them.

Instead, he championed policies to make the tragedy worse.
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/11/01/obama-presided-over-4-8-million-abortions-during-his-presidency/

 

[Rusha]

Evidently you seem to think that the life of the mother isn't valuable. It's been awhile since I took 9th grade biology Sandy, but as I recall, if the mother dies, so does the baby.

This is the type of accusation I would expect from someone promoting abortion .... "IF you don't agree with the mother aborting, you don't value the mother's life".

Someone who is actually prolife and against abortion understands that the priority should be to save BOTH lives rather than intentionally killing the unborn baby.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

This is the type of accusation I would expect from someone promoting abortion .... "IF you don't agree with the mother aborting, you don't value the mother's life".

But you vote for political candidates who run on political party platforms that without even flinching promote abortion on demand.

Someone who is actually prolife and against abortion understands that the priority should be to save BOTH lives rather than intentionally killing the unborn baby.

Think about that this Nov. when you're at the ballot box and vote for Hilary Clinton who runs on an abortion on demand platform.

 

[Rusha]

But you vote for political candidates who run on political party platforms that without even flinching promote abortion on demand.

It's amusing that you make such a statement repeatedly without a quote of mine to back up your accusation. Way to distract from the fact that you advocated FOR abortion based on certain criteria:

Evidently you seem to think that the life of the mother isn't valuable. It's been awhile since I took 9th grade biology Sandy, but as I recall, if the mother dies, so does the baby.

There is no good reason to make the *assumption* that the mother would die. Again, you are the last person to accuse someone else of being pro-abortion.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post3548047

Before you go moving the goal posts any further Aaron, let's put a face behind your story.

SWEDEN: 20 Muslim invaders gang rape 11-year-old Swedish girl in public bathhouse

The things one sees on TOL: a pagan talking about morality with a Christian.

Yes, Aaron, if an 11 year of girl (who must be less than 5 feet tall and probably weighs less than a hundred pounds) is forced through law to carry a baby to term, which most likely would kll her, that would be an immoral act.

Angel4Truth addressed that in Lighthouse's rape thread.

Do you want to be responsible for that little girls death Aaron?

Before you go moving the goal posts any further Aaron, let's put a face behind your story.

SWEDEN: 20 Muslim invaders gang rape 11-year-old Swedish girl in public bathhouse

The things one sees on TOL: a pagan talking about morality with a Christian.

Yes, Aaron, if an 11 year of girl (who must be less than 5 feet tall and probably weighs less than a hundred pounds) is forced through law to carry a baby to term, which most likely would kll her, that would be an immoral act.

Angel4Truth addressed that in Lighthouse's rape thread.

Do you want to be responsible for that little girls death Aaron?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

But you vote for political candidates who run on political party platforms that without even flinching promote abortion on demand.

It's amusing that you make such a statement repeatedly without a quote of mine to back up your accusation. Way to distract from the fact that you advocated FOR abortion based on certain criteria:

All you have to say is "I did not vote for Barack Hussein Obama who ran on the abortion on demand Democratic Party ticket and I will not vote for Hilary Clinton who is as well" and I'll believe you Sandy, truly I will.

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Evidently you seem to think that the life of the mother isn't valuable. It's been awhile since I took 9th grade biology Sandy, but as I recall, if the mother dies, so does the baby.

There is no good reason to make the *assumption* that the mother would die. Again, you are the last person to accuse someone else of being pro-abortion.

In the scenario the little 11 year old girl that was brutally raped by 20 Muslim barbarians became pregnant and was suicidal . Her parents took her to State certified psychologists who acknowledged that she would kill herself if she went through with the pregnancy.

How about we work together on ridding our nation of the 99.9% of abortions that are done out of convenience and worry about the .1% that are done because the mothers life in endangered?

Of course voting for Hilary Clinton and the abortion on demand Democratic Party ticket isn't the way to achieve that goal nor is having the 'consensual morality' ideology Sandy.

If you want a culture of life Sandy, you have to walk the walk and not talk the talk.

 

[Rusha]

In the scenario the little 11 year old girl that was brutally raped by 20 Muslim barbarians became pregnant and was suicidal . Her parents took her to State certified psychologists who acknowledged that she would kill herself if she went through with the pregnancy.

How about we work together on ridding our nation of the 99.9% of abortions that are done out of convenience and worry about the .1% that are done because the mothers life in endangered?

The only reason you are on board with the *opinion* of a certified state psychologist is because his/her opinion agrees with you. Unless you are claiming they had a crystal ball, they have no way of knowing that a pregnancy would cause someone to commit suicide.

BTW ... if the same psychologist were to tell you that reparative therapy would cause suicide, you would call them a quack. You only agree this time because the supposed quack agrees with your unfounded opinion. The only thing that can be known is that if a mother aborts, her unborn baby will die.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

All you have to say is "I did not vote for Barack Hussein Obama who ran on the abortion on demand Democratic Party ticket and I will not vote for Hilary Clinton who is as well" and I'll believe you Sandy, truly I will.

The only reason you are on board with the *opinion* of a certified state psychologist is because his/her opinion agrees with you. Unless you are claiming they had a crystal ball, they have no way of knowing that a pregnancy would cause someone to commit suicide.

BTW ... if the same psychologist were to tell you that reparative therapy would cause suicide, you would call them a quack. You only agree this time because the supposed quack agrees with your unfounded opinion. The only thing that can be known is that if a mother aborts, her unborn baby will die.

I see that you have no problem with the slaughter of the unborn continuing. Your lack of an answer shows that you have voted for the most pro abortion President in US history and that you will vote for his Democratic predecessor as well.

Again: Around 99% of abortions are done out of convenience, not because the mother's life is endangered.

Until you acknowledge that this doctrine is harmful to not only the individuals who believe and act on it, but to others as well, you'll continue to be a part of the problem:

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...of-Libertarianism/page9&p=4654777#post4654777

There are always victims to immoral actions: Be it consensual out of wedlock sex, homosexuality, recreational drug use, pornography or prostitution to name a few.

Regarding abortion laws: Once our culture changes to value human life (you can pass abortion laws and still have a culture of death), then this would be a great role model for the US:

Senegal
Legislation based on an 1810 penal code makes abortion illegal in Senegal except to save the mother’s life. For a woman to qualify for an abortion, two physicians must concur that her life is in danger and one of these physicians must be on a court-approved list.
http://www.pewforum.org/2008/09/30/abortion-laws-around-the-world/

 

[patrick jane]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior

All you have to say is "I did not vote for Barack Hussein Obama who ran on the abortion on demand Democratic Party ticket and I will not vote for Hilary Clinton who is as well" and I'll believe you Sandy, truly I will.
I see that you have no problem with the slaughter of the unborn continuing. Your lack of an answer shows that you have voted for the most pro abortion President in US history and that you will vote for his Democratic predecessor as well.

It looks like Rusha votes Democrat, but Republicans are Pro Life

 

[Rusha]

It looks like Rusha votes Democrat, but Republicans are Pro Life

Trump is pro-abortion ... so feel free to apply your analogy to yourself.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

It looks like Rusha votes Democrat, but Republicans are Pro Life

Your candidate for President said this 16 years ago:

 

[Rusha]

All you have to say is

I have already addressed your double standard in regards to abortion. You allow for exceptions in regards to abortion based on the circumstances of the unborn baby's conception. I value all unborn babies ... though please continue to pretend you do not understand the difference.

 

[patrick jane]

Your candidate for President said this 17 years ago:

Trump clearly says he hates the concept of abortion and everything about it. That was 17 years ago and now he still hates it and will ban it if possible


Trump Train