The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Epoisses]

I see what you mean, however works are a part of salvation. To try and say "works are a product of faith," is not promoting faith alone. In such a presentation, faith + works = salvation, by saying works are a product of faith, you alter the equation, faith=salvation + works. Logically, this doesn't make sense. Or, you ignore part of the equation, rendering faith=salvation. But in doing this, you are ignoring biblical evidence that specifically states that faith alone is false (James 2, and the entirety of James for that matter).

So to say that works are for Catholics and carnal Christians is a false application. Since they are adhering to faith+works, which is biblically supported.

As for the personal aspect, I was a Calvinistic Baptist. There was no "pretending." The difference was, in college, I truly read and studied the Bible (since it was the highest authority on earth) as it was, free of doctrinal bias. Deriving doctrine from the Scriptures led me to where I am today. (Reading the Bible made me Catholic). I know this is irrelevant to the topic, but I wanted to have the full disclosure, so that you would know my understanding of both Protestant and Catholic doctrines and interpretations.


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You didn't read my earlier post where I said believers produce works of the Spirit/love and carnal Christians like yourself produce works of the flesh/law. You're a fleshly Christian like most fake Christians nowadays who take the name of Christ but deny him in their unbelieving lives.

 

[KingdomRose]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:8

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

He did die for the redemption of the world of mankind. (John 3:16) "Whosoever" means that ANYONE who exercises belief in what Jesus did could live forever.

The "religious world" is in error, however, if they say that mankind is saved "without exception." The Bible doesn't say that. At all. A person has to ACCEPT what he did and ACT ON IT. If not, a person will not be saved, according to the Bible.

"God sent forth his Son into the world...for the world to be saved through him." (John 3:17)

"He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him." (John 3:36)

 

[KingdomRose]

Where does this say that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception ?

It doesn't, but it says that Jesus died for the whole world & not "just his church." The whole world has the freedom of will to choose whether or not individuals will accept Jesus' sacrifice.

 

[meshak]

"God sent forth his Son into the world...for the world to be saved through him." (John 3:17)

"He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him." (John 3:36)

Those clear statements just escapes them.

 

[beloved57]

He did die for the redemption of the world of mankind. (John 3:16) "Whosoever" means that ANYONE who exercises belief in what Jesus did could live forever.

The "religious world" is in error, however, if they say that mankind is saved "without exception." The Bible doesn't say that. At all. A person has to ACCEPT what he did and ACT ON IT. If not, a person will not be saved, according to the Bible.

"God sent forth his Son into the world...for the world to be saved through him." (John 3:17)

"He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him." (John 3:36)

False teaching.

 

[beloved57]

It doesn't, but it says that Jesus died for the whole world & not "just his church." The whole world has the freedom of will to choose whether or not individuals will accept Jesus' sacrifice.

I know it doesn't, because it's not true!

 

[KingdomRose]

False teaching.

Can you explain WHY it is a false teaching, instead of just labeling it as such? Did Jesus go around telling the scribes and Pharisees that they were "false teachers" without informing them just WHY he thought so?

If what I said is false, tell me why. Why do you disagree with John 3:16,17 and John 3:36? Are those scriptures "false teaching"?

 

[jsanford108]

You didn't read my earlier post where I said believers produce works of the Spirit/love and carnal Christians like yourself produce works of the flesh/law. You're a fleshly Christian like most fake Christians nowadays who take the name of Christ but deny him in their unbelieving lives.

So you would classify acts of charity as "works of the flesh/law?"

And how, in any capacity, have I "denied Christ, in my unbelieving life?" Please elaborate.


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[beloved57]

Can you explain WHY it is a false teaching, instead of just labeling it as such? Did Jesus go around telling the scribes and Pharisees that they were "false teachers" without informing them just WHY he thought so?

If what I said is false, tell me why. Why do you disagree with John 3:16,17 and John 3:36? Are those scriptures "false teaching"?

That's your responsibility to explain what you posted, not mine. The scripture quoted is fine, your comments apart from scripture is the false teaching.

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[beloved57]

Christ Himself specifically says who He died for ! The Sheep, His Sheep !

Jn 10:11-15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

 

[Nanja]

Christ Himself specifically says who He died for ! The Sheep, His Sheep !

Jn 10:11-15

[FONT=&]11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.[/FONT]

And from Jesus' Words here We know that all men are not His Sheep.

John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[beloved57]

And from Jesus' Words here We know that all men are not His Sheep.

John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Exactly !

 

[beloved57]

Another scripture that shows limited atonement, that Christ's death wasnt for all without exception !

2 Cor 8:9

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

The becoming poor here refers to His coming to die as in Phil 2:5-8, and Paul says that "it was for your sakes " that He did this ! The your sakes being the Church, the Body of Christ 1 Cor 1:1-2

Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The same Church spoken of here Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

[Epoisses]

Christ's atonement was unlimited and actually redeemed every man, woman and child who has ever lived. All people have been given an inheritance in Christ whether they are ultimately lost or saved. The greatest agony of hell will be the realization of the lost that they were redeemed in Christ but they threw it all away for a life of sin and death.

 

[Nanja]

Another scripture that shows limited atonement, that Christ's death wasnt for all without exception !

2 Cor 8:9

[FONT="]For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was [/FONT][/COLOR][B]rich, [U]yet for your sakes he became [/U][B][U]poor[/U], that ye through his poverty might be [B]rich.[/B][/B][/B]

The becoming poor here refers to His coming to die as in Phil 2:5-8, and Paul says that "it was for your sakes " that He did this ! The your sakes being the Church, the Body of Christ 1 Cor 1:1-2

[/SIZE][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,[/FONT]
[FONT="]2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The same Church spoken of here Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;[/FONT]

Amen! Christ shed His Blood for the World of His Church Eph. 5:25, a Covenant People who shared a preexisting Union together from Everlasting Eph. 1:4-7, so that Legally Her sins were charged to Christ Her Head instead of to her Eph. 5:23. And we know that His Church, the Election of Grace, is comprised of only a chosen remnant of all mankind whoever lived upon the face of the earth, whether jew or gentile Deut. 7:6-7.

 

[beloved57]

Amen! Christ shed His Blood for the World of His Church Eph. 5:25, a Covenant People who shared a preexisting Union together from Everlasting Eph. 1:4-7, so that Legally Her sins were charged to Christ Her Head instead of to her Eph. 5:23. And we know that His Church, the Election of Grace, is comprised of only a chosen remnant of all mankind whoever lived upon the face of the earth, whether jew or gentile Deut. 7:6-7.

Amen Sister!

 

[Nanja]

Thats why Isa says that the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His Hand Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

In the Hand of the resurrected Christ, the Pleasure of the LORD [ His Father ] shall prosper, be of good success..

That means the Fathers desires shall prosper in His Hand. The word pleasure is the hebrew word:

chephets and means:

delight, pleasure
a) delight
b) desire, longing
c) the good pleasure
d) that in which one takes delight

That means, the Fathers desire for all men to be saved as in 1 tim 2:

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The word will here is the greek word
thelō and means:

to will, have in mind, intend

a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose

b) to desire, to wish

c) to love

1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

d) to take delight in, have pleasure

Now notice the similarities in this definition and the one for pleasure in Isa 53:10 !

This Tells me that Christ should prosper in accomplishing the Fathers will in ensuring that the all men the Father desires to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth.

So thats the obligation of the resurrected Christ to see to it that its done. And scripture says He shall prosper, which word means:

Its the hebrew word

tsalach :

Qal) to rush

2) to advance, prosper, make progress, succeed, be profitable

a) (Qal) to prosper

b) (Hiphil)
1) to make prosperous, bring to successful issue, cause to prosper

2) to show or experience prosperity, prosper

In other words, none shall be lost as stated in Jn 6:38

38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

So, if any in 1 Tim 2:4 do not be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth as the Father desires, then Christ has failed His Fathers will and not prospered in the pleasure of the Lord as stated in Isa 53 10

My conclusion is that Christ has prospered, and all who perish in their sins, it just was not Gods will for them to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth...

So Christ dying for all without exception is a myth..

Exactly !

TY for this excellent multi-part study:

Scriptures that show the efficaciousness of the death of Christ!

 

[beloved57]

Exactly !

TY for this excellent multi-part study:

Scriptures that show the efficaciousness of the death of Christ!

Thank God that we have Ears to hear these Truths in these days of apostacy !

 

[Nanja]

Thank God that we have Ears to hear these Truths in these days of apostacy !

Thanking and Praising Him always, Brother!

It's the effect of our being chosen in Christ from Everlasting to Salvation, that we are equipped Spiritually by being Given Hearing Ears to believe these Truths 2 Thes. 2:13.

And Yes, these are surely the days of Apostacy, even the very last of days.

The world's churches are all apostate, and an enemy of the Gospel of God's Grace.

They all promote a false gospel of works!

There is None that preach the unadulterated Gospel of God's Grace!

 

[Squeaky]

ALL ALLMOST NEVER MEANS ALL (IN THE CARNAL SENSE)
Matt 5:14-16
14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 6:33-34
33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
John 5:36
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish-- the very works that I do-- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
John 6:39
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 18:11
11 Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"
Heb 2:13
13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
John 6:44-48
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
48 "I am the bread of life.
John 6:65-69
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
John 17:1-2
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 17:6-7
6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
John 17:10-12
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)

XXX All is a figure of speech. We can see that to Jesus all was all those that God had given Him. Which is all those who become Christians and are born again. All those that follow Jesus' example.


Acts 2:47
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Mark 10:45
45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
John 17:12
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 13:1
1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
1Thes 3:11-13
11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
Acts 2:39
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
John 6:37-40
37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
(NKJ)

Mark 10:45
45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
(NKJ)

1 Tim 2:5-6
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
(NKJ)

John 6:39-40
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
(NKJ)