ECT The Most Misunderstood Passage in the Bible--Romans 5:12-18

[Angel4Truth]

I love how some people "forgive" those who don't want it, and don't need it. It isn't my problem that your pride got injured once again. But, I see the way you pat yourself on the back for your obedience...just like God's unTruth always does. Which should be worth a chuckle or two.

Matthew 23:5
All their deeds are done for men to see. They broaden their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels.

Proverbs 20:6
Many a man proclaims his own loyalty, But who can find a trustworthy man?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You did more than just cite a definition. You said it applies to returning a person to their childhood mentality as if that were the same as transforming them into a spiritually new creation.

I never said that! Since you have no intelligent answer to what I said you just set up a straw man which you can knock over!

 

[Interplanner]

Jerry,
why do you think this is the MOST misunderstood passage? Or, what is 2nd?

 

[George Affleck]

That was a very interesting read, George. What it tells me is that sin, itself, was not passed down, but the effects of Adam's sin were. Thank you for taking the time to make some very interesting and convincing points.

If that is so, then have a nice day.

 

[God's Truth]

Matthew 23:5
All their deeds are done for men to see. They broaden their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels.

Proverbs 20:6
Many a man proclaims his own loyalty, But who can find a trustworthy man?

It is never ever shameful to obey Jesus.

Paul boasts in those who obey, and he boasts in himself.

As for a phylactery, I don't were one of those.

 

[glorydaz]

You did more than just cite a definition. You said it applies to returning a person to their childhood mentality as if that were the same as transforming them into a spiritually new creation. There is nothing "new" about reverting to a time when we were controlled my emotions and desires (however innocent that experience was). It is up to you to explain why you say things.

I notice that again you refuse to address the points I have made in rebuttal of your brand new doctrine.

Back to their childhood mentality? Where in the world did your get that idea, certainly not from anything I read in Jerry's post. Perhaps you could point it out.

 

[God's Truth]

Right, God did not hate Esau. It was Esau's descendants (EDOM) God had a "hatred" for, because of how they treated Israel. It's an interesting bit of history there.

Genesis 36:8 Thus dwelt Esau in mount Seir: Esau is Edom.​

The Bible plainly says that God hated Esau because he was without God.

 

[glorydaz]

I never said that! Since you have no intelligent answer to what I said you just set up a straw man which you can knock over!

You certainly didn't say anything like that. I just went through and read the whole thing. :nono:

 

[God's Truth]

God did not hate Esau
it was an idiom " Jacob I loved & Esau I hated" like " give you an inch you take a mile"

You will have to make up your mind to believe or not believe what is plainly written.

God hated Esau. Esau was without God.

Malachi 1:3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."

Romans 9:13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Hebrews 12:16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

 

[God's Truth]

No one is doubting that Jesus saved you... and Jerry isn't bitter... he wants to ensure that "it is finished" retains it's God intended meaning.

To complicate salvation is to lock up the kingdom to others... even if you think it is simple... It is a matter of (Eph. 2:8f ... no added cost... God gives a gift freely as He is God and does things perfectly!)

You are wrong, Jerry is bitter and he DOES say I am not saved.

Pay better attention.

As for the gospel, anyone who preaches against obeying is hindering people from being saved.

 

[God's Truth]

What do you mean first? You just said it Galatians 2 was to whom they were ministering. When in fact, Peter went to the Jews and Gentiles, and Paul went to the Jews and gentiles. Besides Galatians 2 states a gospel for the Jews (circumcision) and one for the gentiles. The circumcision is always what you preach, to obey the letter of the law, including the ceremony. Paul said otherwise. I knew you could not help your self.

Peter went to the Gentiles before Paul did.

They preach the same gospel, just to different nationalities of people.

 

[glorydaz]

The Bible plainly says that God hated Esau because he was without God.

Go study up on it. While you're doing that, ask yourself about Esau's change of heart, and ask yourself why God gave Esau Mr. Seir as a possession, and ask yourself why Esau is Edom, and what God thought of the Edomites, and if the Edomites were made to serve Israel (Jacob) 2 Samuel 8:14KJV hint - Esau never served Jacob, but Edom did have to serve Israel. It's all about the descendants, not the two boys (who ended up putting aside their differences).

This is not what this thread is about, however, so you should start another one if you want to find out about this.

 

[God's Truth]

Go study up on it. While you're doing that, ask yourself about Esau's change of heart, and ask yourself why God gave Esau Mr. Seir as a possession, and ask yourself why Esau is Edom, and what God thought of the Edomites, and if the Edomites were made to serve Israel (Jacob) 2 Samuel 8:14KJV hint - Esau never served Jacob, but Edom did have to serve Israel. It's all about the descendants, not the two boys (who ended up putting aside their differences).

This is not what this thread is about, however, so you should start another one if you want to find out about this.

It is about Esau and his descendants. It is about what the Bible says it is. God hated Esau, he was godless. How on earth do you think you can change God's word to say something else?

 

[glorydaz]

You are wrong, Jerry is bitter and he DOES say I am not saved.

Pay better attention.

As for the gospel, anyone who preaches against obeying is hindering people from being saved.

No, GT, you are the one who is bitter, and lots of us doubt your salvation. You can't claim your own obedience is needed for salvation. Sorry.

 

[God's Truth]

No, GT, you are the one who is bitter, and lots of us doubt your salvation. You can't claim your own obedience is needed for salvation. Sorry.

I couldn't care any less what you are anyone thinks of me. I give scriptures that say we have to obey.

 

[glorydaz]

It is about Esau and his descendants. It is about what the Bible says it is. God hated Esau, he was godless. How on earth do you think you can change God's word to say something else?

Well, you're wrong. Esau IS Edom and it was Edom that terrorized God's chosen people. There were two NATIONS in her womb. Can it get any plainer than that?

It was the NATION (one of the two in Rebekah's womb) that God hated. Read these verses if you aren't too proud to do so.

Ezekiel 25:12 Thus saith the Lord God; Because that Edom hath dealt against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and hath greatly offended, and revenged himself upon them;

Ezekiel 25:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it; and I will make it desolate from Teman; and they of Dedan shall fall by the sword.

Ezekiel 25:14 And I will lay my vengeance upon Edom by the hand of my people Israel: and they shall do in Edom according to mine anger and according to my fury; and they shall know my vengeance, saith the Lord God.

Ezekiel 32:29 There is Edom, her kings, and all her princes, which with their might are laid by them that were slain by the sword: they shall lie with the uncircumcised, and with them that go down to the pit.​

 

[glorydaz]

I couldn't care any less what you are anyone thinks of me. I give scriptures that say we have to obey.

I know. It's the scripture you've ignoreD that will damn you. :nono:

 

[glorydaz]

You will have to make up your mind to believe or not believe what is plainly written.

God hated Esau. Esau was without God.



Hebrews 12:16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

Deceiver. The word is PROFANE. Profane is not godless. It's disrespect for something...or to treat in a vulgar way. In this case it was his birthright. You fall into the common trap of failing to read verses in their context. :nono:

Heb. 12:16-17 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.​

 

[God's Truth]

Deceiver. The word is PROFANE. Profane is not godless. It's disrespect for something...or to treat in a vulgar way. In this case it was his birthright. You fall into the common trap of failing to read verses in their context. :nono:

Heb. 12:16-17 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.​

Profane is godless.

God hated Esau.

I believe God and not you.

 

[God's Truth]

I know. It's the scripture you've ignoreD that will damn you. :nono:

I don't ignore any scripture.