ECT The Most Expected Place to find 'a restored Israel in its land and worship system'

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
The place in the NT where you would most expect a statement about the 'restored land and state' is the end of Hebrews, and the whole letter was going the other direction.

Or, see the thread: The Eternal Covenant (in Heb 13)
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The place in the NT where you would most expect a statement about the 'restored land and state' is the end of Hebrews, and the whole letter was going the other direction.

Or, see the thread: The Eternal Covenant (in Heb 13)
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If the "NT" is concerned with filling up the City and the Heavens, I would not expect anything about the LAND.

But there is nothing in the "NT" that cancels out the promises of the Old: LAND, LAND, LAND!

Quit fighting against the Kingdom. Let it be. Let God do what he said he would do.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
Can't. That'd mean those Zionist Jews win.
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Fighting against the kingdom? How could you miss sooooo much. Where in the world do you get the idea that the reign of Christ is not something we are involved in now? Not from those 100s of uses of the term in the NT, just from 'system-first' thinking.

You say there is nothing in the NT that cancels it. Do you have no sense of this when you read Hebrews? They weren't looking to Israel or to Persia but to the NHNE in which there are no race, class, gender distinctions.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
If the "NT" is concerned with filling up the City and the Heavens, I would not expect anything about the LAND.

But there is nothing in the "NT" that cancels out the promises of the Old: LAND, LAND, LAND!

Quit fighting against the Kingdom. Let it be. Let God do what he said he would do.
Click to expand...



There is not the least concern about the Land as a promise in the NT. That is historically ridiculous. They including Christ are concerned that the land survive the episode of the revolt, but it wouldn't and did not. Those were the buggers 'fighting for the kingdom.' They were Zionists in the supernatural sense. which was all passe.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
Holfordianism.
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What a ridiculous and ignorant accusation. Here you are on the piddly internet forum and in an absurdly safe position, criticising a true scholar who knew he had to stop Payne.

When you have stopped a Dawkins or a Harris, let me know. Shame on you.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
What a ridiculous and ignorant accusation. Here you are on the piddly internet forum and in an absurdly safe position, criticising a true scholar who knew he had to stop Payne.

When you have stopped a Dawkins or a Harris, let me know. Shame on you.
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When you rebuke Tet for labeling us with Darby, let me know.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
There is not the least concern about the Land as a promise in the NT. That is historically ridiculous. They including Christ are concerned that the land survive the episode of the revolt, but it wouldn't and did not. Those were the buggers 'fighting for the kingdom.' They were Zionists in the supernatural sense. which was all passe.
Click to expand...

But there is nothing in the "NT" that cancels out the promises of the Old: LAND, LAND, LAND!

Become a believer, leave skepticism behind.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Fighting against the kingdom? How could you miss sooooo much. Where in the world do you get the idea that the reign of Christ is not something we are involved in now? Not from those 100s of uses of the term in the NT, just from 'system-first' thinking.

You say there is nothing in the NT that cancels it. Do you have no sense of this when you read Hebrews? They weren't looking to Israel or to Persia but to the NHNE in which there are no race, class, gender distinctions.
Click to expand...
:chuckle:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
But there is nothing in the "NT" that cancels out the promises of the Old: LAND, LAND, LAND!

Become a believer, leave skepticism behind.
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Skepticism? Nothing in the truth basis of the Bible hinges on Israel in its land. The message of the Gospel is true because of what the resurrection proves. The resurrection proves that Christ's work for our justification was accepted by heaven, and he was given his throne.

His reign has an unusual power:

"In the day of your power, your people will volunteer freely", Ps 110.

Those people down through time who have given themselves to the Christian mission are the proof of that.

But the resurrection was also the fulfillment of all that was promised to the fathers (Acts 13 unless you don't read the Bible), which is proof that the Promise always was the mission of the Gospel, since first given in Gen 3, where we are introduced to the Seed.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
I believe the prophets when they say land.
You're a skeptic.
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It's never the land without the outpouring of the Spirit, which is why Peter quotes that in Acts 2. Some people are so disturbed by what Peter did there, that they have claimed it was one of his 'falling-aways'.

The OT is fulfilled in Christ. To say "in Christ" means to include his mission and people at work in his mission and those becoming believers. There is no separate thing going on for Israel; and nothing goes on in Israel unless it is Judaism, and you know what Gal, Col and Hebrews say about that.

You need to spend 10x more getting background on the NT than posting.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
It's never the land without the outpouring of the Spirit, which is why Peter quotes that in Acts 2. Some people are so disturbed by what Peter did there, that they have claimed it was one of his 'falling-aways'.

The OT is fulfilled in Christ. To say "in Christ" means to include his mission and people at work in his mission and those becoming believers. There is no separate thing going on for Israel; and nothing goes on in Israel unless it is Judaism, and you know what Gal, Col and Hebrews say about that.

You need to spend 10x more getting background on the NT than posting.
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:chuckle:

Holfordian response, saying nothing.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Is Christ the new heaven and new earth?
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Great question. It is not as material as we might think. God and Christ are its temple and light, aren't they? Rev 21.

More practically, the believer who 'sides' neither with circ nor uncirc is the new creation (definite article in the grammar), Gal 6.

Back to Christ specifically: 'if anyone is in Christ the new creation, the old is gone, the new things have come.' This passage is much more about Christ than individual Christians in the original than most translations show. 2 Cor 5.

I believe there are bodies in glory, but glorification does not mean there is a world like we now know.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Great question. It is not as material as we might think. God and Christ are its temple and light, aren't they? Rev 21.

More practically, the believer who 'sides' neither with circ nor uncirc is the new creation (definite article in the grammar), Gal 6.

Back to Christ specifically: 'if anyone is in Christ the new creation, the old is gone, the new things have come.' This passage is much more about Christ than individual Christians in the original than most translations show. 2 Cor 5.

I believe there are bodies in glory, but glorification does not mean there is a world like we now know.
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So, is he?
 
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