The Most Dangerous Teaching

[God's Truth]

He does if we talk to Him and listen to what He says.

It is written in the Bible.

No, our obedience is a product of our faith, not the source of our salvation.

Jesus tells us what to do to get saved. We don’t get saved unless we do what he says. He is the Way. You have to do what the way says and not just hearers. You have seen these words have you not?

Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

John 13:17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Jesus is the source of our salvation and it is up to Him to decide whether He wants us to be in the kingdom with Him.
Our duty is to find out what standard Jesus is using to evaluate us.

Again, Jesus tells us what to do.

Many people have no clue what Jesus wants from us.
The solution is to discuss it with Him.
If you won't talk to Jesus about what He wants, there is no way for you to know.

It’s in the Bible.

 

[genuineoriginal]

For all those trying desperately to save yourselves - to justify yourselves through works - how is that working out for you?

You are mistakenly thinking about the Pharisee instead of the publican from this story:

Luke 18:10-14 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.​

The Pharisee is unrepentant, much like the "faith alone" crowd.
The publican is the one that knows that he must change his ways because of what God sees in him.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Jesus doesn't say we have to repent for obeying. That would be ludicrous.

He does find out witty inventions.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you even read what you type? I mean seriously. I say if one doesn't believe, HE/SHE will NEVER obey. The disobedience is the proof you don't believe.

You are dreaming.

Jesus says why do you call me Lord and don't do what I say?

They believe but didn't obey.

If you can willfully and knowingly sin against the will of God with no conviction, no compunction, and no remorse, you need to get saved.

Well good for you for seeing that we have to OBEY to get saved.

Do you get it now?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I say if one doesn't believe, HE/SHE will NEVER obey. The disobedience is the proof you don't believe.

And yet the "faith alone" crowd thinks that you disobey with impunity without compromising your belief.

If you can willfully and knowingly sin against the will of God with no conviction, no compunction, and no remorse, you need to get saved.

Exactly!

 

[genuineoriginal]

It is written in the Bible.

Don't forget that the scribes were experts in what is written in the Bible but still got it wrong because they relied on their own understanding.

 

[glorydaz]

I also choose to believe what the Bible says.
However, the verse you mention from Romans 3 is being used by you to contradict what Paul just got done stating in Romans 2.

Romans 2:2-11 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.​

So who is right?
Paul in Romans 2 or Paul in Romans 3?

Romans is called a Road for a reason. You're given truths as you go....truth upon truth upon truth.

Paul is not saying one can be justified by trying.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm wondering what He says, and why you don't always understand what He's telling you to do.

Jesus reveals himself to those who obey him.

When I said I obeyed before I understood what he meant, it was before I was saved. After I obeyed and was saved, then he gave me understanding.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Paul is not saying one can be justified by trying.

Paul is clearly stating that God will judge us by our deeds.
If you ignore that simple fact, then you will never understand what Paul is trying to convey in the rest of Romans.

 

[meshak]

Many people have no clue what Jesus wants from us.
The solution is to discuss it with Him.
If you won't talk to Jesus about what He wants, there is no way for you to know.

how do you discuss with Him?

do you know the secret?

 

[God's Truth]

Don't forget that the scribes were experts in what is written in the Bible but still got it wrong because they relied on their own understanding.

They didn't have faith and they didn't obey.

They didn't get baptized by John, the baptism of repentance.

Not only that, Jesus said they didn't practice what they preached/they didn't obey.

 

[genuineoriginal]

They didn't have faith and they didn't obey.

They didn't get baptized by John, the baptism of repentance.

Not only that, Jesus said they didn't practice what they preached/they didn't obey.

My point is that it takes more than reading the words to understand the Bible.
Maybe you can guess what else is needed?

Spoiler

John 16:13 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

 

[God's Truth]

My point is that it takes more than reading the words to understand the Bible.
Maybe you can guess what else is needed?

Spoiler

John 16:13 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

We get the Holy Spirit and understanding by obeying.

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding. Acknowledge him in all your ways, and he will make your paths straight.

Proverbs 28:5 Evildoers do not understand what is right, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully

Proverbs 3:32 for one who goes astray is an abomination to the LORD, but he reveals his intimate counsel to the upright

Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

 

[drbrumley]

You are dreaming.

Hardly!

Jesus says why do you call me Lord and don't do what I say?

Wow, the answer is right there in front of you in your quote. Let me spell it out for you....because that is NOT what Christianity is about. It's about a relationship with the one true savior and God. It isn't an intellectual exercise. Did Judas believe? Nope! He sure didn't. Sure, he knew Jesus, ate dinner with him every day for three years. Point is, his motives for sticking around were not the same as the other 11. So he knew Him, but didn't. He kept the law. He kept all that stuff, like a job. But that isn't what Jesus is about. Kinda like you and this obedience kick your on....it's a job. And it's a job He knows one cannot do. He needs to do it, Thru you! Cause he is the only one who can.

They believe but didn't obey.

Obviously not.

 

[God's Truth]

Hardly!



Wow, the answer is right there in front of you in your quote. Let me spell it out for you....because that is NOT what Christianity is about. It's about a relationship with the one true savior and God. It isn't an intellectual exercise. Did Judas believe? Nope! He sure didn't. Sure, he knew Jesus, ate dinner with him every day for three years. Point is, his motives for sticking around were not the same as the other 11. So he knew Him, but didn't. He kept the law. He kept all that stuff, like a job. But that isn't what Jesus is about. Kinda like you and this obedience kick your on....it's a job. And it's a job He knows one cannot do. He needs to do it, Thru you! Cause he is the only one who can.

You are wrong. Jesus told his disciples TO OBEY and then he would give them the Holy Spirit.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

As for Judas, he did NOT obey.

He didn't repent of his sinning and kept being a thief.

John 12:6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

 

[jsanford108]

Most dangerous doctrine of this day and age is denying the Divinity of Jesus.

I agree completely. That is when one ceases to be "Christian."


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[drbrumley]

And yet the "faith alone" crowd thinks that you disobey with impunity without compromising your belief.

The "faith alone" crowd? Where are they on this board?

I haven't seen one GodsTruth is fighting against that says can they willfully and knowingly sin against the will of God with no conviction, no compunction, and no remorse.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

We get the Holy Spirit and understanding by obeying.

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding. Acknowledge him in all your ways, and he will make your paths straight.

Proverbs 28:5 Evildoers do not understand what is right, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully

Proverbs 3:32 for one who goes astray is an abomination to the LORD, but he reveals his intimate counsel to the upright

Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Luke 11:13 13

If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

 

[God's Truth]

The "faith alone" crowd? Where are they on this board?

I haven't seen one GodsTruth is fighting against that says can they willfully and knowingly sin against the will of God with no conviction, no compunction, and no remorse.

First off, they are going against me for saying they have to obey to get saved; and, they go against me for saying they have to obey to stay saved.


Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

[God's Truth]

Luke 11:13 13

If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

What would you like to say?