The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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Desert Reign

LIFETIME MEMBER
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Caino, Paulie,
I have read parts of the UB. Enough to form the opinion I have of it. As I suggested before, it is well written and doesn't really offend too many people. It has structure and is self-consistent. Those are good positive points. But I do not get inspired from it because I feel it is seeking fundamentally to compromise. I feel it is a lowest common denominator book, if you get the analogy. I can't help having that opinion of it, I hope you don't think worse of me for being honest about what I think of it.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
One Love Eternal.....

One Love Eternal.....

Caino, Paulie,
I have read parts of the UB. Enough to form the opinion I have of it. As I suggested before, it is well written and doesn't really offend too many people. It has structure and is self-consistent. Those are good positive points. But I do not get inspired from it because I feel it is seeking fundamentally to compromise. I feel it is a lowest common denominator book, if you get the analogy. I can't help having that opinion of it, I hope you don't think worse of me for being honest about what I think of it.

No worries DR :)

Its a massive volume with many wonderful parts, some parts dont really interest me, but others certainly hold their own, on a cosmological/philosophical scale. Its a fascinating work. I may be more eclectic than Caino in my expounding of concepts found in the UB, a universalist at heart since I synthesize many schools. Its cosmology is relational and covers all actuals and potentials of existence, heralding the eternal progression of the human soul, in its eternal love affair and adventure with God unto infinity.

Blessings in the One Heart,


pj
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
important points......

important points......

Although He is King of The Universe, He is NOT the universal father.

God is the Father of all. This is part of the goodnews of the kingdom from a Jesusonian (UB) perspective....which heralds the 'Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of Man'. Every soul is a child of God, and the title of 'God' as the 'Universal Father' eternally holds. (while one can impose preconceptions or doctrinal opinions that contest this,...there's really no need to complicate the matter).

He is The Creator, but that doesn't make Him responsible for everyone's sin.

God is Creator or the One Creative Intelligence, yes. No need to assume any responsibility for sin. (again, you're imposing preconceived theological concepts) :)

He only imputes His Righteousness upon those who believe in Him.

According to Paul, perhaps.

You believe in false gods.

Nah.

Your definition of Jesus isn't Christ... it is Jebus, the impostor god.

Sorry,...dont believe in any Jebus, your own 'creation'.

You have a 'form' of Godliness but deny His Power.

Assumption. God is the Only Power and Presence,.....I could deny such, but to no avail.

It is His Power, Alone, to forgive sin.

Thank God he forgives. He also calls us to forgive...or we cannot enjoy the freedom of such forgiveness.

Without His Blood, there is no forgiveness.

According to Paul's gospel perhaps. As we've covered already, the UB discounts the vicarious blood atonement doctrine. Many schools within Spiritualism and other religious faiths do as well having their own reasons to reject such. The metaphor and symbolic power of blood has its place, however....its how we interpret and apply such, that determines its value and power, - for it comes down to personal belief or "faith" in such blood, as Paul contends.

The UB teaches that its most important to DO the will of God as Jesus did, to live a life of faith and love.....as Jesus lived it. Thats whats essential. Being perfect as our Father in heaven in perfect...thats what Jesus was about. Thats all that matters. -different points of view, theological concepts, non-essential points of doctrine....may not matter as much. The UB teaches only the highest values of spiritual integrity and character. It compliments the Bible and expands universal principles to cosmic dimensions.


pj
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
holy concern......

holy concern......

Once again you are able to miss all the truth and make gobbledey-gook out of it. :nono:

All the points are pertinent and quite appropriate :patrol:

The UB stands on its own (reject it or accept it, parts or whole), and its cosmology is quite wonderful, on its own merits, associative values and universe-meanings. I find most interest in its discourse on the nature of 'God', the structure of the cosmos, angelic orders and eternal progression of the soul.....after all,...thats what creation is about,...at least as far as we are concerned, our existence and destiny.

5:1.12 The great God makes direct contact with mortal man and gives a part of his infinite and eternal and incomprehensible self to live and dwell within him. God has embarked upon the eternal adventure with man. If you yield to the leadings of the spiritual forces in you and around you, you cannot fail to attain the high destiny established by a loving God as the universe goal of his ascendant creatures from the evolutionary worlds of space.

Infinite Love only looks upon each offspring of God with utmost concern, unfolding all the divine and human potentials within, which ultimately are 'fused' together as one, when the divine marriage is attained.



pj
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
quintessential being

quintessential being

Caino, Paulie,

I have read parts of the UB. Enough to form the opinion I have of it. As I suggested before, it is well written and doesn't really offend too many people. It has structure and is self-consistent. Those are good positive points. I feel it is a lowest common denominator book, if you get the analogy.

I see 'God' as the common denominator of all, as 'God' is the original, primal and universal reality, the source-potential of all conditions of existence, in time and eternity. The UB has its own wonderful terms and sub-structuring of all levels of universe reality, from the center-source to all differentials within creation. Its a matter of 'reference' :poly:


pj
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Some UB quotes for the day:


P.1434 - §3 A one-eyed person can never hope to visualize depth of perspective. Neither can single-eyed material scientists nor single-eyed spiritual mystics and allegorists correctly visualize and adequately comprehend the true depths of universe reality. All true values of creature experience are concealed in depth of recognition.

P.1673 - §3 On this same occasion the Master talked to the group about the desirability of possessing well-balanced characters. He recognized that it was necessary for most men to devote themselves to the mastery of some vocation, but he deplored all tendency toward overspecialization, toward becoming narrow-minded and circumscribed in life's activities.

P.1725 - §4 Jesus continued to teach the twenty-four, saying: "The heathen are not without excuse when they rage at us. Because their outlook is small and narrow, they are able to concentrate their energies enthusiastically. Their goal is near and more or less visible; wherefore do they strive with valiant and effective execution. You who have professed entrance into the kingdom of heaven are altogether too vacillating and indefinite in your teaching conduct.

P.1130 - §2 While your religion is a matter of personal experience, it is most important that you should be exposed to the knowledge of a vast number of other religious experiences (the diverse interpretations of other and diverse mortals) to the end that you may prevent your religious life from becoming egocentric--circumscribed, selfish, and unsocial.

P.1439 - §3 Animals do not sense time as does man, and even to man, because of his sectional and circumscribed view, time appears as a succession of events; but as man ascends, as he progresses inward, the enlarging view of this event procession is such that it is discerned more and more in its wholeness. That which formerly appeared as a succession of events then will be viewed as a whole and perfectly related cycle; in this way will circular simultaneity increasingly displace the onetime consciousness of the linear sequence of events.



Caino
 
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Aimiel

Well-known member
The UB is filled with half-truths. Half-truths are the same as full-lies... they're worthless. :nono:
 

Caino

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The MISUNDERSTANDING OF SUFFERING—
DISCOURSE ON JOB


148:6.1 It was this same evening at Bethsaida that John also asked Jesus why so many apparently innocent people suffered from so many diseases and experienced so many afflictions. In answering John’s questions, among many other things, the Master said:

148:6.2 “My son, you do not comprehend the meaning of adversity or the mission of suffering. Have you not read that masterpiece of Semitic literature—the Scripture story of the afflictions of Job? Do you not recall how this wonderful parable begins with the recital of the material prosperity of the Lord’s servant? You well remember that Job was blessed with children, wealth, dignity, position, health, and everything else which men value in this temporal life. According to the time-honored teachings of the children of Abraham such material prosperity was all-sufficient evidence of divine favor. But such material possessions and such temporal prosperity do not indicate God’s favor. My Father in heaven loves the poor just as much as the rich; he is no respecter of persons.

148:6.3 “Although transgression of divine law is sooner or later followed by the harvest of punishment, while men certainly eventually do reap what they sow, still you should know that human suffering is not always a punishment for antecedent sin. Both Job and his friends failed to find the true answer for their perplexities. And with the light you now enjoy you would hardly assign to either Satan or God the parts they play in this unique parable. While Job did not, through suffering, find the resolution of his intellectual troubles or the solution of his philosophical difficulties, he did achieve great victories; even in the very face of the breakdown of his theological defenses he ascended to those spiritual heights where he could sincerely say, `I abhor myself'; then was there granted him the salvation of a vision of God. So even through misunderstood suffering, Job ascended to the superhuman plane of moral understanding and spiritual insight. When the suffering servant obtains a vision of God, there follows a soul peace which passes all human understanding.

148:6.4 “The first of Job’s friends, Eliphaz, exhorted the sufferer to exhibit in his afflictions the same fortitude he had prescribed for others during the days of his prosperity. Said this false comforter: `Trust in your religion, Job; remember that it is the wicked and not the righteous who suffer. You must deserve this punishment, else you would not be afflicted. You well know that no man can be righteous in God’s sight. You know that the wicked never really prosper. Anyway, man seems predestined to trouble, and perhaps the Lord is only chastising you for your own good.’ No wonder poor Job failed to get much comfort from such an interpretation of the problem of human suffering.

148:6.5 “But the counsel of his second friend, Bildad, was even more depressing, notwithstanding its soundness from the standpoint of the then accepted theology. Said Bildad: `God cannot be unjust. Your children must have been sinners since they perished; you must be in error, else you would not be so afflicted. And if you are really righteous, God will certainly deliver you from your afflictions. You should learn from the history of God’s dealings with man that the Almighty destroys only the wicked.’

148:6.6 “And then you remember how Job replied to his friends, saying: `I well know that God does not hear my cry for help. How can God be just and at the same time so utterly disregard my innocence? I am learning that I can get no satisfaction from appealing to the Almighty. Cannot you discern that God tolerates the persecution of the good by the wicked? And since man is so weak, what chance has he for consideration at the hands of an omnipotent God? God has made me as I am, and when he thus turns upon me, I am defenseless. And why did God ever create me just to suffer in this miserable fashion?’

148:6.7 “And who can challenge the attitude of Job in view of the counsel of his friends and the erroneous ideas of God which occupied his own mind? Do you not see that Job longed for a human God, that he hungered to commune with a divine Being who knows man’s mortal estate and understands that the just must often suffer in innocence as a part of this first life of the long Paradise ascent? Wherefore has the Son of Man come forth from the Father to live such a life in the flesh that he will be able to comfort and succor all those who must henceforth be called upon to endure the afflictions of Job.

148:6.8 "Job’s third friend, Zophar, then spoke still less comforting words when he said: `You are foolish to claim to be righteous, seeing that you are thus afflicted. But I admit that it is impossible to comprehend God’s ways. Perhaps there is some hidden purpose in all your miseries.’ And when Job had listened to all three of his friends, he appealed directly to God for help, pleading the fact that `man, born of woman, is few of days and full of trouble.’

148:6.9 “Then began the second session with his friends. Eliphaz grew more stern, accusing, and sarcastic. Bildad became indignant at Job’s contempt for his friends. Zophar reiterated his melancholy advice. Job by this time had become disgusted with his friends and appealed again to God, and now he appealed to a just God against the God of injustice embodied in the philosophy of his friends and enshrined even in his own religious attitude. Next Job took refuge in the consolation of a future life in which the inequities of mortal existence may be more justly rectified. Failure to receive help from man drives Job to God. Then ensues the great struggle in his heart between faith and doubt. Finally, the human sufferer begins to see the light of life; his tortured soul ascends to new heights of hope and courage; he may suffer on and even die, but his enlightened soul now utters that cry of triumph, `My Vindicator lives!’

148:6.10 "Job was altogether right when he challenged the doctrine that God afflicts children in order to punish their parents. Job was ever ready to admit that God is righteous, but he longed for some soul-satisfying revelation of the personal character of the Eternal. And that is our mission on earth. No more shall suffering mortals be denied the comfort of knowing the love of God and understanding the mercy of the Father in heaven. While the speech of God spoken from the whirlwind was a majestic concept for the day of its utterance, you have already learned that the Father does not thus reveal himself, but rather that he speaks within the human heart as a still, small voice, saying, `This is the way; walk therein.’ Do you not comprehend that God dwells within you, that he has become what you are that he may make you what he is!”

148:6.11 Then Jesus made this final statement: “The Father in heaven does not willingly afflict the children of men. Man suffers, first, from the accidents of time and the imperfections of the evil of an immature physical existence. Next, he suffers the inexorable consequences of sin—the transgression of the laws of life and light. And finally, man reaps the harvest of his own iniquitous persistence in rebellion against the righteous rule of heaven on earth. But man’s miseries are not a personal visitation of divine judgment. Man can, and will, do much to lessen his temporal sufferings. But once and for all be delivered from the superstition that God afflicts man at the behest of the evil one. Study the Book of Job just to discover how many wrong ideas of God even good men may honestly entertain; and then note how even the painfully afflicted Job found the God of comfort and salvation in spite of such erroneous teachings. At last his faith pierced the clouds of suffering to discern the light of life pouring forth from the Father as healing mercy and everlasting righteousness.”

148:6.12 John pondered these sayings in his heart for many days. His entire afterlife was markedly changed as a result of this conversation with the Master in the garden, and he did much, in later times, to cause the other apostles to change their viewpoints regarding the source, nature, and purpose of commonplace human afflictions. But John never spoke of this conference until after the Master had departed.


Caino
 

bucksplasher

New member
The MISUNDERSTANDING OF SUFFERING—
DISCOURSE ON JOB


148:6.1 It was this same evening at Bethsaida that John also asked Jesus why so many apparently innocent people suffered from so many diseases and experienced so many afflictions. In answering John’s questions, among many other things, the Master said:

148:6.2 “My son, you do not comprehend the meaning of adversity or the mission of suffering. Have you not read that masterpiece of Semitic literature—the Scripture story of the afflictions of Job? Do you not recall how this wonderful parable begins with the recital of the material prosperity of the Lord’s servant? You well remember that Job was blessed with children, wealth, dignity, position, health, and everything else which men value in this temporal life. According to the time-honored teachings of the children of Abraham such material prosperity was all-sufficient evidence of divine favor. But such material possessions and such temporal prosperity do not indicate God’s favor. My Father in heaven loves the poor just as much as the rich; he is no respecter of persons.

148:6.3 “Although transgression of divine law is sooner or later followed by the harvest of punishment, while men certainly eventually do reap what they sow, still you should know that human suffering is not always a punishment for antecedent sin. Both Job and his friends failed to find the true answer for their perplexities. And with the light you now enjoy you would hardly assign to either Satan or God the parts they play in this unique parable. While Job did not, through suffering, find the resolution of his intellectual troubles or the solution of his philosophical difficulties, he did achieve great victories; even in the very face of the breakdown of his theological defenses he ascended to those spiritual heights where he could sincerely say, `I abhor myself'; then was there granted him the salvation of a vision of God. So even through misunderstood suffering, Job ascended to the superhuman plane of moral understanding and spiritual insight. When the suffering servant obtains a vision of God, there follows a soul peace which passes all human understanding.

148:6.4 “The first of Job’s friends, Eliphaz, exhorted the sufferer to exhibit in his afflictions the same fortitude he had prescribed for others during the days of his prosperity. Said this false comforter: `Trust in your religion, Job; remember that it is the wicked and not the righteous who suffer. You must deserve this punishment, else you would not be afflicted. You well know that no man can be righteous in God’s sight. You know that the wicked never really prosper. Anyway, man seems predestined to trouble, and perhaps the Lord is only chastising you for your own good.’ No wonder poor Job failed to get much comfort from such an interpretation of the problem of human suffering.

148:6.5 “But the counsel of his second friend, Bildad, was even more depressing, notwithstanding its soundness from the standpoint of the then accepted theology. Said Bildad: `God cannot be unjust. Your children must have been sinners since they perished; you must be in error, else you would not be so afflicted. And if you are really righteous, God will certainly deliver you from your afflictions. You should learn from the history of God’s dealings with man that the Almighty destroys only the wicked.’

148:6.6 “And then you remember how Job replied to his friends, saying: `I well know that God does not hear my cry for help. How can God be just and at the same time so utterly disregard my innocence? I am learning that I can get no satisfaction from appealing to the Almighty. Cannot you discern that God tolerates the persecution of the good by the wicked? And since man is so weak, what chance has he for consideration at the hands of an omnipotent God? God has made me as I am, and when he thus turns upon me, I am defenseless. And why did God ever create me just to suffer in this miserable fashion?’

148:6.7 “And who can challenge the attitude of Job in view of the counsel of his friends and the erroneous ideas of God which occupied his own mind? Do you not see that Job longed for a human God, that he hungered to commune with a divine Being who knows man’s mortal estate and understands that the just must often suffer in innocence as a part of this first life of the long Paradise ascent? Wherefore has the Son of Man come forth from the Father to live such a life in the flesh that he will be able to comfort and succor all those who must henceforth be called upon to endure the afflictions of Job.

148:6.8 "Job’s third friend, Zophar, then spoke still less comforting words when he said: `You are foolish to claim to be righteous, seeing that you are thus afflicted. But I admit that it is impossible to comprehend God’s ways. Perhaps there is some hidden purpose in all your miseries.’ And when Job had listened to all three of his friends, he appealed directly to God for help, pleading the fact that `man, born of woman, is few of days and full of trouble.’

148:6.9 “Then began the second session with his friends. Eliphaz grew more stern, accusing, and sarcastic. Bildad became indignant at Job’s contempt for his friends. Zophar reiterated his melancholy advice. Job by this time had become disgusted with his friends and appealed again to God, and now he appealed to a just God against the God of injustice embodied in the philosophy of his friends and enshrined even in his own religious attitude. Next Job took refuge in the consolation of a future life in which the inequities of mortal existence may be more justly rectified. Failure to receive help from man drives Job to God. Then ensues the great struggle in his heart between faith and doubt. Finally, the human sufferer begins to see the light of life; his tortured soul ascends to new heights of hope and courage; he may suffer on and even die, but his enlightened soul now utters that cry of triumph, `My Vindicator lives!’

148:6.10 "Job was altogether right when he challenged the doctrine that God afflicts children in order to punish their parents. Job was ever ready to admit that God is righteous, but he longed for some soul-satisfying revelation of the personal character of the Eternal. And that is our mission on earth. No more shall suffering mortals be denied the comfort of knowing the love of God and understanding the mercy of the Father in heaven. While the speech of God spoken from the whirlwind was a majestic concept for the day of its utterance, you have already learned that the Father does not thus reveal himself, but rather that he speaks within the human heart as a still, small voice, saying, `This is the way; walk therein.’ Do you not comprehend that God dwells within you, that he has become what you are that he may make you what he is!”

148:6.11 Then Jesus made this final statement: “The Father in heaven does not willingly afflict the children of men. Man suffers, first, from the accidents of time and the imperfections of the evil of an immature physical existence. Next, he suffers the inexorable consequences of sin—the transgression of the laws of life and light. And finally, man reaps the harvest of his own iniquitous persistence in rebellion against the righteous rule of heaven on earth. But man’s miseries are not a personal visitation of divine judgment. Man can, and will, do much to lessen his temporal sufferings. But once and for all be delivered from the superstition that God afflicts man at the behest of the evil one. Study the Book of Job just to discover how many wrong ideas of God even good men may honestly entertain; and then note how even the painfully afflicted Job found the God of comfort and salvation in spite of such erroneous teachings. At last his faith pierced the clouds of suffering to discern the light of life pouring forth from the Father as healing mercy and everlasting righteousness.”

148:6.12 John pondered these sayings in his heart for many days. His entire afterlife was markedly changed as a result of this conversation with the Master in the garden, and he did much, in later times, to cause the other apostles to change their viewpoints regarding the source, nature, and purpose of commonplace human afflictions. But John never spoke of this conference until after the Master had departed.


Caino

I'm still impressed that Jesus sounds very much like a semi-early modern father of the Church giving a sermon. tWINs
 

Caino

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I'm still impressed that Jesus sounds very much like a semi-early modern father of the Church giving a sermon. tWINs

Smile, Jesus is always present when truth is being spoken weather in the sermon of a "semi-early modern father of the Church" or a newly sober young alcoholic in an AA meeting whose seeking God sincerely perhaps for the first time. After Jesus returned to the right hand of the Father “the spirit of truth” was poured out upon all flesh.

Christ is among us, here, now.


Caino
 

bucksplasher

New member
Smile, Jesus is always present when truth is being spoken weather in the sermon of a "semi-early modern father of the Church" or a newly sober young alcoholic in an AA meeting whose seeking God sincerely perhaps for the first time. After Jesus returned to the right hand of the Father “the spirit of truth” was poured out upon all flesh.

Christ is among us, here, now.


Caino

I certainly agree with the sentence saying Christ is with us now (presently most clearly in the Church He established) but I don't hear or read Christ in the "words in red" that seem to imply that these were His actual words? tWINs
 

Caino

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I certainly agree with the sentence saying Christ is with us now (presently most clearly in the Church He established) but I don't hear or read Christ in the "words in red" that seem to imply that these were His actual words? tWINs

These would be translated from the original language, like the Latin mass. Jesus didn't teach in Latin that we know of.

Jesus didn't establish Christianity; he established a spiritual fellowship that he referred to as "the kingdom of heaven". Jesus never rented a building, bought a building or built a building with donated funds for a socializing purpose.

Jesus said he would establish his kingdom on the rock of faith, the same faith and testimony of God in the hearts of the apostles that allowed them to identify Jesus as "The Son of God". That kingdom idea largely failed because his apostles failed to do what he taught them to do. In the mean time the visible church has become a substitute for the yet to be established "kingdom of heaven" ideal.


Explanation:

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1422#U170_5_0

Caino
 

bucksplasher

New member
These would be translated from the original language, like the Latin mass. Jesus didn't teach in Latin that we know of.

I believe the "original" language of the papers was english? "Both Job and his friends failed to find the true answer for their perplexities". I especially like that Christ has updated His lexicon to 1940's idom.





Jesus didn't establish Christianity; he established a spiritual fellowship that he referred to as "the kingdom of heaven". Jesus never rented a building, bought a building or built a building with donated funds for a socializing purpose.

Jesus said he would establish his kingdom on the rock of faith, the same faith and testimony of God in the hearts of the apostles that allowed them to identify Jesus as "The Son of God". That kingdom idea largely failed because his apostles failed to do what he taught them to do. In the mean time the visible church has become a substitute for the yet to be established "kingdom of heaven" ideal.

And all this time I thought that Jesus had said He would establish His Church on Peter. I must have had an outdated reading.

tWINs
 

Caino

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I believe the "original" language of the papers was english? "Both Job and his friends failed to find the true answer for their perplexities". I especially like that Christ has updated His lexicon to 1940's idom.







And all this time I thought that Jesus had said He would establish His Church on Peter. I must have had an outdated reading.

tWINs


The Urantia revelation came from celestial beings who were then present during the time when Jesus was on the earth. They translated the UB from their own language into English the story that we now have. At times they use direct translations from the language spoken by Jesus and at other times rephrasing into modern language.



121:6.2 In the days of Jesus three languages prevailed in Palestine: The common people spoke some dialect of Aramaic; the priests and rabbis spoke Hebrew; the educated classes and the better strata of Jews in general spoke Greek. The early translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Greek at Alexandria was responsible in no small measure for the subsequent predominance of the Greek wing of Jewish culture and theology. And the writings of the Christian teachers were soon to appear in the same language. The renaissance of Judaism dates from the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures. This was a vital influence which later determined the drift of Paul’s Christian cult toward the West instead of toward the East.


123:2.14 Though Joseph was now assuming the direct responsibility for Jesus’ intellectual and religious education, his mother still interested herself in his home training. She taught him to know and care for the vines and flowers growing about the garden walls which completely surrounded the home plot. She also provided on the roof of the house (the summer bedroom) shallow boxes of sand in which Jesus worked out maps and did much of his early practice at writing Aramaic, Greek, and later on, Hebrew, for in time he learned to read, write, and speak, fluently, all three languages.


123:3.1 Already, with his mother’s help, Jesus had mastered the Galilean dialect of the Aramaic tongue; and now his father began teaching him Greek. Mary spoke little Greek, but Joseph was a fluent speaker of both Aramaic and Greek. The textbook for the study of the Greek language was the copy of the Hebrew scriptures — a complete version of the law and the prophets, including the Psalms — which had been presented to them on leaving Egypt. There were only two complete copies of the Scriptures in Greek in all Nazareth, and the possession of one of them by the carpenter’s family made Joseph’s home a much-sought place and enabled Jesus, as he grew up, to meet an almost endless procession of earnest students and sincere truth seekers. Before this year ended, Jesus had assumed custody of this priceless manuscript, having been told on his sixth birthday that the sacred book had been presented to him by Alexandrian friends and relatives. And in a very short time he could read it readily.



Acknowledgment: In carrying out my commission to restate the teachings and retell the doings of Jesus of Nazareth, I have drawn freely upon all sources of record and planetary information. My ruling motive has been to prepare a record which will not only be enlightening to the generation of men now living, but which may also be helpful to all future generations. From the vast store of information made available to me, I have chosen that which is best suited to the accomplishment of this purpose. As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman. When ideas and concepts of Jesus’ life and teachings have been acceptably expressed by a human mind, I invariably gave preference to such apparently human thought patterns. Although I have sought to adjust the verbal expression the better to conform to our concept of the real meaning and the true import of the Master’s life and teachings, as far as possible, I have adhered to the actual human concept and thought pattern in all my narratives. I well know that those concepts which have had origin in the human mind will prove more acceptable and helpful to all other human minds. When unable to find the necessary concepts in the human records or in human expressions, I have next resorted to the memory resources of my own order of earth creatures, the midwayers. And when that secondary source of information proved inadequate, I have unhesitatingly resorted to the superplanetary sources of information.

121:8.13 The memoranda which I have collected, and from which I have prepared this narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus—aside from the memory of the record of the Apostle Andrew—embrace thought gems and superior concepts of Jesus’ teachings assembled from more than two thousand human beings who have lived on earth from the days of Jesus down to the time of the inditing of these revelations, more correctly restatements. The revelatory permission has been utilized only when the human record and human concepts failed to supply an adequate thought pattern. My revelatory commission forbade me to resort to extrahuman sources of either information or expression until such a time as I could testify that I had failed in my efforts to find the required conceptual expression in purely human sources.

121:8.14 While I, with the collaboration of my eleven associate fellow midwayers and under the supervision of the Melchizedek of record, have portrayed this narrative in accordance with my concept of its effective arrangement and in response to my choice of immediate expression, nevertheless, the majority of the ideas and even some of the effective expressions which I have thus utilized had their origin in the minds of the men of many races who have lived on earth during the intervening generations, right on down to those who are still alive at the time of this undertaking. In many ways I have served more as a collector and editor than as an original narrator. I have unhesitatingly appropriated those ideas and concepts, preferably human, which would enable me to create the most effective portraiture of Jesus’ life, and which would qualify me to restate his matchless teachings in the most strikingly helpful and universally uplifting phraseology. In behalf of the Brotherhood of the United Midwayers of Urantia, I most gratefully acknowledge our indebtedness to all sources of record and concept which have been hereinafter utilized in the further elaboration of our restatement of Jesus’ life on earth.]




Caino
 

Caino

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13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

...."this rock" = "for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven"


19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Contemporary scholars agree (now that the church isn't killing them for challenging the churches presumed authority) that Jesus is not calling Peter the rock, rather its his Father, it's faith, that’s the rock.



Caino
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
the rock of revelation.......

the rock of revelation.......

Contemporary scholars agree (now that the church isn't killing them for challenging the churches presumed authority) that Jesus is not calling Peter the rock, rather its his Father, it's faith, that’s the rock.



Caino

Of course the issue of Petrine supremacy or authority has been challenged elsewhere, and that Jesus was referring to the 'spiritual revelation' and 'Presence' of the Father could be easily assumed, in the context. The recognition that Jesus was divinely charged and ensouled is enough, and accepting his teachings about the Kingdom (the Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of Man) seems sufficient, without a whole heirarchy or ecclesiastical structure delegating authority or dogma, since all true believers who are Spirit-born...belong to one community. Nothing really against 'church' instutitions or dogma, only when it retards spiritual growth and progress.


pj
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
The Four Gospel's

The Four Gospel's

Urantia Book

8. PREVIOUS WRITTEN RECORDS

121:8.1 As far as possible, consistent with our mandate, we have endeavored to utilize and to some extent co-ordinate the existing records having to do with the life of Jesus on Urantia. Although we have enjoyed access to the lost record of the Apostle Andrew and have benefited from the collaboration of a vast host of celestial beings who were on earth during the times of Michael’s bestowal (notably his now Personalized Adjuster), it has been our purpose also to make use of the so-called Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

121:8.2 These New Testament records had their origin in the following circumstances:

121:8.3 1. The Gospel by Mark. John Mark wrote the earliest (excepting the notes of Andrew), briefest, and most simple record of Jesus’ life. He presented the Master as a minister, as man among men. Although Mark was a lad lingering about many of the scenes which he depicts, his record is in reality the Gospel according to Simon Peter. He was early associated with Peter; later with Paul. Mark wrote this record at the instigation of Peter and on the earnest petition of the church at Rome. Knowing how consistently the Master refused to write out his teachings when on earth and in the flesh, Mark, like the apostles and other leading disciples, was hesitant to put them in writing. But Peter felt the church at Rome required the assistance of such a written narrative, and Mark consented to undertake its preparation. He made many notes before Peter died in A.D. 67, and in accordance with the outline approved by Peter and for the church at Rome, he began his writing soon after Peter’s death. The Gospel was completed near the end of A.D. 68. Mark wrote entirely from his own memory and Peter’s memory. The record has since been considerably changed, numerous passages having been taken out and some later matter added at the end to replace the latter one fifth of the original Gospel, which was lost from the first manuscript before it was ever copied. This record by Mark, in conjunction with Andrew’s and Matthew’s notes, was the written basis of all subsequent Gospel narratives which sought to portray the life and teachings of Jesus.

121:8.4 2. The Gospel of Matthew. The so-called Gospel according to Matthew is the record of the Master’s life which was written for the edification of Jewish Christians. The author of this record constantly seeks to show in Jesus’ life that much which he did was that “it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.” Matthew’s Gospel portrays Jesus as a son of David, picturing him as showing great respect for the law and the prophets.

121:8.5 The Apostle Matthew did not write this Gospel. It was written by Isador, one of his disciples, who had as a help in his work not only Matthew’s personal remembrance of these events but also a certain record which the latter had made of the sayings of Jesus directly after the crucifixion. This record by Matthew was written in Aramaic; Isador wrote in Greek. There was no intent to deceive in accrediting the production to Matthew. It was the custom in those days for pupils thus to honor their teachers.

121:8.6 Matthew’s original record was edited and added to in A.D. 40 just before he left Jerusalem to engage in evangelistic preaching. It was a private record, the last copy having been destroyed in the burning of a Syrian monastery in A.D. 416.

121:8.7 Isador escaped from Jerusalem in A.D. 70 after the investment of the city by the armies of Titus, taking with him to Pella a copy of Matthew’s notes. In the year 71, while living at Pella, Isador wrote the Gospel according to Matthew. He also had with him the first four fifths of Mark’s narrative.

121:8.8 3. The Gospel by Luke. Luke, the physician of Antioch in Pisidia, was a gentile convert of Paul, and he wrote quite a different story of the Master’s life. He began to follow Paul and learn of the life and teachings of Jesus in A.D. 47. Luke preserves much of the “grace of the Lord Jesus Christ” in his record as he gathered up these facts from Paul and others. Luke presents the Master as “the friend of publicans and sinners.” He did not formulate his many notes into the Gospel until after Paul’s death. Luke wrote in the year 82 in Achaia. He planned three books dealing with the history of Christ and Christianity but died in A.D. 90 just before he finished the second of these works, the “Acts of the Apostles.”

121:8.9 As material for the compilation of his Gospel, Luke first depended upon the story of Jesus’ life as Paul had related it to him. Luke’s Gospel is, therefore, in some ways the Gospel according to Paul. But Luke had other sources of information. He not only interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the numerous episodes of Jesus’ life which he records, but he also had with him a copy of Mark’s Gospel, that is, the first four fifths, Isador’s narrative, and a brief record made in the year A.D. 78 at Antioch by a believer named Cedes. Luke also had a mutilated and much-edited copy of some notes purported to have been made by the Apostle Andrew.

121:8.10 4. The Gospel of John. The Gospel according to John relates much of Jesus’ work in Judea and around Jerusalem which is not contained in the other records. This is the so-called Gospel according to John the son of Zebedee, and though John did not write it, he did inspire it. Since its first writing it has several times been edited to make it appear to have been written by John himself. When this record was made, John had the other Gospels, and he saw that much had been omitted; accordingly, in the year A.D. 101 he encouraged his associate, Nathan, a Greek Jew from Caesarea, to begin the writing. John supplied his material from memory and by reference to the three records already in existence. He had no written records of his own. The Epistle known as “First John” was written by John himself as a covering letter for the work which Nathan executed under his direction.

121:8.11 All these writers presented honest pictures of Jesus as they saw, remembered, or had learned of him, and as their concepts of these distant events were affected by their subsequent espousal of Paul’s theology of Christianity. And these records, imperfect as they are, have been sufficient to change the course of the history of Urantia for almost two thousand years.



Caino
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
When heaven and earth pass away, Jesus' Word will still stand, ETERNAL.

Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

The Urantia Book of Lies shall pass away and be forgotten.
 
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